Tula 223 ammo

[dpas1973 0]

anyone else try tula ammo in their AR? I bought 1K rounds for 180.00 it is the worst ammo every few rounds jam/get stuck in the barrel even when i clean the bushmaster i have it still does the same thing. anyone have these problems?

[mikeyboyeee 66]

anyone else try tula ammo in their AR? I bought 1K rounds for 180.00 it is the worst ammo every few rounds jam/get stuck in the barrel even when i clean the bushmaster i have it still does the same thing. anyone have these problems?

 

I have about 500 rounds, but have yet to fire them in my M&P.

Plan on it at the shooutout on the 30th.

[Maksim 1,504]

anyone else try tula ammo in their AR? I bought 1K rounds for 180.00 it is the worst ammo every few rounds jam/get stuck in the barrel even when i clean the bushmaster i have it still does the same thing. anyone have these problems?

 

Some guns chew it up like candy. Others have issue with it. Live and learn.

 

How old is the gun? Last time cleaned?

 

Define jam? What exactly happens? It doesnt feed the next round? It does not extract the old case? or is the bullet itself stuck in the barrel and you have to push it out?

[dpas1973 0]

gun is 5 months old clean it every time after using it. It does all of the above lol.

[simmons 1]

I have a Stag 2T. It's about 6 months old. I clean it after ever range trip. I won't use Tula ever again. Last incident a spen case jammed itself in the breach. The next round in magazine almost bent in half. I'm a changed man. Never Again.

[bbk 188]

Like Wolf, it suffers from the lacquer issue. The casing heats up, and the lacquer coating melts off into the chamber. The ensuing rounds (whether its a steel case or brass) then have a higher chance of getting "stuck" in the chamber. From what I've read and experienced myself, it has nothing to do with one manufacturer being able to chew through it better then any other-- its a concept issue. ARs have tighter tolerances then AKs (which is what makes them technically more accurate), and is the reason why they suffer from this issue while AKs do not.

 

Personally, I won't use Wolf or Tula for anything beyond range shooting, and I will clean the heck out of the rifle afterward so there is no build up of that junk. Otherwise, cheap stuff, and apparently the newer stuff doesn't have as much of this issue then the older stuff.

[Maksim 1,504]

gun is 5 months old clean it every time after using it. It does all of the above lol.

 

I highly doubt it does all of the above.

 

Does the first round in the mag go Bang?

 

Some guns have an issue as steel cased does not seal as well as brass, thus there is not enough gas to cycle the action.

 

I had some guns that would not be able to feed it, and some guns that will use it up all day long. You really have to know the gun. Some guns I ran accross, would only cycle cheap wolf/tula/silver/brown bear ammo. They could not cycle brass.

 

You live and learn... spend a bit more to get pmc brass cased ammo. Buying a Ferrari and trying to save $.02 on gas only gets you so far.

[Maksim 1,504]

Like Wolf, it suffers from the lacquer issue. The casing heats up, and the lacquer coating melts off into the chamber. The ensuing rounds (whether its a steel case or brass) then have a higher chance of getting "stuck" in the chamber. From what I've read and experienced myself, it has nothing to do with one manufacturer being able to chew through it better then any other-- its a concept issue. ARs have tighter tolerances then AKs (which is what makes them technically more accurate), and is the reason why they suffer from this issue while AKs do not.

 

Personally, I won't use Wolf or Tula for anything beyond range shooting, and I will clean the heck out of the rifle afterward so there is no build up of that junk. Otherwise, cheap stuff, and apparently the newer stuff doesn't have as much of this issue then the older stuff.

 

 

Ben, see post above. Wolf would not cycle my sig 556 or Tim's bushy, however have seen other Stag's , Smiths, and Rock River's eat it up all day long.

[lunker 274]

My AKs (VEPR, Saiga 223) eat that **** like candy!

 

Maybe you're using the wrong platform. oops, wrong thread.

