Mexico anger high as US Border Patrol kills teen

[71ragtopgoat 23]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100609/ap_ ... -container

 

OLIVIA TORRES and CHRISTOPHER SHERMAN, Associated Press Writers Olivia Torres And Christopher Sherman, Associated Press Writers

[djg0770 481]

We need a little of my father's logic. When I came home and told him something bad happened to me, he asked me what I did to deserve it... Enough of this namby pamby everyone is a victim BS.

 

Throw stones at a cop and get upset when he pulls his gun and fires it? Really?? :roll:

[Krdshrk 3,877]

Sounds like the Mexican cops came to the US side to grab the brass...

[jermz1987 243]

sad, prayers go out to his family.

[njpilot 671]

sad, prayers go out to his family.

 

Actually, I'm not sad. Kid should not have been throwing rocks at Border Patrol Agents!

[71ragtopgoat 23]

sad, prayers go out to his family.

 

Actually, I'm not sad. Kid should not have been throwing rocks at Border Patrol Agents!

Kids do dumb things sometimes. It is sad it ended that way. Justified but sad none the less. I'm sure the agent is racked with grief. I remember being put face down by the PD with a gun pointed right at my head because some jerk in the same group as me had a realistic looking BB gun (colt python ) tucked in his waste after a school dance. I also remember egging cop cars on halloween as a childhood test of guts. You do stupid ,stupid things as a child.

Thankfully times were simpler then. If you got caught you got your butt kicked twice the second time by dad and that was that.

[bbk 188]

I don't see how throwing a rock at someone, to include the authorities, justifies "equal force" as shooting. Military personnel would be/has been prosecuted for such actions, same with DOD defense contractors (in OIF/OEF)-- Blackwater ring any bells.

Sure, I agree that there has to be something done-- but shooting folk or creating another DMZ is not the response.

[71ragtopgoat 23]

I don't see how throwing a rock at someone, to include the authorities, justifies "equal force" as shooting. Military personnel would be/has been prosecuted for such actions, same with DOD defense contractors (in OIF/OEF)-- Blackwater ring any bells.

Sure, I agree that there has to be something done-- but shooting folk or creating another DMZ is not the response.

As someone who from time to time hung around with some very stupid people in my past. I can say with complete conviction that a golf ball sized stone is indeed a deadly weapon. They dont throw pebbles over there. Use of deadly force is warranted is such situations. Without being a wise a$$ I suggest you put a hard hat on and have someone drop a stone from seven feet above on to the hard hat. Then tell me that stone thrown with velocity is not deadly.

[The_Matrix 105]

Getting hit by a rock is quite painful. And it might also kill you. IMO, deadly force is justified. Of course, you can also run.

[bbk 188]

I have had rocks thrown at me, and hit me as I was going by around 30-45MPH (no clue how hard they were thrown). Would I have been justified if I took a certain course of action? No way. Mind you, this was a favorable ROE for that matter.

I'm not saying that the CBP agent's life wasn't at risk, but the necessary force in this situation seemingly isn't to shoot someone in return. Was I there? No, and that's why I'm not saying that this agent's decision making wasn't completely wrong. I'm sure the agent, as noted, feels terrible about the consequences of the actions. However, from the perspective of someone who has had to make decisions in high stress environments, this was not a very smart decision.

[njpilot 671]

I don't see how throwing a rock at someone, to include the authorities, justifies "equal force" as shooting. Military personnel would be/has been prosecuted for such actions, same with DOD defense contractors (in OIF/OEF)-- Blackwater ring any bells.

Sure, I agree that there has to be something done-- but shooting folk or creating another DMZ is not the response.

 

 

Not the first time Border Agents have used deadly force against rock throwers. As others have said, a rock can be a deadly weapon. What if the the Agent didn't take the shot and a rock hit another agent in the head and killed him or blinded him? How would the other Agent feel then when he could have taken out the threat?

 

If this was a 10 year old that's one thing, but a 15 year old should know the consequences of his actions and has the ability to do serious damage with that rock.

[Sigman 41]

How would the story go if it ended up border control agent paralyzed after being struck by rock while detaining illegal immigrants? We probably wouldn't hear about it.

