SCAR or ACR??

[CageFighter 236]

would you pick the SCAR or the ACR? my original goal was the 17s, bc of the 7.62x51 round + the minimal price difference. after looking at parts availibilty (mostly 10rd mags), i maybe reconsidering my decision. does anyone have either rifle and want to chime in? please advise b4 I drop my $$ on a new toy.

[Babaganoosh 192]

ALthough I have read a lot of good things about both rifles I have shot the ACR. I only put about 100 rounds thru it and cant say anything bad about it. 100 rounds is not enough to base a decision to purchase on in my opinion. I dont think many people own either one so chances are you won't get to spend much time behind the trigger. I would suggest finding a forum where the people actually own the rifles and get their input.

 

Have you actually held either gun in your own hands?

[vjf915 456]

Just one thing to keep in mind, .308 is going to be fairly expensive in a semi-automatic. Other than that, the rest is really up to you. I hate to always be the guy to say it, but nobody on here can tell you which rifle you should spend your money on.....especially when you are looking to drop in excess of $2000. Both rifles are relatively new, so parts other than those that attach to rails will not be common. You may be better starting off with some cheaper weapons....meaning instead of spending $3000 on ONE rifle..........you could build an AR, get a bolt action, pistol, and do some trap shooting. With this you will be able to find out what aspect of shooting you enjoy the best. And in the meantime, research the ACR vs SCAR. Trust me, type in "ACR vs SCAR" into google, and you will get A LOT of information.

[CageFighter 236]

Have you actually held either gun in your own hands?

 

 

yes, held the ACR @ BA, felt good. i wish they had a .308 version. worst case, i would settle for a 1x7 twist 5.56, but still hoping for the FN.

[Babaganoosh 192]

I agree on it feeling good too. Lets say that you pick up the Scar and it feels atrocious. Maybe the ergonomics just won't be there for you. Obviously go for the ACR.

 

I believe the ACR can go from 5.56 to the .308 with a barrel change and a few other quick changes. Is the Scar the same way?

 

.223 ammo is waaaaaaay cheaper to shoot than .308 and you will go thru it quickly. The cost will add up fast.

[Maksim 1,504]

There was a post here before about Scar/ACR/Piston AR's. Scar is by far better weapon.

[CageFighter 236]

Scar is by far better weapon.

 

come on Maks, help me locate a SCAR-17! i kno u have sum pull.

[bbk 188]

Oh man, ANOTHER "ACR vs. SCAR" thread?

http://njgunforums.com/forum/index.php?/topic/18800-bushmaster-acr/

http://njgunforums.com/forum/index.php?/topic/18662-scar-17s/

http://njgunforums.com/forum/index.php?/topic/11963-remington-bushmaster-magpul-acr/

http://njgunforums.com/forum/index.php?/topic/14923-bushmaster-acr/

http://njgunforums.com/forum/index.php?/topic/17000-review-of-acr-thus-far-not-full-review-yet/

http://njgunforums.com/forum/index.php?/topic/17729-opinions-on-the-bushmaster-acr/

 

I'm sure there are some more I missed while skimming. There's also a lot of other healthy discussions on more rifle-specific forums.

 

My opinion, abridged version:

If money is not an issue, and you want pure quality between these two, go with a SCAR. It comes in both 5.56 (SCAR L/SCAR 16) and .308 (SCAR H/SCAR 17).

 

Unabridged:

From what I understand, ACR is NOT interchangeable to take .308, even with the barrel swap thing. You would still need to get a dedicated ACR lower for .308 (which is not available... yet, and no publicly announced time frame). However, the .223 ACR model can be used to shoot 6.8SPC with the barrel and bolt swap (though I haven't heard anything regarding the availability of this yet... Bushmaster hasn't even said anything about aftermarket parts like different barrel lengths or extra bolts for the .223 version yet). And don't get me started on how Bushmaster royally screwed the production and marketing of the ACR.

