Rudeness at CMO

[Duppie 73]

I have to ask again... Do the owners/operators of these businesses read and react to the posts on NJGF ? I, as a business owner would be extremely concerned at the overwhelming negative comments I read about my business. I know small business owners who have chalked it up to" you can't please everyone" but there comes a point where inevitably you stop trying , and that's a sure way to go out of business.Having managed large retail operations in NYC and NJ, up to 25% of my yearly bonuses was based on my location's CSI scores where sometimes as little as one minor complaint or misunderstanding could cost me several thousand dollars. It really makes you aware that without the good will and in turn,dollars of your customer you do not have a livelihood.

[Jeff 13]

I just had a decent experience there a couple weeks ago. I bought a new CX4 storm that was $50 less than Shore Shot. And still new in the box instead of hanging on the wall.

[lunker 274]

I just had a decent experience there a couple weeks ago. I bought a new CX4 storm that was $50 less than Shore Shot. And still new in the box instead of hanging on the wall.

 

I don't know if prices are negotiable at CMO, but they are at Shore Shot. Asking "Is that the best price you can give me" will often knock a fair amount off the price there.

[petros600 12]

2 of the best(prices and service) FFL's in New Jersey in my book

 

 

 

Use the FFLs here, much better than this place.

 

PK90 and TJ love to throw guns at you, they make you feel like little kids in a toy store.

[bry@n 195]

If you have so many complaints about the place, why do you keep going in there?

 

If I hate a place, I do everything I can to steer $$ away from them. I don't continue to walk in there and get abused.

 

Also, if the guy treats you like a jerk, do the same back. Say something like you must not be too bright because you bring it up all the time and I say I don't want to talk about it.

 

The fact that you conitue to go in there and then complain, makes me wonder who the problem really is?

[jjchrissy 0]

Reading all these negative reviews does discourage people from going there. However, I'm lucky I went there anyway and checked it out myself. CMO and NJFG is the closest gun shop around me. I normally go to Shore Shot, but they didn’t have what I wanted in stock and I couldn’t wait. NJFG was way over priced.

 

I had a negative attitude about the place when I was going there. I was expecting a bunch of militants standing around and waiting to abuse people they perceive as non buyers because of the many bad reviews. When I got there, I had an unwelcome greet by a stuff bear at the entrance, a lady with a GI Jane hair cut and some guy with a cold stare who might be the owner. I didn’t let that bother me and continue to the gun counter. They have a large selection of hand guns and long guns. I walked around looking at the counters expecting the workers to ignore me. The exact opposite happened. An older guy, Fred, came right up and asked if I needed any help. We talked and he showed me any pistol I asked to handle. While I was checking the guns, I did not let him know if I had any intention to buy. He was very helpful and was not pushy at all. I purchased an XD9 and he showed me how to field strip it, even thought I knew how. The prices were descent compare to other gun stores. You have to know your prices.

 

Scrap, if you were being helped by Fred, why let the “Rat” guy bother you? Ignore him and buy from Fred. Then he’ll know he lost a sale.

 

Over all I had a good experience at the place. I would go back and shop when I’m eligible to buy again (countdown started).

[lunker 274]

Glad to hear you had a good experience there.

[Motofan 10]

Good experiences only at CMO. Bought from Fred.

[NJJim 37]

I have to chime in here.

 

I have been browsing at Cheyenne Mountain Outfitters since they opened. And, Harry's before that before some of you were born. The store is only 10 or 15 minutes away from my home and business.

 

I have never bought anything over $40.00 there and never treated poorly. I have fondled many a firearm there and never bought. If they are busy and I know I'm not in the market to buy, I will tell salesperson to "go ahead see what they want". The last time I was there the owner waited on me and showed me at least 8 different handguns. He was very friendly. I have never dealt with Omar. If he is the guy I think he is I won't. He is obnoxious. Everyone else has always been helpful and friendly.

 

Sportsman's Center is another story. Fritz is a good guy and I would deal with him if possible. I went there a couple of years ago with permit and cash to buy a Kimber Eclipse and walked out with the permit and cash still in my pocket even though I went there because they had the gun. Asshole behind the counter that day. I swore off for a year and a half and recently went back and was treated OK but they don't have much to offer.

