So here's an ammo question...legal home protection...

[emptyshell 0]

I was in my local Sporting Goods store yesterday...and a question comes up from another customer...what really is legal in home protection ammo? If you can legally buy HP bullets the the State of New Jersey...transport them...and shoot them at your range...why in the world is it not really legal in a home invasion situation? The dealer said "it's not legal in NJ unless the criminal is firing HP bullets"...Now, I'm not exactly sure this is correct...nor am I qualified in the art of determining whether a gun has HP ammo loaded...is anyone into the art of mind reading?

 

Is this really the case? Seems a bit ridiculous. Not what the dealer was saying...yet, if this is really true.

 

I would hope one of our members here...LEO, or lawyer, could answer and explain this to me and others here. Please excuse me if this has been discussed here before. I find it incredible that a law abiding person is confronted in his home, and can not take means to protect himself and his family while at the same time... thinking of the safety of others around him/her. I hope to NEVER be in that situation, but you do need to be responsible and obey the law...even if you don't agree with it.

 

Also...why would HP ammo be illegal in a protection situation your home...seems to me that the benefits of not causing as much collateral damage(ie; going through a wall, and God forbid...injuring an innocent neighbor...etc.) would be applauded. FMJ in this situation seems ridiculous.

 

The dealer did say that Corbon PowRball is legal...is this a fact? If so, seems the way to go for protection...and safety.

 

Hopefully this wasn't too long winded!

[Krdshrk 3,877]

HP ammo is legal for home defense. However there are 3 different legal "Hollow point" bullets available.

 

Hornady Critical Defense

Federal EFMJ

and Corbon Pow-R-Ball

 

I keep some Hornady CD myself.

[67gtonut 847]

Simple answer..... You dealer is wrong

 

Hollow Point ammo is only illegal when used in a criminal act..... It's an add-on charge...

 

I am not a lawyer...... but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express

[emptyshell 0]

That's what I thought...

I do keep both Hornady Critical Defense, and Federal EFMJ, in my home.

 

I have tested both and feel the Federal shoots better in my Glock 19...I get much tighter groupings.

 

I only started this thread because he said the day prior...a prosecutor from Essex County had been in the store...was posed the question...and that was his answer...

 

Totally confusing...

[tommy3rd 132]

Here's a state police blurb on hollow points.

http://www.state.nj.us/njsp/about/fire_hollow.html

 

I don't know the legality for home use though. It's legal to possess at home, but will you be covered if you end up using it at home?

[hopper 36]

Here's a state police blurb on hollow points.

http://www.state.nj.us/njsp/about/fire_hollow.html

 

I don't know the legality for home use though. It's legal to possess at home, but will you be covered if you end up using it at home?

Basically what it comes down to is the prosecutor , depending on his/her legal ruleing on how the hollow point bullet was used

[Redfish62 1]

HP ammo is legal for home defense. However there are 3 different legal "Hollow point" bullets available.

 

Hornady Critical Defense

Federal EFMJ

and Corbon Pow-R-Ball

 

I keep some Hornady CD myself.

 

Please explain why the 3 you listed are the only legal hollow point bullets available?

[Turbofire 2]

Please explain why the 3 you listed are the only legal hollow point bullets available?

 

I believe he listed those 3 because none of them have an actual hole in the tip, they all have a plastic filler of some sort. I'd be interested if it's based on any official source as well.

 

I'd love to talk to that prosecutor and hear his logic, was he a gun owner?

[hopper 36]

Please explain why the 3 you listed are the only legal hollow point bullets available?

I know that the Federal is a Expanding Full Metal Jacket bullet which is not really considered a " Hollow Point " but does expand upon impact so therefore not really falling in the catagory of hollow point..

[ianargent 7]

Legal to possess in the home, or under the same conditions as a handgun (per the state law; as noted in the link to the NJSP opinion page). There's no laws concerning what can and can't be used in a home defense situation, only the conditions under which you are permitted to use force. Look it up youself to be sure, but either "reasonably in fear of life" or "called upon intruder to surrender/disarm". NJ has a (weak) castle doctrine, there is no duty to retreat before using force in the home.

