NJ: Another Anti-Gun Bill Introduced in Trenton

[mggtz 3]

 

This is what I wrote to Assemblyman Louis D. Greenwald facebook page:

 

Mr. Assemblyman, please explain how the proposed AB3807 in anyway helps anyone. So, instead of introducing a bill that would be helpful, you are trying to introduce that would be unhelpful? Criminals are going to commit crimes BECAUSE they are criminal and do not care about the law anyway. Please introduce a bill t...hat would help the cause of limited government and protection of individual liberties, moreover, laws on the books that one can stand your ground in self defense and concealed carry laws that mirror the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania would be the start. The people of New Jersey deserve better from elected officials and are entitled to their rights endowed from their creator as free men from birth.

 

[JohnKimble 4]

Dont forget to send the other assemblywoman the same thing....you can only message her.

http://www.facebook.com/search.php?q=Annette+Quijano&init=quick&tas=0.09594639470250677#!/pages/Assemblywoman-Annette-Quijano/83934678705

[YankeeFan 49]

WTF! I just ordered 3 15-rd mags for my SP-01...

[mggtz 3]

Dont forget to send the other assemblywoman the same thing....you can only message her.

http://www.facebook....ano/83934678705

 

Done..!

[n4p226r 105]

That was my first thought. Has anyone seen a copy of this bill?

 

Knowing NJ, they will outlaw possession of 11-15 round mags, and have no legal method for disposing of them, thereby turning practically everyone on this forum into instant felons.

 

 

oh well. i've been looking for a reason to pick up more magazines. i guess this is as good as any. just picked up 2 magazines for a gun i own without a slide. go figure.

[JohnKimble 4]

Done..!

 

 

You called her Mr Assemblywoman!!! LOL!!!! THATS CLASSIC!!! :icon_e_biggrin: :icon_e_biggrin:

[mggtz 3]

You called her Mr Assemblywoman!!! LOL!!!! THATS CLASSIC!!! :icon_e_biggrin: :icon_e_biggrin:

 

DOH, oh well..they don't care what we say anyway....they are stuck in libetardia anyhow.!

[mcbethr 42]

Ok, hold on everybody.

 

Deep breath.

 

Let's get our ducks in a row here first.

 

#1. We haven't even seen the text of the law.

#2. We don't know if this law will ever get out of committee.

#3. We have a Republican governor who will draw the ire of the RNC if he even thinks of signing this into law.

#4. This is an election year. I think that this issue would be plutonium for some politicians, even Democrats.

#5. NJ has a population of about 8.7 million. Of that roughly 6.7 million are adults. If we estimate 12% gun ownership, this means that we have roughly 804,000 gun owners. This is larger than the standing armies of Britain, France, German, Spain, Portugal, Belgium, Austria and Italy COMBINED! That, my friends, is a lot of letters, and a lot of votes.

 

I would also concentrate on the fact that a law like this could potentially turn 804,000 gun owners into instant felons, especially those that own a Henry lever-action rifle.

 

I would also propose a change in language. Call the 15 round magazines "Factory Standard Magazines." Call the 10 round magazines "Legislatively Reduced Capacity Magazines."

 

We have to play Realpolitik on this one. Be polite. Be respectful and let's see where this goes.

[Cemeterys Gun Blob 165]

When the bill does get published, we'll have to all brainstorm on how we can compose letters without coming off half cocked. We'll probably have to play with the anti's tricks. Cause remember, when it comes to activism, facts don't matter to those with the power to push legislation, unless it hits them in the pocket book.

[n4p226r 105]

Poor people can't afford new magazines

[kenw 293]

Poor people can't afford new magazines

And since many poor people are minorities, the bill is racist.

[Bob2222 317]

As long as Christie is Governor, I doubt anything like this will get signed into law. Of course, Christie probably isn't going to be Governor forever.

 

I believe that one of the reasons for the resurgence of interest in the .45 ACP round was the magazine limits in the original AWB. So instead of many smaller bullets, Congress legislated fewer but larger bullets.

 

Since the general operating philosophy of our NJ legislators and Congress is that "a really futile and stupid gesture be done on somebody's part", I've purchased a few extra 10-round mags for everything years ago. (They're usually pretty cheap.)

 

I'm sure my cousin in Texas will be very happy if he receives a package of >10 round mags in the mail someday!

[sig2009 3]

Why not just hammer the sponsor here

 

http://www.facebook.com/lougreenwald?v=wall

I'd love to post something on his wall but I see there is nowhere to post a comment.

[vladtepes 1,060]

I'd love to post something on his wall but I see there is nowhere to post a comment.