[bbk 188]

I read about how steel doesn't expand like brass, but wasn't sure how that worked. Maybe if the chamber were reamed it would clear up some issues? Though, I agree that a person might as well run brass regardless.

[Maksim 1,504]

I read about how steel doesn't expand like brass, but wasn't sure how that worked. Maybe if the chamber were reamed it would clear up some issues? Though, I agree that a person might as well run brass regardless.

 

Most of my issues were that it would extract, but not enough uuumph to cycle all the way through to chuck the brass at the end, and strip the next round into the chamber.

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

Like Wolf, it suffers from the lacquer issue.

 

 

Certainly not advocating for the use of Wolf (neither of my AR's will ever see steel-cased ammo - that's a personal decision), but Wolf hasn't used lacquered cases for years - and at the rate we black-gun owners go through ammo, I doubt there is any NOS on dealer's shelves.

 

Wolf uses a polymer coating with a higher melt temp than the old lacquered cases, specifically to preclude this problem. Can't speak for the other former Eastern-bloc brands.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

[bbk 188]

True, Pizza Bob, my bad for not looking into it further. My only experience with Wolf is the really old stuff (bought it awhile back now, and just got around to disposing it).

 

And I think what you're saying is making sense, Maks. Seems like any remedial fixes a person could take with their rifle to run Wolf effectively would be a moot point (unless saving that much on Wolf is that important... like if someone bought a couple thousand rounds). Though, it seems like a low-mass BCG and light buffer & spring could do the trick?

[dpas1973 0]

i was talking about tula its not the same mfg as wolf tula is the cheapest 223 ammo you can find cheaper then wolf.

[Caine 147]

Tula.. Wolf.. it's all the same sh*t. Most if not all of my Tula ammo has "Wolf" stamped on the case. Some guns just don't like steal cased ammo... yours apparently is one of them. Depending on how old your Bushy is, it's possible your 5.56 marked chamber is actually a .223 chamber... and even tho Tula is .223, .223 chambered guns are pickier about ammo.

 

I'm one of the fortunate ones that has never had problems with Wolf/Tula after 2-3k rounds... but neither of my ARs are from Bushmaster.

[vladtepes 1,060]

My AKs (VEPR, Saiga 223) eat that **** like candy!

 

Maybe you're using the wrong platform. oops, wrong thread.

 

 

THIS!

 

guys on Saiga 12 buy Tula all day long.. and in that weapon I have not seen a ton of operational issues reported.. I would not shoot any of that steel case stuff in any of my AR platform guns..

 

as far as wolf you can pretty much see the difference in the coating.. the lacquer is thicker and almost greener.. where as the newer coating they use is pretty much clear.. I actually just picked up 500 rounds of the lacquer coated.. it really seems inconsequential what ammo I put in the Saiga... but my AR series guns have always been slightly more picky..

[Maksim 1,504]

btw, a quick update for those that dont know...

 

Tula, Wolf, Brown Bear, Silver Bear, Herters, are all made at the Tula/Wolf Plant in Russia.

 

Wolf Gold is made by Prvi Partisan in Serbia.... good ammo.

 

Now, what most will probably not know. Had a discussion with a Wolf master distributor a few weeks ago. Wolf lost the license in the United States to import arms and ammo, so now it is imported under the Tula name. All of the old wolf products, are now repackaged and resold as Tula.

[vladtepes 1,060]

btw, a quick update for those that dont know...

 

Tula, Wolf, Brown Bear, Silver Bear, Herters, are all made at the Tula/Wolf Plant in Russia.

 

Wolf Gold is made by Prvi Partisan in Serbia.... good ammo.

 

Now, what most will probably not know. Had a discussion with a Wolf master distributor a few weeks ago. Wolf lost the license in the United States to import arms and ammo, so now it is imported under the Tula name. All of the old wolf products, are now repackaged and resold as Tula.

 

 

that information is hugely useful! guess next time I restock on 7.62x39 I will just look at the cheapest under those manufactures since they are all of pretty similar quality.. never saw wolf gold before..