[Smokin .50 1,907]

I don't have all of these problems. If/when I go to a gun shop, it's to pick up this or that (gun oil, a box of shells, cleaning patches, etc.) and get outta there. If I look at the glass pistol cases and someone comes over and asks to help me, I just let 'em know I'm window shopping and aren't buying anything. They usually say, "Thanks, and if you change your mind, just let me know", and they move-on to the next customer that's drooling on the glass. That way the sales staff isn't wasting their valuable time. They actually do appreciate being told in a nice way that "I'm NOT buying an expensive item" so that they can move on to the next "impatient" customer. I'm not an impatient newbie that wants to handle every gun in the store and ask a million stupid questions. I deliberately limit the number of questions I ask so as to not take too much of a counter-person's time, especially when the store is busy, out of respect for the folks who work there. I already have enough guns (just ask my Wife). If I ask to see something off the rack, it's because I'm seriously interested in adding it to my collection, NOT TO CONFIRM A MAIL-ORDER PURCHASE DECISION that I've already made (I see this ALL of the time, and some whack-jobs actually can be heard saying they just bought this or that from the "Very Big Mail-Order Company"). And some of the time, after figuring-out the shipping, NICS and transfer fees, they've spent more than what the brick & mortar store would have sold the gun for! Whereas I already have my FID in my hand or on the counter, so no time is wasted. Try it some time. Be the guy with your card already out & visible to the sales staff and you'll be treated well in most cases.

 

I see both sides of this unfortunate situation as I deal with the public and it isn't fun any more. There's the 80-20 rule in retail. 80% of your customers net 20% profit and 20% of your customers yield 80% of your store's profit. A good sales person will sort-out (over a period of time, with multiple non-sales visits) just where YOU fall into the mix. When a place gets busy, the staff has to prioritize who they deal with. People will beat you up for a dollar! Each establishment has it's own "personality", and some places sub-specialize in certain areas/disciplines. No one place is all things to all shooters. I try to get along with everybody and in my 40+ years of shooting I've been to every store mentioned in this thread in a negative light. Some of the problems they bring-on themselves, and others are created by the problem customers that they're stuck dealing with. Still others are the result of some sort of mutual misunderstanding that's not too late to correct.

 

Bottom line, as Vlad G. said, we need to keep the stores open so that new shooters have a place to go so the sport stays profitable to the Mom & Pops. Without them, we ALL lose!

 

Some advise from a seasoned buyer:

 

1. Know what you want and what it's worth to you before you walk in the door.

 

2. Seek advice about guns from the people that shoot THOSE guns, not just SELL them!

 

3. Resist the temptation to waste time DROOLING over the entire counter. Narrow your search before you get there.

 

4. NEVER ask to see a gun you already have in your collection. You're not going to buy a second identical one anyway (unless you're a serious collector).

 

5. Do your research by reading well-known writers that SHOOT. Cooper, Jordan, the famous Israeli, a discipline-specific national champion, etc. No need to re-invent the wheel here!

 

6. BUY SOMETHING! Even if it's just a can of Rem oil, it doesn't matter! You're now a customer instead of just a PITA tire-kicker, and you get a little more respect. When I go to a diner to relieve myself, I buy a cup of coffee to go, so the sign that says "Restrooms are for Customers ONLY" no longer applies to me.

 

7. Don't go into the store frustrated after a bad day at work, giving off bad vibes, with a chip on your shoulder, looking for a confrontation. You're in a Gun Store!

 

8. Expect to pay a little more for the pleasure of going to a brick & mortar store. As a business owner I could type War & Peace on what it takes to keep the doors open!

 

9. Make friends, NOT enemies. Establish a relationship. If you don't see something, don't be afraid to ask for it. Some of the smaller places will special order stuff and not even want a deposit.

 

10. Spend money with stores that support the sport. Sponsoring Matches, Days at The Range, Boy Scout Shoots, Wounded Warrior Projects, etc.

 

 

Hopefully no one will take what I've said the wrong way. I put it out here as merely an opinion, but one that's worked for me for all these years.

 

Dave

[Duppie 73]

I don't have all of these problems. If/when I go to a gun shop, it's to pick up this or that (gun oil, a box of shells, cleaning patches, etc.) and get outta there. If I look at the glass pistol cases and someone comes over and asks to help me, I just let 'em know I'm window shopping and aren't buying anything. They usually say, "Thanks, and if you change your mind, just let me know", and they move-on to the next customer that's drooling on the glass. That way the sales staff isn't wasting their valuable time. They actually do appreciate being told in a nice way that "I'm NOT buying an expensive item" so that they can move on to the next "impatient" customer. I'm not an impatient newbie that wants to handle every gun in the store and ask a million stupid questions. I deliberately limit the number of questions I ask so as to not take too much of a counter-person's time, especially when the store is busy, out of respect for the folks who work there. I already have enough guns (just ask my Wife). If I ask to see something off the rack, it's because I'm seriously interested in adding it to my collection, NOT TO CONFIRM A MAIL-ORDER PURCHASE DECISION that I've already made (I see this ALL of the time, and some whack-jobs actually can be heard saying they just bought this or that from the "Very Big Mail-Order Company"). And some of the time, after figuring-out the shipping, NICS and transfer fees, they've spent more than what the brick & mortar store would have sold the gun for! Whereas I already have my FID in my hand or on the counter, so no time is wasted. Try it some time. Be the guy with your card already out & visible to the sales staff and you'll be treated well in most cases.