 

The laws on USE of hollow-points is that it's an add-on charge when used in a crime. So, if you use them unlawfully in a home invasion scenario, you get a larger book thrown at you. Not charged or convicted of a crime, the use of hollow-points is not a crime.

 

IANAL, particularly not a firearms lawyer.

[coldsolderjoint 84]

 

You need to find a new dealer.

 

+1 to what everyone else said.

 

The reason that the EFMJ or Powerball loads are "more legal" for lack of a better term, is that you do not have to go directly from the store to the range or home. You could legally carry them around (without a gun of course).

[Genewarper111 18]

As I've posted elsewhere, we at ShootNJ discussed this during our last PPOH and PPIH courses and it was our opinion that, because off-duty police officers and retired police officers are (heresay I know) moving to EFMJ over HP, and because of the huge ambiguity regarding HP (witness the countless discussions on the topic), that we would be sure our students knew about EFMJ and how it expands to pretty much the same extent as HP, but is immune from the anti-HP statutes and attitude. At least two of us have moved to EFMJ for home defense.

 

Regarding the question and answer that stimulated this thread, it simply points out that none of us should rely on others opinions unless the person giving it actually is a lawyer. It's part of our individual respinsibilities as legal firearms owners to directly inform ourselves and to be aware that the written statute is just the beginning - the Administrative Code is a huge "Part Two"

 

Sincerely

Grant

[PK90 3,570]

Please explain why the 3 you listed are the only legal hollow point bullets available?

These are the ammunition types that the NJSP has authorized in writing to be legal for a retired LEO to carry. They are not considered hollow points in their opinion.

[NJ609 22]

I find it easier to just use a 12ga loaded with 00 buckshot. That way, god forbid something terrible happens, the question never even comes up.

 

And if I run out of buckshot, well, I guess at that point the heavy Federal HS slug in the last slot will be what saves my life or not. If that's the case do you think you'd really care about the semantics?

[mikeyboyeee 66]

HP ammo is legal for home defense. However there are 3 different legal "Hollow point" bullets available.

 

Hornady Critical Defense

Federal EFMJ

and Corbon Pow-R-Ball

 

I keep some Hornady CD myself.

 

 

Their are quite a few more legal HP rounds then you have listed!

 

2 of the 3 you havelisted aren't even hollow points.

[Krdshrk 3,877]

I'm going by the info I got here from PK90 a while back. I know PowRBall isn't really HP. Hornady CD is HP with a little bit of plastic in the tip.

[mikeyboyeee 66]

I'm going by the info I got here from PK90 a while back. I know PowRBall isn't really HP. Hornady CD is HP with a little bit of plastic in the tip.

 

Then none of those listed are hollow points.

 

Speer gold dots would be an example of hollow points and they are perfectly legal.

[Krdshrk 3,877]

We're talking about apples and oranges here. The 3 I have listed are legal to carry around. Say you have a NJ CCW and carry those. You'd have less trouble than if you had Speer Gold Dots. For at home only though, the Speer GD would be fine.

[e80hydro 120]

"it's not legal in NJ unless the criminal is firing HP bullets"...

 

 

 

What does he think your supposed to do, ask the bad guy what type of ammo he intends to kill you with, and wait while you reload with the same??? Holy crap.

[mikeyboyeee 66]

"it's not legal in NJ unless the criminal is firing HP bullets"...

 

 

 

What does he think your supposed to do, ask the bad guy what type of ammo he intends to kill you with, and wait while you reload with the same??? Holy crap.

 

Yes, that's an a$$ a 9 comment for sure!

 

I don't think you would have an issue carrying HP's either as long as you do not use them while commiting a crime.

 

 

I agree tho that I would prob carry the powerball, but only for the better expansion thru cloths.

[Malsua 1,422]

 

I don't think you would have an issue carrying HP's either as long as you do not use them while commiting a crime.