[Caine 147]

btw, a quick update for those that dont know...

 

Tula, Wolf, Brown Bear, Silver Bear, Herters, are all made at the Tula/Wolf Plant in Russia.

Brown Bear and Silver Bear are made at the Barnaul plant, no?

[Maksim 1,504]

Brown Bear and Silver Bear are made at the Barnaul plant, no?

 

Some of the older stuff was. My folks in Russia do point out that same control over both... just a question what the importer of the day is, or where the government produces the ammo based on capacity.

 

the Arms industry in russia is consolidating, with companies like Vyatskii Polyni (makers of the Vepr) being "liquidated" and absorbed into Izmaesh/Saiga.

 

Wolf Gold is mostly rifle ammo, havent seen alot of new stuff, but it is all brass cased. Once again, made by Prvi on contract, sold under the wolf name. Their deal was that ammo was to be imported into the states by Wolf, and in Europe it would be sold by Prvi. I guess when Wolf lost the license, Prvi just started importing it themselves.

 

Wolf ammo is commercial, like Tula. Some of the older Brown bear, was actually just repackaged old late-modern surplus ammo. And silver bear was new production. Now pretty much all the same crap.

[vjf915 456]

btw, a quick update for those that dont know...

 

Tula, Wolf, Brown Bear, Silver Bear, Herters, are all made at the Tula/Wolf Plant in Russia.

 

Wolf Gold is made by Prvi Partisan in Serbia.... good ammo.

Awesome information, definitely have to keep this in mind.

 

That being said, its always best to test several different brands/kinds of ammo before buying a decent amount like that.

[Caine 147]

I recently noticed that some places are now carrying Ulyanovsk ammo - from the pictures I've seen it looks exactly like Wolf/Tula polymer rounds. Supposedly manufactured in Ulyanovsk, Russia, but based on what Maks is saying, who knows

[Maksim 1,504]

I recently noticed that some places are now carrying Ulyanovsk ammo - from the pictures I've seen it looks exactly like Wolf/Tula polymer rounds. Supposedly manufactured in Ulyanovsk, Russia, but based on what Maks is saying, who knows

 

 

Ulyanovsks is another Russian supplier, just different factory for the same ammo/specs. All of the russian stuff is the same stuff, and in all, the government is the major owner.

 

Here is a link I found...

 

http://www.ak-47.us/Article_Detail.php?g=content1203321946

[EchoMirage 137]

what about gold bear ammo

[Maksim 1,504]

Not familiar with golden bear. Is it brass cased? PPU?

 

Honestly, I stay away from most of that ammo. PMC brass cased stuff is cheap and works just fine when I have to buy commercial.

[Caine 147]

Not familiar with golden bear. Is it brass cased? PPU?

It's brass plated steal cased:

http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/product_info.php/manufacturers_id/21/products_id/579 - seems to be a step up from Brown & Silver Bear.

 

PMC brass cased stuff is cheap and works just fine when I have to buy commercial.

+1. PMC or PRVI which is about the same price as PMC these days.

[EchoMirage 137]

from what i remember, the accuracy was off with golden bear as compared to some other brands i had at the time. also, at one outing they didnt like pmags, but fed normally with aluminum. it seemed the plastic would grab the coating and wouldnt strip cleanly as it would with a metal mag. but yet the next time i used them, i had no failures.

[Tosser 61]

If your AR can't cycle Wolf there is something wrong with your rifle, not the ammo.

 

That being said, i choose not to use wolf and run all the brass cased stuff that is now $300 a case. Xm193, PMC, whatever...

 

The wolf is just so damn'd dirty.

[dpas1973 0]

its only 5 months old with not even 1k rounds through it. it cycles brass fine.

[tbtrout 141]

If your AR can't cycle Wolf there is something wrong with your rifle, not the ammo.

 

 

What is the common problem with the rifle?