Camden makes the ABC World News

[hopper 36]

So on the World News the police chief of camden said they are going to "PRIORITIZE " calls in Camden , so heres how i see it .You go to a concert at the Susquhanna Bank Center and your car gets broken into , they steal your GPS , Radar Detector and stuff , Cheif says tough SH*T not a priority , you go to a Riversharks baseball game and you and your buddies get jumped and robbed , AHH not a priority , or how bout you take your family to the Aqarium and you get ran into by some drunkin crackhead smashing into your car , AHH not a priority , so as i see it unless you get murdered it probably wont be a PRIORITY , my suggestion STAY OUT OF CAMDEN !!!!!

[quikz 34]

I saw that too.

 

Sadly, Camden was a 'close runner-up' to being Number 1 Murder Capital, I have a sneaky suspicion that we will take that "Title" back (YET AGAIN ) for the next year.

 

Camden....

[PistolWhip 13]

Camden has been the #1, 2nd or 3rd deadliest city in the nation, per capita, for years. It's nothing new and on the latest poll, it was ranked #2....

 

Being that I grew up in the Camden area and have lived and worked here all my life, all I can say is, move as far away from this place as possible. The cancer of that city has been slowly moving outward in all directions since the 80's and this is only going to speed it up.

[Ray Ray 3,566]

My wifes sisters went to school at Temple, which is in North Philly. I thought that was the scariest place on earth, and I've been to some ratholes. Then I went threw Camden to pick up one of my wifes sisters friends, wow. If I had to go back I'd carry 3 guns without a permit. Wow.

[Nick S 2]

The reality is that calls get prioritized all the time. Nobody ever mentions it. When the department is busy they calls go into a que and get handled based on a priority rating.

 

The sad thing is that they don't talk about WHY the jobs had to be cut? The fact that the City of Camden is broke and not getting as much state aid due to budget cuts that had to be made in order to keep the state out of bankruptcy. Camden can't raise it's tax rate or people will vacate there quick because they already have a high tax and crime rate and people are not going to stand for paying such high taxes and still having such a high crime rate. The first responders in Camden are at a greater risk because of the higher crime rates in the area. Yes they realize this when they take the job and it's part of the inherent risk that they take every day knowingly and willingly to protect the citizens.

[PistolWhip 13]

sir, I don't even like driving through that toilet with a handgun on my hip, a full auto M4 next to me in a rack, a Remington 1187 above my head in a rack, body armor on and in a Police car.... I certainly don't like driving through there in street clothes.

[Sigman 41]

I worked in Camden for a couple of years installing fare collection equipment for the PATCO train line. The Walter Rand station is like Night of the Living Dead at night. Crack heads and zombies all over the place. It's scary in the day time.

[PistolWhip 13]

The reality is that calls get prioritized all the time. Nobody ever mentions it. When the department is busy they calls go into a que and get handled based on a priority rating.

 

The sad thing is that they don't talk about WHY the jobs had to be cut? The fact that the City of Camden is broke and not getting as much state aid due to budget cuts that had to be made in order to keep the state out of bankruptcy. Camden can't raise it's tax rate or people will vacate there quick because they already have a high tax and crime rate and people are not going to stand for paying such high taxes and still having such a high crime rate. The first responders in Camden are at a greater risk because of the higher crime rates in the area. Yes they realize this when they take the job and it's part of the inherent risk that they take every day knowingly and willingly to protect the citizens.

 

 

They got $115 million in state aid in 2010.... I know they didn't pave a road with it cause you need a new kidney after driving down just about any road in the city, so where in the hell did it all go? Teachers and schools? They have like a 12% graduation rate and the kids from Camden that do want an edjucation use school choice to go to Camden Catholic, Pennsauken High, Cherry Hill, Gloucester, etc.... It's just very odd that $68 million on top of whatever taxes they did collect, isn't enough to run that city. I mean really, $115 million!!

[hopper 36]

sir, I don't even like driving through that toilet with a handgun on my hip, a full auto M4 next to me in a rack, a Remington 1187 above my head in a rack, body armor on and in a Police car.... I certainly don't like driving through there in street clothes.

Wow, i think you just confirmed my thoughts of not attending some concerts there , especially if you take the " scenic route " that takes you to the Susquahanna Bank Center , you know , the exit off 76 , i think its 4b that goes through the industrial part !!!

[PistolWhip 13]

LOL

Yeah, exit 4 puts you down on Kaihn Ave and takes you down to Broadway which is the center of the toilet... If you keep going straight on Kaihn it will take you into the pretty much vacant now, industrial center.

It's not bad if you know where your going and stay on the main roads (like Broadway, MLK, Mickel Blvd, etc...) but if you start trying to take "short cuts" your liable to end up in a bit of trouble. Just not worth it.