 

 

I went to the link as well.. I got lost when all I saw was a button for "like".. if any of you find the "hate" button let me know so I can get on there..

[vladtepes 1,060]

That was my first thought. Has anyone seen a copy of this bill?

 

Knowing NJ, they will outlaw possession of 11-15 round mags, and have no legal method for disposing of them, thereby turning practically everyone on this forum into instant felons.

 

 

I will pack them up neatly in my car and head 2 hours west... slightly ahead of schedule.. but problem solved..

[Cemeterys Gun Blob 165]

I'm surprised this thread went 3 pages without somebody saying they'd accept this limitation as long as they could get CCW in NJ.

[vladtepes 1,060]

I'm surprised this thread went 3 pages without somebody saying they'd accept this limitation as long as they could get CCW in NJ.

 

 

LOLz

[djg0770 481]

My email to MPC:

 

Michael,

 

I hope you are doing your best to get this squashed. We need to go in the

OPPOSITE direction in NJ. With the recent substantial layoffs of Police

throughout NJ, we need the ability to protect ourselves, not another law

removing our rights.

 

"Assembly Bill 3807, sponsored by Assemblyman Louis D. Greenwald (D-6) and

Assemblyman Annette Quijano (D-20), has been introduced in the New Jersey

Assembly. If passed, A3807 would reduce the maximum capacity of ammunition

magazines to 10 rounds from 15. This legislation is an example of yet

another attempt to restrict the rights of law-abiding citizens, while

doing nothing to actually combat crime."

 

 

His response:

Maybe we should insist on derringers. After all, one bad guy, one bullet, right?

I like a guy with humor!

[axeman_g 128]

You know what... this state is so screwed right now, you could probably get CCW passed if you made it with a stipulation that "Firearm eligible to be use as Concealed Carry weapons have barrel length no longer then 2" and have the ability to have a capacity no greater then 2 rounds."

 

I bet it would fly.

[PDM 91]

My one word question to Mr. Greenwald is: "Why?" For the moment, let's put aside the Constitution and the question of who needs or doesn't need 10 vs 15 round magazines. The fundamental problem here is that we have two legislators proposing a bill that will restrict previously lawful activity AND, at best, restrict the transferrability and thus the value of literally millions of dollars of legally purchased and owned merchandise. Why 10 rounds? Why not 5 or 7? Why not 20? What empirical evidence does Mr. Greenwald have that reducing the capacity of magazines will contribute one iota to public safety? Of course we know that he has none. He and his fellow travellers are simply throwing crap up against a wall and hoping something sticks. No one can believe that is sensible legislation, whatever one's stand on the gun issue. Here is the letter I sent him:

 

"Representative Greenwald

I am writing regarding NJ Bill A3807 that you are sponsoring. I have not yet seen a published copy of the bill, but I understand that it will reduce the allowed capacity of ammunition magazines from 15 to 10 under NJ law.

I am quite certain that I am as concerned about public safety as you are. I do, however, believe that good legislation should serve some rational purpose. What rational purpose does your proposed bill serve? What evidence do you have that 10 rounds, as opposed to 15 rounds, will increase public safety one iota? If you have no empirical evidence, what leads you to that conclusion? Why 10 rounds? Why not 8, or 6?

 

While I am quite certain that your bill, if enacted, will not save one life or make anyone safer, I will tell you what your bill will do. Even if there is a "grandfather clause" in the bill (which I assume it will contain to prevent hundreds of thousands or perhaps millions of NJ citizens from becoming instant felons), the bill will significantly decrease the value of hundreds of thousands or millions of firearms in private hands in this State. It will greatly increase the risk that anyone found in possession of a magazine above the 10 round limit -- even if that magazine was legally purchased prior to the ban-- will be subject to false arrest and perhaps wrongful prosecution. It will render it impossible for individuals to pass many types of firearms to their heirs through their estates. It will create additional confusion and legal risk for the millions of law abiding firearms owners in this State, in violation of their Second Amendment rights, with absolutely no corresponding benefit. It will needlessly open up the state to further expensive litigation."

I hope that you carefully considered these issues before sponsoring this bill, and jumping on the national gun control bandwagon that unfortunately arose to exploit the horrible tragedy in Arizona.

[n4p226r 105]

Am I the only one that thinks something like this has a better chance at passing than not AND christie will sign it?