 

I see both sides of this unfortunate situation as I deal with the public and it isn't fun any more. There's the 80-20 rule in retail. 80% of your customers net 20% profit and 20% of your customers yield 80% of your store's profit. A good sales person will sort-out (over a period of time, with multiple non-sales visits) just where YOU fall into the mix. When a place gets busy, the staff has to prioritize who they deal with. People will beat you up for a dollar! Each establishment has it's own "personality", and some places sub-specialize in certain areas/disciplines. No one place is all things to all shooters. I try to get along with everybody and in my 40+ years of shooting I've been to every store mentioned in this thread in a negative light. Some of the problems they bring-on themselves, and others are created by the problem customers that they're stuck dealing with. Still others are the result of some sort of mutual misunderstanding that's not too late to correct.

 

Bottom line, as Vlad G. said, we need to keep the stores open so that new shooters have a place to go so the sport stays profitable to the Mom & Pops. Without them, we ALL lose!

 

Some advise from a seasoned buyer:

 

1. Know what you want and what it's worth to you before you walk in the door.

 

2. Seek advice about guns from the people that shoot THOSE guns, not just SELL them!

 

3. Resist the temptation to waste time DROOLING over the entire counter. Narrow your search before you get there.

 

4. NEVER ask to see a gun you already have in your collection. You're not going to buy a second identical one anyway (unless you're a serious collector).

 

5. Do your research by reading well-known writers that SHOOT. Cooper, Jordan, the famous Israeli, a discipline-specific national champion, etc. No need to re-invent the wheel here!

 

6. BUY SOMETHING! Even if it's just a can of Rem oil, it doesn't matter! You're now a customer instead of just a PITA tire-kicker, and you get a little more respect. When I go to a diner to relieve myself, I buy a cup of coffee to go, so the sign that says "Restrooms are for Customers ONLY" no longer applies to me.

 

7. Don't go into the store frustrated after a bad day at work, giving off bad vibes, with a chip on your shoulder, looking for a confrontation. You're in a Gun Store!

 

8. Expect to pay a little more for the pleasure of going to a brick & mortar store. As a business owner I could type War & Peace on what it takes to keep the doors open!

 

9. Make friends, NOT enemies. Establish a relationship. If you don't see something, don't be afraid to ask for it. Some of the smaller places will special order stuff and not even want a deposit.

 

10. Spend money with stores that support the sport. Sponsoring Matches, Days at The Range, Boy Scout Shoots, Wounded Warrior Projects, etc.

 

 

Hopefully no one will take what I've said the wrong way. I put it out here as merely an opinion, but one that's worked for me for all these years.

 

Dave

You make good points and I too understand the dynamics between owner/operator and customer but it would seem that you place most of the impetus on the customer in the buying experience.... What is the actual responsibility of the customer service rep? To open the doors,display the merchandise,answer some mostly annoying and repetitive questions,take your payment and not go apeshit before closing?

Seems to be a rather jaundiced view of customer service don't you think?

Look ,we've all been to retail establishment where the service is either overly salacious,prefunctory at best,hostile,uninterested or smacking of the hard sell and then the educated customer walks out and shops on line..

The buying experience has to work both ways regardless of the "personality" and tone of the establishment and I believe we have lost sight of this very important fact.

By the way there seems to be quite a lot of drooling in your buying experience however I do tend to get excited in butcher shops and bakeries myself.

[MrP 81]

Just as an example, I recently stopped by Griffen and Howe which is just a 3 min drive for me. I had never been in before and knew that they sold beautiful (expensive) rifles and shotguns, and I was actually a little nervous about going in given that I wasn't planning to buy anything. The gentlemen who greeted me in the store was extremely nice, and encouraged me to go around and handle all the guns I wanted. I held/caressed/examined probably $900k worth of inventory, given that they price some of their shotguns at almost 200k+. If a gun store can not only allow but encourage a relatively poor college student to examine and shoulder at Fabbri O/U with a $196,000.00 pricetag, a local gun shop should let you touch their Mossbergs all you want.