[quikz 34]

Ironically....

 

I would be willing to bet, if you installed CCW reform in Camden with a FL or PA style CCW requirement but w/ a few more checks, (Tho this will NEVER happen and it would be easier to terraform Mars,) we may see an actual decrease in the overall crime rate in Camden. It may not be the first week or month, but perhaps after a couple years.

 

But oh well..Just a God-forsaken thought. Back to something more feasible like my dream of owning the first Casino Paradise on my newly terraformed tract of real estate on Mars.

[hopper 36]

LOL

Yeah, exit 4 puts you down on Kaihn Ave and takes you down to Broadway which is the center of the toilet... If you keep going straight on Kaihn it will take you into the pretty much vacant now, industrial center.

It's not bad if you know where your going and stay on the main roads (like Broadway, MLK, Mickel Blvd, etc...) but if you start trying to take "short cuts" your liable to end up in a bit of trouble. Just not worth it.

Man they should give you a tank or armored humvee to patrol there , be safe !!!!!

[PistolWhip 13]

Thankfully I don't work for Camden City and don't have to spend a ton of time there. I do appreciate the sentiments though.

[Nick S 2]

They got $115 million in state aid in 2010.... I know they didn't pave a road with it cause you need a new kidney after driving down just about any road in the city, so where in the hell did it all go? Teachers and schools? They have like a 12% graduation rate and the kids from Camden that do want an edjucation use school choice to go to Camden Catholic, Pennsauken High, Cherry Hill, Gloucester, etc.... It's just very odd that $68 million on top of whatever taxes they did collect, isn't enough to run that city. I mean really, $115 million!!

 

I misspoke apparently and I do appreciate your correcting me. I am not sure where they are spending their money because I haven't seen their budget. I shouldn't have made the comments I did. I think it's sad that so many people want to write off the town. The money went somewhere and obviously the politicians that were elected felt it shouldn't go to the PD or FD...which I completely disagree with. The question that needs to be answered is where the money went.

 

Someone else commented that the crime rates were high with a full staffing of the FD and PD and that maybe now the remaining PD will get to work on fixing the problem. I disagree with that. Less cops means they will have a harder time getting things under control and responding to the incidents that they have. They will be spread thin and become unmotivated to work. I've seen it happen in other areas of the country. That won't help the situation at all.

 

I saw a similar situation when I lived in an area of Arkansas that was a low economic area. They had a high crime rate and the citizens had a mindset that they had no other way of survival but to have the victim mentality and that got the city no where fast.It's only getting worse too. I don't know what the answer is but I hope Camden finds a better solution.

 

I'm not sure what the answer is but I think taking the PD and FD and reducing the departments is a mistake without any other solution. Unfortunately the money is going somewhere and it's not going to the needed programs currently to protect the citizens.

 

Again all of this is just my 2 cents worth...I do wish the City of Camden luck in getting things improved to make the city a place people do not want to avoid at all costs.

[BRN169 6]

You all sound like a bunch of pussies... Come on; how bad can it possibly be? After all this is NJ, we have the nation’s toughest gun laws, what are you worried about... LOL

 

They should make every state politician drive through there on their way to and from work every day...

 

BTW I'd feel safer driving through if I wasn't in a patrol car... Just saying with the Bloods threatening cops and all those things might actually become bullet magnets...

[PistolWhip 13]

LOL, good point BRN169...

 

The place really is a toilet, but the people that make the decisions in this state would never know. Sitting nice and warm and comfortable in their Moorstown, Mt. Laurel, Medford, mansions... At least the south side, don't know where the mighty pontiffs lay their heads in the north.

[Ray Ray 3,566]

don't know where the mighty pontiffs lay their heads in the north.

 

The Caldwell's, Colts Neck, Ho-Ho-Kus, Morristown, and Hoboken for our outed Governer

[djg0770 481]

Camden's solution

 

 

ALL GUNS TO PORT, ELEVATION ZERO, FIRE WHEN READY!!!

[PistolWhip 13]

LOL!! That's F'n great!!!

[PistolWhip 13]

On a side note, anyone watching Conan? He just made a joke about Camden's Police layoffs.

[kwadz 11]

I work in Camden near the Aquarium part of town. I talked to my wife Monday night about carrying my P3AT to work, but we decided that if by some chance the cops started to get resentful and spitefully pulled over "business people" or "outsiders" and started searching, I could end up like Brian Aitken. With a 10-mo-old daughter and wife at home, it's just not worth that chance. But then again, is it worth the chance of getting killed instead? This is how sick our state really is. I have to choose between driving unarmed through the most dangerous city with half its police force or rick going to jail with a felony/misdemeanor charge. My decision was just to keep a stupid can of wasp spray on the seat next to me all the time. I know it won't do much good, but it's better than nothing.