Understand that this was Magpul's baby originally, but, from what I understand, Magpul sold the rights to Bushmaster and Remington and hardly have a stake in the ACR anymore. Originally, Magpul wanted to reinvent the wheel with the Masada, and then wanted to price it for the every day person-- like they do with most of their [awesome] products (apparently they wanted to list it for around $1000). Once Bushmaster and Remington got their hands on distribution and production rights... well, the rest is history. The Bushmaster ACR has sub par manufacturing and oversight (do a search for ACR issues, and most aren't design flaws as QC blunders), and the MSRP is $2600... for the "Basic" and "Compliant" versions? A rifle that was envisioned to be the every day person's rifle has just become a cruel and terrible joke. Maybe in a few years after Bushmaster, hopefully, rights their ship, as well as coming to their senses regarding their pricing.

The only plus is that it can be made NJ compliant very easily. The 'Basic' model comes with a fixed stock and no bayo lug-- just needs the muzzle device pinned. For the same price, the recently released 'Compliant' model has a fixed stock and no bayo lug, but also comes with an already pinned muzzle brake (similar to what Bushmaster uses on their compliant AR models). Still, these are issues that can be easily resolved for a small amount of money compared to the actual cost of the rifle itself.

 

The SCAR on the other hand is a different story. Yes, its the creation of FNH, a foreign company. But, like all of the FNH products that are used by the US military, the SCAR is manufactured here in the US (there was initially uproar that it was a foreign product). It is battle proven, and is currently on the end of its field-testing by USSOCOM and other elements. It is not interchangeable in any manner, but comes in both 5.56 and .308 (apparently Bushmaster ACRs are "not made" to fire 5.56 ammunition, as said by Bushmaster armorers). I think one of the downfalls is that the .308 can only take proprietary magazines, and I think maybe FAL magazines. Regardless, both are difficult to find/make NJ legal, and/or are expensive. Other .308s like the DPMS or SR25 accept more readily available magazines, the SR25 accepting the Magpul 20LR (which can be easily fixed to be NJ compliant-- Ty of MidwestPX has these actually, and aren't much more expensive then compliant PMags).

The major thing that gets me about the SCAR, and its a small detail, but its a bit more difficult, notably the stock, to make NJ legal. The muzzle device it comes with is the PWS FSC (which is NJ legal, and just requires permanently attaching). The stock though is still something of an enigma, though, I'm sure there is a way. VLTOR also released a stock adapter for the SCAR (similar to their AK stock adapters) during SHOT 2010, but nothing of it since. Still, if this option were available, I think its a relatively easy fix (as regular AR stocks tend to be pretty easy to pin).

 

Its not an easy choice, but if you're ready and willing to spend the money-- go with the SCAR. Its not perfect by any means, but I think, long term, the only regret would be parting with the cash for it-- and, if you go with the 17, the money you would spend on the ammo!

[Shane45 807]

Well without a diatribe, when it came to 308 I chose the LMT MWS, and so did the Brits . In short I went this way because if Im going to swing a 308, I want it to be able to pull double duty as a DMR rifle. The LMT wins in this catagory in my opinion. Now on the 5.56 front, I chose the SCAR. I simply have greater confidence in FN's experience and engineering. Here is the MWS and the SCAR outfitted with our Aimpooint M2/M3 mount and also fitted with an Eotech and Surefire.

 

 

 

[Shane45 807]

One other turn off was the reportedly siginifcant difference between the MIL ACR and the peasent ACR

[The_Matrix 105]

I would go with the FN. They make weapons for the military. Also if you try to sell in the future, its probably easier to sell the FN vs a bushmaster.

[CageFighter 236]

Shane, im jealous. can u hook me up too??? I just saw the SCAR16s at the Allentown show today and it was perfect, just wrong caliber. ......HELP!!

[Shane45 807]

Unfortunately there isnt much I can do for you. Your biggest challange is either locating someone out of state willing to do the work before they send it here or one here willing to recieve it and do the work. I am not an FFL and therefore of little help

[bbk 188]

What method did you use to neuter the stock? I've search-engined it, but the methods have been limited, and mostly for CA users.