[OBRAMS 8]

 

Representative GreenwaldI am writing regarding NJ Bill A3807 that you are sponsoring. I have not yet seen a published copy of the bill, but I understand that it will reduce the allowed capacity of ammunition magazines from 15 to 10 under NJ law.I am quite certain that I am as concerned about public safety as you are. I do, however, believe that good legislation should serve some rational purpose. What rational purpose does your proposed bill serve? What evidence do you have that 10 rounds, as opposed to 15 rounds, will increase public safety one iota? If you have no empirical evidence, what leads you to that conclusion? Why 10 rounds? Why not 8, or 6?

 

While I am quite certain that your bill, if enacted, will not save one life or make anyone safer, I will tell you what your bill will do. Even if there is a "grandfather clause" in the bill (which I assume it will contain to prevent hundreds of thousands or perhaps millions of NJ citizens from becoming instant felons), the bill will significantly decrease the value of hundreds of thousands or millions of firearms in private hands in this State.

 

It will greatly increase the risk that anyone found in possession of a magazine above the 10 round limit -- even if that magazine was legally purchased prior to the ban-- will be subject to false arrest and perhaps wrongful prosecution. It will render it impossible for individuals to pass many types of firearms to their heirs through their estates. It will create additional confusion and legal risk for the millions of law abiding firearms owners in this State, in violation of their Second Amendment rights, with absolutely no corresponding benefit. It will needlessly open up the state to further expensive litigation."I hope that you carefully considered these issues before sponsoring this bill, and jumping on the national gun control bandwagon that unfortunately arose to exploit the horrible tragedy in Arizona.

 

 

Excellent letter !!!!!

[kenw 293]

Am I the only one that thinks something like this has a better chance at passing than not AND christie will sign it?

Nope. Not the only one.

[JohnKimble 4]

Well its day 2 and only 3 people have sent messages to this guy. He posted his sponsoring of the bill and 'liked' it as well.

All you need to do to post on his page is hit 'like' on the top and then post. Once you are done posting, you can 'unlike' him on the lower left hand side of the page, gotta scroll down...

Its a shame that some people think this will do anything.

 

Make sure you mention, 'did you get permission from Norcross to do this?' to rankle the guy a bit as he is in George Norcross's pocket...

[Cemeterys Gun Blob 165]

If anybody is posting to Facebook pages, be polite. We can't give Bryan Miller fuel to his fire of gun owners being a crazed extremist bunch.

[halbautomatisch 60]

My one word question to Mr. Greenwald is: "Why?" For the moment, let's put aside the Constitution and the question of who needs or doesn't need 10 vs 15 round magazines. The fundamental problem here is that we have two legislators proposing a bill that will restrict previously lawful activity AND, at best, restrict the transferrability and thus the value of literally millions of dollars of legally purchased and owned merchandise. Why 10 rounds? Why not 5 or 7? Why not 20? What empirical evidence does Mr. Greenwald have that reducing the capacity of magazines will contribute one iota to public safety? Of course we know that he has none. He and his fellow travellers are simply throwing crap up against a wall and hoping something sticks. No one can believe that is sensible legislation, whatever one's stand on the gun issue. Here is the letter I sent him:

 

 

The problem here is that you are injecting logic into the debate. There was no factual reason to pass OGAM or the AWB, but they did anyway saying it's "common sense legislation" which really means "we don't have a logical basis for this legislation". The reason they do this is purely for political gain. They will claim to be tough on crime, and if a few gun owners get locked up and their lives ruined as a result, so be it. Greenwald wants to be Governor some day, this is going to play well with the liberal media and he knows it.

 

I still think the gun rights organizations should have sued Corzine for fraud when he passed OGAM, not that I think they could have won, but it would have created a lot of press that would expose the fact that straw buying is almost non existent in NJ and this was only a political ploy - a ploy that could ruin some peoples lives if you miscount the days between purchases.

[SoR 4]

Why 10 and not 8, or 6? First it will be 10, then it will be 5, then it will be 1 and eventually none. Just give it enough time (this is like frog in a pan theory). I was joking with my friends few years back how you'll have the right to bear arms but you won't be allowed to own bullets. Fast forward few years and it seems we're getting there.

[Turbotezza 1]

I wouldn't be supprised if he "sacrificed" us responsible firearm owners to appease some of the libs he has offended thus far.

 

Nope. Not the only one.

[tommy3rd 132]

What evidence do you have that 10 rounds, as opposed to 15 rounds, will increase public safety one iota? If you have no empirical evidence, what leads you to that conclusion? Why 10 rounds? Why not 8, or 6?

thanks a lot for giving him an idea. Now he's gonna revise the bill to make it 6 rounds.I'm blaming you when that happens.

[Malsua 1,422]

6 rounds? Why not make it 1 round that requires a complete dis-assembly to change, like the FP-45 liberator.