[Sigman 41]

I work in Camden near the Aquarium part of town. I talked to my wife Monday night about carrying my P3AT to work, but we decided that if by some chance the cops started to get resentful and spitefully pulled over "business people" or "outsiders" and started searching, I could end up like Brian Aitken. With a 10-mo-old daughter and wife at home, it's just not worth that chance. But then again, is it worth the chance of getting killed instead? This is how sick our state really is. I have to choose between driving unarmed through the most dangerous city with half its police force or rick going to jail with a felony/misdemeanor charge. My decision was just to keep a stupid can of wasp spray on the seat next to me all the time. I know it won't do much good, but it's better than nothing.

 

Hey - that wasp spray is wicked shiit. Wasps drop like stones on contact. I imagine a face full of that crap would be pretty nasty. Do you think a can of pepper spray may be better?

[Krdshrk 3,878]

Can we just wall off Camden?

[kwadz 11]

Hey - that wasp spray is wicked shiit. Wasps drop like stones on contact. I imagine a face full of that crap would be pretty nasty. Do you think a can of pepper spray may be better?

 

I have pepper spray, too, but it's only sold (legally) in 3/4oz or less. The wasp spray would last much longer and allow me to spray off many more attackers. Meanwhile, I'd be dead with a few 9mm wounds. Thanks, NJ.

[Bob2222 317]

I work in Camden near the Aquarium part of town. I talked to my wife Monday night about carrying my P3AT to work, but we decided that if by some chance the cops started to get resentful and spitefully pulled over "business people" or "outsiders" and started searching, I could end up like Brian Aitken. With a 10-mo-old daughter and wife at home, it's just not worth that chance. But then again, is it worth the chance of getting killed instead? This is how sick our state really is. I have to choose between driving unarmed through the most dangerous city with half its police force or rick going to jail with a felony/misdemeanor charge. My decision was just to keep a stupid can of wasp spray on the seat next to me all the time. I know it won't do much good, but it's better than nothing.

 

If you need to go to Camden because you work there -- and I know it's even more "politically incorrect" than CCW in New Jersey -- but have you considered a "large" SUV? You can probably do more damage to a bad guy with one than with a handgun.

 

We haven't been to the Aquarium in at least ten years. I think we'll wait until the whole city is razed before we go again.

[bulpup 98]

I work in Camden near the Aquarium part of town. I talked to my wife Monday night about carrying my P3AT to work, but we decided that if by some chance the cops started to get resentful and spitefully pulled over "business people" or "outsiders" and started searching, I could end up like Brian Aitken. With a 10-mo-old daughter and wife at home, it's just not worth that chance. But then again, is it worth the chance of getting killed instead?

 

You think about your being taken away from your daughter as a prisoner so you don't bring a handgun with you to work.....so you can risk being taken away from her in a box.

 

How f'ed up is that? What a state we live in.

[mcbethr 42]

I work in Camden near the Aquarium part of town. I talked to my wife Monday night about carrying my P3AT to work, but we decided that if by some chance the cops started to get resentful and spitefully pulled over "business people" or "outsiders" and started searching, I could end up like Brian Aitken.

 

I thought about this for a while.

 

Fact is... we live in a nation of laws. If we don't respect the law, we have anarchy.

 

For one reason or another, the people of our state have decided that concealed carry is not a priority. You may think it is wrong, it is silly or it is dangerous, but the fact is that it is still the law. We are free to petition for redress, speak out against the law, elect new assemblymen to change the law, or move to a place that is more gun-friendly.

 

There are people who know that I shoot skeet. I don't hide it, and I invite friends and neighbors to come with me whenever I can. Some don't like the fact that I own shotguns. Some don't approve of it. One woman will not let her child play with my son at my house, even though everything is locked up in a safe. But these people don't harass me about it. I've never come out to my car to see the words: "Orange Clay Killer" scratched in the door. My anti-gun neighbors may not like the laws that let me own guns, but they have never done anything illegal to prevent me from exercising my rights.

 

If my anti-gun neighbors abide by the laws that let us keep arms, we gun owners must abide by the laws that allow us to bear them. Not doing so violates the principles that we hold dear as Americans. We resolve our differences with votes, not anarchy.

 

I have no desire to carry a gun anywhere, but I do believe that it is our right to do it and I would support any responsible citizen that makes that choice. But if we violate the law, we are no better than the criminals.