[Shane45 807]

BTW got to put a few rounds through it today. It is a nice rifle. I dont know about all the claims of no recoil. It really didnt feel any different to me than any other 5.56. Maybe Im just recoil insensitive. Anyhow I will tell you one thing. I really cant put my finger on the why or how but the rifle just feels reliable. Maybe its the smoothness or lack of any hesitation or something but it just feels like she could just go and go and go. The rifle kind of reminds me of a high end mountain bike. It has that same light, rigid, strong feel about it. Shouldering the rifle s a bit of a different feel if your used to AR's. Its going to take a bit of getting used to. The ambi safety on my MWS and SCAR have me looking for it on the Colt. Im going to have to get an ambi safety for the Colt for sure. For some reason I like going hot with my thumb but going safe with my trigger finger. The safety and mag release are in the same vicinity but are a little bit farther of a reach in bothe cases. The real tell will be how she holds up in the multi gun match. I suspect that this rifle has more to offer than meets the eye. I think where she trully shines is an envelope most shooters never go. Specifically Im speaking of harsh envirenments and high round counts without cleaning/lube etc etc. But sometimes its nice to know your Hayabusa will do 191mph even if you never do

[Shane45 807]

I came up with my own. And I'll tell ya it was barely short of a full on science project. It would be really really hard to explain if you dont have an idea of what the inner workings of that stock system are. Think cam shafts in a car engine and your on the right track

[CageFighter 236]

I came up with my own. And I'll tell ya it was barely short of a full on science project. It would be really really hard to explain if you dont have an idea of what the inner workings of that stock system are. Think cam shafts in a car engine and your on the right track

 

 

share the secret! im desperately shopping 17!!

[Shane45 807]

I wouldnt mind having a 17 too but prices are still stupid. Im going to wait it out. I really dont care to put it up on the open forum for a number of reasons. But if you find an FFL willing to do the work, let me know and we will figure something out. Who knows, someone else may have a better way than mine.

 

Shane

[DevsAdvocate 112]

Go with the SCAR...

 

Interesting side note: US Military M-16s are manufactured by FN. Or at least they were. Colt does the M-4.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/1988/10/03/nyregion/army-drops-colt-as-m16-rifle-maker.html

[CageFighter 236]

I really dont care to put it up on the open forum for a number of reasons. But if you find an FFL willing to do the work, let me know and we will figure something out. Who knows, someone else may have a better way than mine.

 

I agree. i dont think i would post it on an open forum. i would send it via a PM tho, maybe even for a SMALL donation, -lol.

[theRU 33]

Is it wrong of me to want an ACR simply because it looks BAD A@$

[DevsAdvocate 112]

Is it wrong of me to want an ACR simply because it looks BAD A@$

 

Nope. But general badassery costs quite a bit.

[theRU 33]

Nope. But general badassery costs quite a bit.

 

 

Haha i know..but i mean in regards to the ACR vs SCAR question..pricing is similar.. but the looks of the ACR make me want it over the SCAR

[DevsAdvocate 112]

Haha i know..but i mean in regards to the ACR vs SCAR question..pricing is similar.. but the looks of the ACR make me want it over the SCAR

 

Go for it. I think there is one for sale in the Marketplace... Engineerjet is parting with it.

[Shane45 807]

I like the looks of the ACR over the SCAR. I like the engineering of the SCAR over the ACR. But in the end I think that either is well within the abuses we are likely to bestow on it so go with what you like.

[Babaganoosh 192]

Exactly. We are all pretty much weekend warriors. Go with the one you like. Besides if you ever have to put it thru the abuses of the military then you prob have bigger problems on your hands.

[The_Matrix 105]

Me and my co-worker were debating this topic at work today. We both agree that we would get the SCAR b/c of the name brand, ie FN, but the ACR looks better.

[DevsAdvocate 112]

The ACR would be better if it was built like the AR-15, by multiple manufacturers.

[theRU 33]

The ACR would be better if it was built like the AR-15, by multiple manufacturers.

 

Is bushmaster really that bad?

[DevsAdvocate 112]

Is bushmaster really that bad?

 

For what they charge for an ACR? Yes.

 

But it's more of an issue of competition between manufacturers to improve quality and drive down prices. If you want to take on the AR platform, then you need to do that.

 

Question: how did it happen that so many manufacturers were allowed to make the AR-15, even though it was once a Colt/Armalite design?