 

Carrying them is a crime so yeah, you'd have an issue.

[Krdshrk 3,877]

Yeah that was my point. Home defense, regular HP ammo is fine. If you've got a CCW and are out and about and carrying, don't carry HP ammo.

[emptyshell 0]

e80hydro...my thoughts exactly...that's why I made the mind reading comment. I thought it was interesting in that, this must come up like crazy in stores all over jersey, when people are looking to purchase ammo. I also find it interesting how, the type of weapon is completely black and white, as per the laws in jersey...Yet ammo is left so ambiguous. You would think they'd blur the lines just a bit less...

[Maksim 1,504]

JHP make very clean holes in paper. =P

 

But now my home defense mag is cycled between regular FMJ and EFMJ. Case of JHP for the range.

[n4p226r 105]

For those that use the federal efmj. Does anyone know where I can pick up a few boxes of the 124 gr +p 9mm. I'm pretty sure it's part number is p9csp1

[hopper 36]

For those that use the federal efmj. Does anyone know where I can pick up a few boxes of the 124 gr +p 9mm. I'm pretty sure it's part number is p9csp1

In south jersey theres a place to purchase them , the website is Ammoman.com , he usually has Federal efmj in many calibers , only thing is you have to go there in person cause he wont ship in NJ , I know , he will sell in person in NJ but wont ship in NJ , I DONT GET IT EITHER !!!!

[Krdshrk 3,877]

For those that use the federal efmj. Does anyone know where I can pick up a few boxes of the 124 gr +p 9mm. I'm pretty sure it's part number is p9csp1

 

Streichers has it in stock:

http://www.policehq.com/ProductList.aspx?CategoryName=FEDERAL-AMMO&FilterValues=27b647bf-abd4-482b-8a19-af9a713df028

 

I have a similar thread for HD ammo that I got that link from. I haven't bought from them yet but I will probably try it sometime soon.

[KpdPipes 388]

In south jersey theres a place to purchase them , the website is Ammoman.com , he usually has Federal efmj in many calibers , only thing is you have to go there in person cause he wont ship in NJ , I know , he will sell in person in NJ but wont ship in NJ , I DONT GET IT EITHER !!!!

 

 

He CANNOT SHIP TO NJ..he has to record Purchases to NJ residents in his BOOK just like ANY Retailer in this state..therefore he HAS TO HAVE YOUR FID IN HAND... Everyone else can ship here because they DONT have to deal with the State. HE DOES, therefore he has to follow the rules.. Get it now????

[hopper 36]

quote name='KpdPipes' timestamp='1286826427' post='251350']

He CANNOT SHIP TO NJ..he has to record Purchases to NJ residents in his BOOK just like ANY Retailer in this state..therefore he HAS TO HAVE YOUR FID IN HAND... Everyone else can ship here because they DONT have to deal with the State. HE DOES, therefore he has to follow the rules.. Get it now????

[uote]

I think you were the one who Misunderstood my quote , it wasnt the fact that he cant ship to NJ , i understand why he cant , i was making Reference to the fact this state is so ridiculious in its laws and that many other out of state retailers will ship without any proof of FID .

[KpdPipes 388]

quote name='KpdPipes' timestamp='1286826427' post='251350']

He CANNOT SHIP TO NJ..he has to record Purchases to NJ residents in his BOOK just like ANY Retailer in this state..therefore he HAS TO HAVE YOUR FID IN HAND... Everyone else can ship here because they DONT have to deal with the State. HE DOES, therefore he has to follow the rules.. Get it now????

[uote]

I think you were the one who Misunderstood my quote , it wasnt the fact that he cant ship to NJ , i understand why he cant , i was making Reference to the fact this state is so ridiculious in its laws and that many other out of state retailers will ship without any proof of FID .

My apologies then it sounded like the usual Eric is an A-hole because he wont ship to us rant. it sucks, but its the sysytem he has to work within.while it wasnt all peaces and roses before Once Florio took over the Governor' office, followed by Whitman, we REALLY got Dicked over.