 

-Bether

[PistolWhip 13]

kwadz, I understand your quandary and I don't envy you in the current state of affairs. The only advice I can offer you that isn't the expected and typical "cop" answer is to make sure that you are at a heightened level of awareness at all times when in that city. Don't live scared, just live aware. Whether you choose to carry your weapon or you choose to be creative like you have been with the wasp spray (which by the way, they say is more effective than pepper spray and actually requires a hospital visit to relieve its affects), keep yourself attentive to whats going on around you at all times and envision escape routes whenever possible. These are practices that I have come accustom to from work and its almost second nature now. I don't even think about it anymore, no matter where I am I just do it.

For instance, when I pull to a stop at a red light, I keep at least half a car inbetween me and the car in front of me. That way I can turn in either direction and get out without hitting the car in front of me, or being boxed in. When I'm the lead car, I look across the intersection for the most likely route of non impact. When I'm stopped for extended periods of time, I constantly scan through my mirrors so as not to appear that I'm "staring" but still am aware of everyone around me.

 

These are obviously just examples of alertness in traffic and you should start practicing being aware in all situations. Eventually it will become second nature and you won't believe what you actually see, that you never even noticed before.

 

Awareness is the greatest defense we have to attackers that rely on surprise, shock and fear. Even an armed victim will still be a victim if they are overtaken by surprise, shock and fear. If you can see it coming before it develops and make adjustments to sway the surprise into your own favor, you've effectively defended yourself from the attack. Sadly in the City of Camden, if you find yourself in a situation that can not be avoided with awareness and escape, your likely to be over the limit of being defended by a P3AT as well.

 

Honestly and hole heartedly, I'm sorry that you have to live any part of your life in fear, its a serious failure on the side of Law Enforcement as a hole in this state and I can't even begin to tell you how frustrated it makes me (and I don't even work in the City).

[PK90 3,573]

... But if we violate the law, we are no better than the criminals.

 

-Bether

 

If the law were changed to prohibit any firearm possession, would you abide by the law and turn them in?

[mcbethr 42]

If the law were changed to prohibit any firearm possession, would you abide by the law and turn them in?

 

You pose a very interesting question.

 

I don't foresee something like this happening anytime soon. For this to happen, we would need the population of 38 states to agree to modify the 2nd Amendment. About 230,000,000 people would suddenly have to agree that they didn't need their guns anymore. I can tell you that from personal experience, many people in New Jersey are not exactly anti-gun, they are just ambivalent about them. My wife is one of those people. She doesn't like guns, but she doesn't mind the fact that they exist and that people can purchase them with restrictions. Would citizens in our state vote to repeal the second amendment? I don't know. I think that even people who don't own guns would prefer to be able to buy one if they thought it was needed. I point to the Los Angeles riots, where many non-owners flocked to gun stores during that crisis, only to be told that they had to wait 10 days before taking delivery. If something like that ever happened in New Jersey and all of those wealthy middle aged men who were ambivalent about guns suddenly had their rights denied, those FID laws would be repealed very quickly.

 

I know there is precedent for citizens willingly disarming. This happened in England back in 1997, where citizens who could afford it sent their handguns to clubs in France. Other citizens dutifully turned in their handguns to be destroyed. But England is somewhat different. There is more respect for authority and willingness to submit to the government there. Years ago, there was a TV show called "The Weakest Link," where a strict British woman berated contestants about their stupidity when the contestants answered trivia questions incorrectly. The show was a hit in England, but it failed here. I'd imagine that it failed because the average American does not easily cow to authority.

 

I suppose I could live with the satisfaction of saying that I wouldn't need to turn in my guns because I don't own any of the guns that people seem intent on banning. Skeet shooters would probably be the last people effected by any sort of ban since our guns tend to be of obvious sporting intent. People have seen skeet played in the Olympics and on cruise ships. But I always take the side of the pistol shooters, CCW guys and black rifle fans because I've never forgot that Martin Niemoller poem: "First they came for the Jews..."

 

By the time they come for the skeet shooters, nobody will be left to speak out for me.

 

But I haven't answered your question, have I?

 

I think that if our country ever got to that point, there would be an insurrection. It's hard to imagine me dutifully turning in my Berettas at a police station. Of course, it is equally hard to imagine a balding, middle-aged man storming the barricades with an Over/Under in one hand and a Molotov in the other. Both extremes are unlikely and both extremes are very frighting.

 

Back when Germany marched into Austria, it was all perfectly legal. Gun restrictions for Jews and gun registration in general was also perfectly legal. Turning your Jewish neighbors into the police was perfectly legal as well. But my wife is alive today because Christians in Austria helped spirit her grandmother out of the country, in violation of the law. I suppose there are times when you know in your heart that a law is wrong. The real question is whether I would have the courage to do the right thing, whatever that right thing may be.

 

And I honestly don't know. But we have to make sure that it never comes to that.