H.R. 822 going to be voted on today?

[aguilar64 9]

Does anyone knows if H.R. 822 is going to be voted on today?

I got the below email last night. I'm in no way endorsing this email...

*** Read the email but don't bash me on the content as I'm only a subscriber to this list ****

 

From: "Dudley Brown" <[email protected]>

Reply-To: [email protected]

To:

Subject: Anti-gun bill moving in Congress tomorrow

Date: Thu 10/13/11 05:57 PM

 

XXXXXXX,

 

Major action on anti-gun legislation is taking place at the Capitol in Washington, DC right now.

 

I have been warning you for weeks about H.R. 822, “Obama’s Concealed Carry Bill,” which has been rapidly making its way through Congress, and votes are happening today and tomorrow in Committee.

 

Anti-gun members of the Committee are already trying to amend the bill to add national standards to the existing legislation, which NAGR opposes.

 

We expect a vote on this tomorrow, which is why it is imperative for you to call RIGHT NOW.

 

Please call Lamar Smith at 202-225-4236 right now. Tell him that you are opposed to this dangerous piece of legislation, H.R. 822.

 

And once you are done making that call, please call your Congressman at 202-224-3121, and make your voice heard opposing H.R. 822.

 

-- Dudley

[jcerillo70 16]

They voted on amendments of it today,

 

They didnt vote on the whole bill yet.

[mrjam2jab 9]

They voted on amendments of it today,

 

They didnt vote on the whole bill yet.

 

 

12 attempted amendments...only one passed. However, the entire bill was substituted

[aguilar64 9]

An anyone here translate the amendment?

 

AMENDMENT IN THE NATURE OF A SUBSTITUTE

TO H.R. 822

OFFERED BY MR. FRANKS OF ARIZONA

Strike all after the enacting clause and insert the

following:

1 SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.

2 This Act may be cited as the ‘‘National Right-to-

3 Carry Reciprocity Act of 2011’’.

4 SEC. 2. RECIPROCITY FOR THE CARRYING OF CERTAIN

5 CONCEALED FIREARMS.

6 (a) IN GENERAL.—Chapter 44 of title 18, United

7 States Code, is amended by inserting after section 926C

8 the following:

9 ‘‘§ 926D. Reciprocity for the carrying of certain con

10 cealed firearms

11 ‘‘(a) Notwithstanding any provision of the law of any

12 State or political subdivision thereof (except as provided

13 in subsection (b)), a person who is not prohibited by

14 Federal law from possessing, transporting, shipping, or receiv

15 ing a firearm, and who is carrying a valid identification

16 document containing a photograph of the person, and a

17 valid license or permit which is issued pursuant to the law

18 of a State and which permits the person to carry a con-

 

PAGE 2

1 cealed firearm, may possess or carry a concealed handgun

2 (other than a machinegun or destructive device) that has

3 been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign com

4 merce, in any State, other than the State of residence of

5 the person, that—

6 ‘‘(1) has a statute that allows residents of the

7 State to obtain licenses or permits to carry concealed

8 firearms; or

9 ‘‘(2) does not prohibit the carrying of concealed

10 firearms by residents of the State for lawful pur

11 poses.

12 ‘‘(b) The possession or carrying of a concealed hand

13 gun in a State under this section shall be subject to the

14 same conditions and limitations, except as to eligibility to

15 possess or carry, imposed by or under Federal or State

16 law or the law of a political subdivision of a State, that

17 apply to the possession or carrying of a concealed handgun

18 by residents of the State or political subdivision who are

19 licensed by the State or political subdivision to do so, or

20 not prohibited by the State from doing so.

21 ‘‘© In subsection (a), the term ‘identification docu

22 ment’ means a document made or issued by or under the

23 authority of the United States Government, a State, or

24 a political subdivision of a State which, when completed

25 with information concerning a particular individual, is of

 

PAGE3

1 a type intended or commonly accepted for the purpose of

2 identification of individuals.’’.

3 (b) CLERICAL AMENDMENT.—The table of sections

4 for such chapter is amended by inserting after the item

5 relating to section 926C the following:

‘‘926D. Reciprocity for the carrying of certain concealed firearms.’’.

6 © EFFECTIVE DATE.—The amendments made by

7 this section shall take effect 90 days after the date of the

8 enactment of this Act.