 

I see it as the agent was protecting himself. The kid was warned. It doesn't matter if your 15 or 30. You can still paralyze or kill someone with a rock.

[tbtrout 141]

when I think of rocks the Name Goliath comes to mind. It is a deadly weapon.

 

I am tired of other countries whining about what they do not like about us. If they give back our Aid dollars, I may have a little more respect for them.

[PK90 3,570]

Kill'em all and let God sort'em out.

 

[jermz1987 243]

I agree the kid shouldn't have been throwing rocks, But it is still sad. Look at it this way. What if it had been your 15 year old son who was trying to sneak into Mexico. For what ever reason. Then you learn that he was shot and killed by Mexican boarder police for throwing rocks. I think you would feel differently. I doubt you would say, Oh well he got what he deserved. Not trying to justify his actions. I'm sure someone will say. My son would no better blah blah blah, But remember you cant always be there.

 

 

By the way I'm just using that as an example. So don't sit there and psycho analyze my post and tell me it wouldn't happen because no one wants to sneak into Mexico .LOL

[Guest]

We need a little of my father's logic.

 

 

or ANY logic for that matter...

 

clothe, pay, house, feed, medicate, and otherwise cater till illegal intruders... and expect the number to go down? yeah.. good luck...

 

 

logic says.. if you shoot at enough people who trespass on YOUR property.. word will get around that your property is NOT a good place to be unless ALLOWED in that property..

 

it's sad but sometimes you can just SAY something for SO long.. before you just have to assume the lesson will NOT be learned.. and well doing nothing will not help.. that means SOMETHING has to be done.. we do not let people steal cars.. we do not let people break into house.... and so on.. so why is it that we ACCEPT that illegal immigration is impossible to stop.. that is an ILLOGICAL response to a VERY LOGICAL problem..

 

we put men on the moon.. we are attempting to secure ENTIRE nations.. Iraq.. Afghanistan.. we can shoot a rocket THROUGH A WINDOW.. and you are telling me we can NOT stop Illegal Immigrants from breaching our borders? yeah i get it.. its a lot of area.. i get it you would need a BIG wall.. and maybe a pit.. filled with ticks.. who cares.. whatever it takes.. this is our BORDER.. this is a FREE ENTRANCE to ANYONE.. convicted criminals.. fugitives.. sex offenders.. terrorists... and I am in NO way some "alarmist" or anything.. but I am just saying.. it is grossly unreasonable for us as citizens to accept.. that it is impossible to secure the border.. OF OUR OWN COUNTRY..

 

If we can NOT secure our borders.. the TROOPS should COME HOME and be STATIONED there to do it.. we have no right securing ANOTHER nation when our OWN is left WIDE OPEN..

 

[end rant]

[djg0770 481]

when I think of rocks the Name Goliath comes to mind. It is a deadly weapon.

 

I am tired of other countries whining about what they do not like about us. If they give back our Aid dollars, I may have a little more respect for them.

 

Tim - you went biblical before I could, good man! The tiniest kid with a rock and a sling took down the biggest giant, and then ran over, grabbed his sword and chopped his head off (since some of you may be oblivious).

 

Does the border patrol have less lethal means? Somehow, I doubt it. I also doubt that these kids were just "playing" at the border, and that they did not intend to commit a crime by actually crossing the border. I was born at night, just not LAST NIGHT, and all the other phrases that apply.

 

Ben - it's time you got your head out of the sand. WTF do you think would happen if a US kid threw a rock at a Mexican border patrol agent? :hand:

[bbk 188]

So, we all resort to our primal ways? Let's throw inhibitions, logic, etc to the wind. Let's forgo our greatest skill as as species, to communicate, and just F'in kill each other. I'm sure that will make us better than every other thug, rapist, murderer, terrorist, etc out there that have been plagues on man.

 

Yes, I understand that there must be the need to necessitate evil in society. There are no absolutes, except for when people reside on such absolutes to simply balance the scale. Why is that the case? Because there must be evil for there to be good... there must be heroes for there to be villains, etc.

How does that apply here? Because I understand that there is a point where violence must be used. Though, in most modern cases, this violence is a product of political lines and not necessarily the need out of survival.