[Smokin .50 1,907]

You make good points and I too understand the dynamics between owner/operator and customer but it would seem that you place most of the impetus on the customer in the buying experience.... What is the actual responsibility of the customer service rep? To open the doors,display the merchandise,answer some mostly annoying and repetitive questions,take your payment and not go apeshit before closing?

Seems to be a rather jaundiced view of customer service don't you think?

Look ,we've all been to retail establishment where the service is either overly salacious,prefunctory at best,hostile,uninterested or smacking of the hard sell and then the educated customer walks out and shops on line..

The buying experience has to work both ways regardless of the "personality" and tone of the establishment and I believe we have lost sight of this very important fact.

By the way there seems to be quite a lot of drooling in your buying experience however I do tend to get excited in butcher shops and bakeries myself.

 

Thanks Duppie! I agree with you that it takes two to Tango, for the good or the bad! The stores have to try to employ courteous, knowledgeable and responsible sales people. Nobody wants to deal with some of the sales people mentioned in this thread for all of the realistic reasons you & others have stated so well. Those kind of idiots tend to drive people away, or to give them the excuse of going the mail-order route. And a handshake or "hello, how can I help you" would go a long way towards repairing the damage already done by said idiots that either go overboard or forget that we're alive. We (the customers) have to come to the understanding that the stores are providing a service which has a price tag. The VALUE of being a good customer far outweighs the difference in what something costs. Let me explain. Shortages in the supply chain (primers, heads, factory ammo, powders, etc.) don't really effect me. I get what I need. If something pops into the store that might be of interest to me, they put it on the side and "tease" me with it upon my next arrival. I special order stuff all of the time, and have made recommendations for the store to stock certain items which they gladly sell to other shooters. If a customer walks in with a question that they know I can answer better (due to having shot that discipline for so long), they ask me for my opinion or advice, and I gladly give it and then invite the person to any of the (3) clubs that I'm a member of.

 

The bottom line: Developing a relationship with repeated purchasing and thus enabling the store to stay in business is more important to me than being able to brag on a forum how little I shortsightedly paid for this gun or that part. Hell, some of the places I go to want to know if I would like a cold/hot drink depending upon the time of year I walk through the door!

 

As far as the drooling goes, butcher shops & bakeries always get my juices going! I drive a hundred miles each way for smoked pork chops, bacon & PA Dutch wet-bottom Shu-Fly Pie! Even wrote an article about it, LOL!

 

Hope to bump into you some time for a coffee or a shoot.

 

Dave

[NicePants 58]

Just as an example, I recently stopped by Griffen and Howe which is just a 3 min drive for me. I had never been in before and knew that they sold beautiful (expensive) rifles and shotguns, and I was actually a little nervous about going in given that I wasn't planning to buy anything. The gentlemen who greeted me in the store was extremely nice, and encouraged me to go around and handle all the guns I wanted. I held/caressed/examined probably $900k worth of inventory, given that they price some of their shotguns at almost 200k+. If a gun store can not only allow but encourage a relatively poor college student to examine and shoulder at Fabbri O/U with a $196,000.00 pricetag, a local gun shop should let you touch their Mossbergs all you want.

 

Dude no way. I am so going there. Even if I probably wouldn't be able to afford their cheapest stuff.

[Duppie 73]

Thanks Duppie! I agree with you that it takes two to Tango, for the good or the bad! The stores have to try to employ courteous, knowledgeable and responsible sales people. Nobody wants to deal with some of the sales people mentioned in this thread for all of the realistic reasons you & others have stated so well. Those kind of idiots tend to drive people away, or to give them the excuse of going the mail-order route. And a handshake or "hello, how can I help you" would go a long way towards repairing the damage already done by said idiots that either go overboard or forget that we're alive. We (the customers) have to come to the understanding that the stores are providing a service which has a price tag. The VALUE of being a good customer far outweighs the difference in what something costs. Let me explain. Shortages in the supply chain (primers, heads, factory ammo, powders, etc.) don't really effect me. I get what I need. If something pops into the store that might be of interest to me, they put it on the side and "tease" me with it upon my next arrival. I special order stuff all of the time, and have made recommendations for the store to stock certain items which they gladly sell to other shooters. If a customer walks in with a question that they know I can answer better (due to having shot that discipline for so long), they ask me for my opinion or advice, and I gladly give it and then invite the person to any of the (3) clubs that I'm a member of.

 

The bottom line: Developing a relationship with repeated purchasing and thus enabling the store to stay in business is more important to me than being able to brag on a forum how little I shortsightedly paid for this gun or that part. Hell, some of the places I go to want to know if I would like a cold/hot drink depending upon the time of year I walk through the door!