[Malsua 1,422]

The key part of the new bill is here:

 

The possession or carrying of a concealed hand

13 gun in a State under this section shall be subject to the

14 same conditions and limitations, except as to eligibility to

15 possess or carry, imposed by or under Federal or State

16 law or the law of a political subdivision of a State

 

Let me drill it down. "Carrying of a hand gun in a state, shall be subject to the limitations of that state, except as to Eligibility to carry"

 

If you can't carry hollow points and have a 10 round mag limit in the state, then those rules apply to everyone. If your state imposes rules such as "No one under the age of 95 that isn't a law enforcement officer may carry", won't fly. I suspect they're trying to head off stupid BS that states like NJ will enact.

 

It still does not provide NJ residents a way to carry so for us, it's moot.

[diamondd817 828]

The key part of the new bill is here:

 

 

 

Let me drill it down. "Carrying of a hand gun in a state, shall be subject to the limitations of that state, except as to Eligibility to carry"

 

If you can't carry hollow points and have a 10 round mag limit in the state, then those rules apply to everyone. If your state imposes rules such as "No one under the age of 95 that isn't a law enforcement officer may carry", won't fly. I suspect they're trying to head off stupid BS that states like NJ will enact.

 

It still does not provide NJ residents a way to carry so for us, it's moot.

 

 

I could live with complying with States requirements of say 10rd mags, hollow points, etc.

 

But NJ would still have to let CCW permit holders carry here.

 

Still seems positive to me.

[jcerillo70 16]

See my post Thread about hr 2900... It would let us use our fl permits in Nj

[Old School 611]

I could live with complying with States requirements of say 10rd mags, hollow points, etc.

 

But NJ would still have to let CCW permit holders carry here.

 

Still seems positive to me.

 

You're giving up TOO MUCH!

[diamondd817 828]

You're giving up TOO MUCH!

 

 

You kidding? We got nothing right now.

 

And only a handfull of States restrict Mag capacity, ammo, etc. NJ being one already. I could live with carrying (only) 15 rds in NJ. Statistically, most people will only be carrying 6-10 rds in small framed guns anyway. I know some brave souls will be carrying huge full size 15rd 45acp guns, but to each his own.

[StarWarsGeek45 5]

I could live with complying with States requirements of say 10rd mags, hollow points, etc.

 

 

Giving up the ability to carry hollow points is absurd, and dangerous. FMJ rounds lack stopping power and zip right through targets. They leave relatively small holes and short of direct hits to vital organs, I've seen many cases where people have taken dozens of rounds before stopping.

 

And carrying a gun for self defense is not for killing someone, it's for stopping them. Yes they may die but that is not the intent, the intent is to stop a dangerous individual from causing great harm or death to you or your family. If you have to put a dozen rounds in someone to stop them, during the course of which they already shot your wife or stabbed you or something, then you carrying a gun has been for nothing.

 

There's a reason I've never heard of a single police department that doesn't use JHPs as standard ammunition.

[vladtepes 1,060]

Giving up the ability to carry hollow points is absurd, and dangerous. FMJ rounds lack stopping power and zip right through targets. They leave relatively small holes and short of direct hits to vital organs, I've seen many cases where people have taken dozens of rounds before stopping.

 

And carrying a gun for self defense is not for killing someone, it's for stopping them. Yes they may die but that is not the intent, the intent is to stop a dangerous individual from causing great harm or death to you or your family. If you have to put a dozen rounds in someone to stop them, during the course of which they already shot your wife or stabbed you or something, then you carrying a gun has been for nothing.

 

There's a reason I've never heard of a single police department that doesn't use JHPs as standard ammunition.

+1 you are right... across the board IMO...

[dave545 15]

+1 you are right... across the board IMO...

AGREED

[ianargent 7]

The Franks amendment fixes two things - one, states like MA where you have to have a permit to possess, and two, NYC having a separate permit from NYS (see line 20)

[heaterbob 53]

I've seen many cases where people have taken dozens of rounds before stopping.

 

 

 

 

post a link to one

[diamondd817 828]

Giving up the ability to carry hollow points is absurd, and dangerous. FMJ rounds lack stopping power and zip right through targets. They leave relatively small holes and short of direct hits to vital organs, I've seen many cases where people have taken dozens of rounds before stopping.

 

And carrying a gun for self defense is not for killing someone, it's for stopping them. Yes they may die but that is not the intent, the intent is to stop a dangerous individual from causing great harm or death to you or your family. If you have to put a dozen rounds in someone to stop them, during the course of which they already shot your wife or stabbed you or something, then you carrying a gun has been for nothing.