 

In this situation, if a f'in rock being thrown at people has been a repeated problem, issue protective head gear. And after that, address why or how rocks are being thrown at people to began with. Simply shooting every person you don't like is not the answer. If you do agree with the fact that "everyone should die," I honestly hope which ever authorities do keep track of this forum make note of that because that is just absolutely ridiculous.

[MedicYeti 96]

I have a hard time feeling bad over this. The boarder is not a place to be playing around and being in an area where tensions are high then assulting an armed agent. This sounds like an example of darwinism at it's finest. They should stay in their country and throw rocks at their own agents, let's see if the results would be different.

I too did stupid things to police when I was a kid, but I didn't cross a country boarder to do it.

[Woozy 0]

Gee, I wonder (not really, I know the answer) what would happen to someone throwing rocks at Mexican border police on the southern border of Mexico? The answer is the too would probably be shoot, and if they lived, dragged across the border & thrown into a Mexican prison for the rest of their life.

[Sigman 41]

So, we all resort to our primal ways? Let's throw inhibitions, logic, etc to the wind. Let's forgo our greatest skill as as species, to communicate, and just F'in kill each other. I'm sure that will make us better than every other thug, rapist, murderer, terrorist, etc out there that have been plagues on man.

 

Yes, I understand that there must be the need to necessitate evil in society. There are no absolutes, except for when people reside on such absolutes to simply balance the scale. Why is that the case? Because there must be evil for there to be good... there must be heroes for there to be villains, etc.

How does that apply here? Because I understand that there is a point where violence must be used. Though, in most modern cases, this violence is a product of political lines and not necessarily the need out of survival.

 

In this situation, if a f'in rock being thrown at people has been a repeated problem, issue protective head gear. And after that, address why or how rocks are being thrown at people to began with. Simply shooting every person you don't like is not the answer. If you do agree with the fact that "everyone should die," I honestly hope which ever authorities do keep track of this forum make note of that because that is just absolutely ridiculous.

 

Dude - I totally disagree with this thought. Are you kidding me - issue head gear? You suggest to investigate why rocks are being thrown? If he had a gun he probably would have been shooting at them. This country is a complete joke. There is no border security. The progressives want them in this country so that we can take care of them. Border patrol doesn't shoot at them because they don't like them - they are protecting themselves and trying to protect our borders with the limited power they have. If the borders were really protected, and more illegals were shot, they wouldn't be crossing over. They know our border security is a complete joke. Thank God - Arizona has some balls to do something about it. Talk to some families in the border states that had loved ones killed or kidnapped and see how they feel about it. I am sick of the liberal media portraying the illegals as someone we should feel sorry for just like in this story. Let them come in legally like our ancestors - end of story.

[Guest]

So, we all resort to our primal ways? Let's throw inhibitions, logic, etc to the wind. Let's forgo our greatest skill as as species, to communicate, and just F'in kill each other. I'm sure that will make us better than every other thug, rapist, murderer, terrorist, etc out there that have been plagues on man.

 

Yes, I understand that there must be the need to necessitate evil in society. There are no absolutes, except for when people reside on such absolutes to simply balance the scale. Why is that the case? Because there must be evil for there to be good... there must be heroes for there to be villains, etc.

How does that apply here? Because I understand that there is a point where violence must be used. Though, in most modern cases, this violence is a product of political lines and not necessarily the need out of survival.

 

In this situation, if a f'in rock being thrown at people has been a repeated problem, issue protective head gear. And after that, address why or how rocks are being thrown at people to began with. Simply shooting every person you don't like is not the answer. If you do agree with the fact that "everyone should die," I honestly hope which ever authorities do keep track of this forum make note of that because that is just absolutely ridiculous.

 

Dude - I totally disagree with this thought. Are you kidding me - issue head gear? You suggest to investigate why rocks are being thrown? If he had a gun he probably would have been shooting at them. This country is a complete joke. There is no border security. The progressives want them in this country so that we can take care of them. Border patrol doesn't shoot at them because they don't like them - they are protecting themselves and trying to protect our borders with the limited power they have. If the borders were really protected, and more illegals were shot, they wouldn't be crossing over. They know our border security is a complete joke. Thank God - Arizona has some balls to do something about it. Talk to some families in the border states that had loved ones killed or kidnapped and see how they feel about it. I am sick of the liberal media portraying the illegals as someone we should feel sorry for just like in this story. Let them come in legally like our ancestors - end of story.