 

As far as the drooling goes, butcher shops & bakeries always get my juices going! I drive a hundred miles each way for smoked pork chops, bacon & PA Dutch wet-bottom Shu-Fly Pie! Even wrote an article about it, LOL!

 

Hope to bump into you some time for a coffee or a shoot.

 

Dave

Yeah, I think we're on the same page. When I first joined this forum I relayed my less than stellar experiences with NJ gun shops,proceeded to rent several pistols in order to give me a frame of reference and ordered 2 pistols on line. I wished I would have been able to establish a relationship with a gun shop but they didn't give my the opportunity to, not for the lack of trying on my part.

As for drooling....The wife and I are heading to Queens, NY tonight for the best Thai food on the East coast. Time ,distance and circumstance does not stand in the way of a good meal....

[Smokin .50 1,907]

Safe trip & ENJOY!

 

One of these days I need to hook-up with a fellow "Foodie" and try that culture's offerings. I never went since I wanted to go to a place that was "spot-on" so I could compare in the correct context instead of having so-so and writing it off as a bad idea.

 

PM me so I can chat (if you want to). Also, OBR&PC has (3) Leagues shooting this Sunday at the outdoor range and the gate is wide-open (non-members allowed). Email me and I'll send you my cell number.......

 

Dave

[oneshot 45]

Working in "retail" does not in any way shape or form give you the right to treat and or speak to a potential customer like they are crap on your heal.

Write a letter of go talk directly to the owner. Atleast if you can look in his eyes you will know if hes is full of **** or not. There are plenty of places to

buy just about anything you need. I wouldnt go back . That prick should go back to picking on little kids for riding bicycles with no helmet.

[YWHIC 18]

I bought my Caldwell bag from them and my soft-case for my Saiga last fall with 0 issues.. also bought ammo there as well for my 308 Saiga with 0 issues..

 

you just got to go in, BUY, and get out..

 

I bought a 380ACP Makarov back in 1995 from Harrys (my 1st pistol also) and service was GREAT.. IMHO..

 

they did have the standard Saiga 12 in there last August..

[bry@n 195]

Yeah, I think we're on the same page. When I first joined this forum I relayed my less than stellar experiences with NJ gun shops,proceeded to rent several pistols in order to give me a frame of reference and ordered 2 pistols on line. I wished I would have been able to establish a relationship with a gun shop but they didn't give my the opportunity to, not for the lack of trying on my part.

As for drooling....The wife and I are heading to Queens, NY tonight for the best Thai food on the East coast. Time ,distance and circumstance does not stand in the way of a good meal....

 

 

There are a few FFL's on the forum that are very good. Look at the feedback that they get. They also support the forum.

[Sixtytwo327 14]

Especially since I am 30 looking like I turned 17.

 

Same. Maybe I look young, but when I ask intelligent questions and show a more-than-passing familiarity, plus I've indicated that I need something and intend to buy, I expect at least two word replies without the accusing glare.

 

And for the record, even if someone is obviously a window shopper, guess what? It's the salesman's job to change his mind and sell him something. There are no excuses for bad service. Period.

 

FWIW, I've had fantastic luck with the vendors on this forum - I'd use them instead and forget the box store or "www.WeGotCheapGUNZ.com."

 

Anyway, just my $0.02.

[Duppie 73]

There are a few FFL's on the forum that are very good. Look at the feedback that they get. They also support the forum.

Oh I know that now and deal with Ira at Legend who I can't recommend highly enough.

[Duppie 73]

Safe trip & ENJOY!

 

One of these days I need to hook-up with a fellow "Foodie" and try that culture's offerings. I never went since I wanted to go to a place that was "spot-on" so I could compare in the correct context instead of having so-so and writing it off as a bad idea.

 

PM me so I can chat (if you want to). Also, OBR&PC has (3) Leagues shooting this Sunday at the outdoor range and the gate is wide-open (non-members allowed). Email me and I'll send you my cell number.......

 

Dave

Sounds good I certainly will.

[vjf915 456]

About 3 weeks ago I was in there buying a used Remington 700. I can't remember his name, but it's the owner with the hearing aids. He wrote me up for the 700. During the entire write-up, he was pretty polite. I addressed him as "sir", and he did the same for me.....even though I'm 30-40 years younger than him. I found that to be very polite. He wasn't very talkative, but he was polite. As I was ringing up, I heard him make a negative comment about Omar to his cashier. I told him that Omar was my favorite associate, and he was always great to me. He just looked at me like I was crazy, and didn't respond. It didn't leave the best taste in my mouth, but he may disagree because he works with Omar every day. It certainly wasn't enough to make me stop going in.