 

There's a reason I've never heard of a single police department that doesn't use JHPs as standard ammunition.

 

 

Hollow points was just an example, you are missing point. You don't carry any type of ammo right now!! Even FMJ is better than no ammo.....

[djg0770 481]

regardless of whether it makes it through the house, it will still need to make it through the senate where our wonderful representatives Frankly Bob we don't give a damn about the constituents will both vote no...

[mrjam2jab 9]

The Franks amendment fixes two things - one, states like MA where you have to have a permit to possess, and two, NYC having a separate permit from NYS (see line 20)

 

 

How didn't the original wording include NYC?

[ianargent 7]

It was ambiguous because NYC issues it's own carry permits and the wording only covered states that issue permits without mentioning smaller governments. The new version covers that.

[vladtepes 1,060]

Hollow points was just an example, you are missing point. You don't carry any type of ammo right now!! Even FMJ is better than no ammo.....

 

 

I do not necessarily consider a round that may over-penetrate my target and hurt or kill an innocent person better than no gun at all.. you may possess such a skill set that these things do not concern you.. I on the other hand am not all that confident... there are correct tools out there for the job... and in a self defense situation hollowpoints win across the board.. more likely to kill.. less likely to go through..

[vladtepes 1,060]

post a link to one

 

while I am not expert.. and certainly have no cases to show you... logic tells me something that blasts apart and fragments inside of you.. is more likely to do damage than something that can potentially just pass through you.. obviously a good center mass hit with either to a vital organ will get the job done.. but I am sure in less vital areas there could be quite the difference?

[halbautomatisch 60]

I could live with complying with States requirements of say 10rd mags, hollow points, etc.

 

But NJ would still have to let CCW permit holders carry here.

 

Still seems positive to me.

I can see what NJ will do now if this bill passes in this form: they will arrest people for hollow point possession because people from other states will not realize it's illegal to possess them here, we are the only state with this nonsense. Keeping in mind that this is equivalent to a felony, and prosecutors are very unlikely to plead such a charge down to misdemeanor level, they will be out ruin some unlucky people's lives.

[ianargent 7]

If we can keep the Heller/McDonald majority, I can see that going up the chain once...

[StarWarsGeek45 5]

post a link to one

 

Well, for starters, it took 14 FMJ 9mm rounds to kill my cousin, and he was alive quite some time after being shot.

 

Also, here's a few examples of people surviving almost 20 shots:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/03/nyregion/03shot.html

 

You should read some stuff by Dr. Fackler, he's the premier source of modern ballistics and his medical/ballistic work is very interesting.

[Downr@nge 22]

So when will this go to a vote?

[jcerillo70 16]

hearings have been going on for HR 822 this last week. I have been watching it progress very closely and invite all of you to do the same.

 

The latest update off of the "Thomas" Webpage shows the following

 

 

 

 

10/14/2011:

Committee Consideration and Mark-up Session Held.

 

10/14/2011 2:13pm:

Mr. Chabot asked unanimous consent that the Committee on the Judiciary have until 5:00 p.m. on Thursday, October 20, 2011, to file a report to accompany H.R. 822.

 

 

-So in turn, Tomorrow at 11:00am we will be able to watch the hearing on the house of reps. website.(only works with PC, not mac)

 

 

 

 

http://judiciary.house.gov/index.html

 

 

 

 

 

Also:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Mr. Chabot asked unanimous consent That, when the House adjourns on Tuesday, October 18, 2011, it adjourn to meet at 10:00 a.m. on Friday, October 21, 2011. Agreed to without objection

.Mr. Chabot asked unanimous consent That, when the House adjourns on Friday, October 21, 2011, it adjourn to meet at 2:00 p.m. on Monday, October 24, 2011. Agreed to without objection.

[Ray Ray 3,566]

can we carry yet?

[jcerillo70 16]

can we carry yet?

 

We would need either the SAF lawsuit to win (oral argument next week) or HR2900 to pass (referred to house in sept.) . Then you can carry senator

[quikz 34]

Hopefully, this will pass (this time). Last time, Korzine FLEW DOWN to DC to protest this along w the usual Sen. Lautenbugger and Sen. Menendudz.

[jcerillo70 16]

We got this one baby!

[quikz 34]

Dream Come True!!! Sure hope so.....