 

could not agree more.. being SOFT on the issue is what has created this problem!...

[bbk 188]

Everyone can agree that something must be done about immigration reform. I do not necessarily disagree with the actions of the agent (as I've noted previously), as I was not in that exact situation, but as it stands-- the actions do not seem justified.

 

At this point, I won't argue my point because it is apparently going over everyone's heads. Understand that I do agree, with EVERYONE IN THIS WORLD, that something must be done about our border security. However, in this exact case, equal and justified force is not reciprocating rocks with bullets. Solving every problem with pulling a trigger is not civil, no matter how much it pains us at times. Want to stoop to their level of dealing with matters with strictly violence, fine by me-- but do not represent a greater whole in your actions/words.

[bry@n 195]

I agree that the only way to get through to people is to take action. Kids do stupid things but crap happens.

 

IMO, you throw a rock, I shoot a round, you hit me, I shoot you dead. Eventually when there are enough dead bodies at the border. They will learn and we can use the bodies to make a bigger wall.

[njpilot 671]

Fox News just had a segment on this story a few minutes ago. They showed footage from 2001 where 2 Border Patrol Agents had a man on the ground, looked like they were trying to take him into custody. There were 2-3 young Mexican men close by, the closest was less than 10 feet away. This individual was trying to get into position to throw, what looked like a rock the size of a brick, at the 2 Agents who kept having to turn to keep their backs from him, while trying to keep a hold of the guy on the ground.

 

There was a third Agent, gun drawn and aiming it at the guy with the brick or large rock who was standing with his arm in a throwing position. What are they to do?

 

I hear your position Ben and if it appears that excessive force was used, the Agent who shot this kid will be charged. None of us were there to see how close the throwers actually were and what they were throwing.

 

If you had seen the footage I described above, most would not have blamed the Agent for shooting the guy if he made a move to throw the brick/large rock. That brick/rock could have easily killed an Agent if he were hit in the head with it.

[Guest]

Fox News just had a segment on this story a few minutes ago. They showed footage from 2001 where 2 Border Patrol Agents had a man on the ground, looked like they were trying to take him into custody. There were 2-3 young Mexican men close by, the closest was less than 10 feet away. This individual was trying to get into position to throw, what looked like a rock the size of a brick, at the 2 Agents who kept having to turn to keep their backs from him, while trying to keep a hold of the guy on the ground.

 

There was a third Agent, gun drawn and aiming it at the guy with the brick or large rock who was standing with his arm in a throwing position. What are they to do?

 

I hear your position Ben and if it appears that excessive force was used, the Agent who shot this kid will be charged. None of us were there to see how close the throwers actually were and what they were throwing.

 

If you had seen the footage I described above, most would not have blamed the Agent for shooting the guy if he made a move to throw the brick/large rock. That brick/rock could have easily killed an Agent if he were hit in the head with it.

 

 

just saw the SAME exact thing.. and the point that if the agent is knocked unconscious he (or she) may lose their firearm.. is IMO totally valid.. i think if you draw down on someone.. and they continue to threaten to throw a brick at you, you should probably take the shot since they are illustrating little concern with their own safety.. people who do not care about their own safety are VERY dangerous..

[njpilot 671]

Just heard the kid shot has been deported 5 times and is on the El Paso's most wanted list for humand trafficing.

[Krdshrk 3,877]

http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/06/10/texas. ... tml?hpt=T2

 

Wonder how they got the video and if it's been edited at all.

[Guest]

Just heard the kid shot has been deported 5 times and is on the El Paso's most wanted list for humand trafficing.

 

 

you're kidding.. I figured he was a legit hard working guy just looking for work.. lol

[djg0770 481]

At this point, I won't argue my point because it is apparently going over everyone's heads.

 

You arrogant PRICK. It's not over my head. You are more than welcome to "analyze the situation" and "talk to the instigators without preconditions". As for me and MY house, we will grab our armament and prepare for the invasion that has already taken over half of this country. We will repel the idiots that cause my property tax, income tax, healthcare insurance etc to be onerous.