Gun For Hire as the Pincus Scapegoat

[gunforhire 826]

From Tosser - Would that legitimate business reason be he doesn't want a Nationally recognized trainer providing training that well surpasses what he offers at a rate significantly lower than he charges?

 

I can see clearly now. Christ it's only one class. That would be a minor cut into his market share.

 

 

My Response -

 

Thank you Frank but there is NO need for you to defend me or my school.

 

The proof is in the success that I have achieved in the oppressive State of NJ with a small group of very skilled seasoned instructors.

 

The real sad story is that the reason they we pro 2A people are in the mess we are in in NJ is that a vast majority are always looking to attack and disparage each other, especially successful ones. The other side is much more organized then we are and have done more to advance their anti gun causes because of that.

 

I know every day that I do more personally, professionally, and financially to help further the 2A cause in NJ because it is my passion. Do I have financial reasons for what I do? You bet! Without $$ I could not be volunteering and donating my time, facilities, instructors, guns, and ammo to ALL of the NJ and national 2A groups the way I do.

 

When you get to the level that Gun For Hire has achieved there will always be detractors. I believe that it is healthy and you are doing something right when you are not pleasing everyone.

 

My solace is in the ten's of thousand of people we have trained since 1992 with not ONE single complaint. Not a bad track record and I am very, very proud of my team.

 

When someone takes a Comparative stab at my classes without ever taken one of my courses I take personal offense to that.

 

It is quite typical to accuse me of putting the wrench in the plans before knowing all of the details. I am glad that not everyone can afford my high prices.

 

Anthony

 

 

GunForHire, on 27 October 2011 - 10:12 AM, said:

 

When you get to the level that Gun For Hire has achieved there will always be detractors. I believe that it is healthy and you are doing something right when you are not pleasing everyone.

 

My solace is in the ten's of thousand of people we have trained since 1992 with not ONE single complaint. Not a bad track record and I am very, very proud of my team.

 

When someone takes a Comparative stab at my classes without ever taken one of my courses I take personal offense to that.

 

It is quite typical to accuse me of putting the wrench in the plans before knowing all of the details. I am glad that not everyone can afford my high prices.

 

Anthony

 

 

 

From Tosser - Lets talk about this a bit Anthony.

 

Lets look at Pistol Training....

 

Your Urban Pistol I and II classes to be specific. Your cost is $225 each, so for a ONE day class the student is paying $450

 

For that same $450 per day (mostly for less) I can take the following

 

Ken Hackathorn 2 Day Adavanced Handgun $450

Larry Vickers Handgun I (Two Day) $450

MDTS Combative Pistol 1+2+3+4 (Two Day) $370

Kyle Lamb Pistol Classes $250 per day

Tactical Response Fighting Pistol (Two Day) $400

Thunder Ranch (Clint Smith) 3 Day Defensive Handgun $930

Magpul Dynamics, Dynamic Handgun (two day) $550

 

All of the above have been independently reviewed by numerous people, and have published reviews in nationally circulated publications. Most of the above instructors are published themselves.

 

 

Its not a matter of being able to afford to take your training.... it's a matter of spending money on classes that are undoubtably worth every penny you pay.

 

 

And for me taking a "a Comparative stab" at your classes, see the above. Would you go to a surgeon because he is a great self promoter or to someone else because he has excellent peer reviews, is published, and is cheaper to boot!

 

 

Sorry if you took offense, but the truth hurts.

 

Everything I said in this thread is not speculation, but what I was told by your employees/representatives and those of SJSC.

 

 

My Response - And Instructors Credentials

 

I was going to reply to Tosser but my three weapons and tactics instructors would like to respond so when I receive their posts I will put them up. They are not forum dabblers.

 

Anthony

 

Here are some short bio's of my guy's. No part time sheriffs, weekend warriors, or soldiers who run from their buddies while under fire here, nope not a one.

 

Joseph Sente Firearms & Tactics

email: [email protected]

phone: 1-888-GUN-FOR-HIRE (486-3674) Ext 9

 

 

With over 10 years of law enforcement and military experience Joe serves as our lead firearms and tactics instructor. A U.S. Army combat veteran, Joe has served as both an Infantry team and squad leader with the 10TH Mountain Division. During his military service, Joe served on multiple deployments, including a combat deployment with Joint Coalition Task Force 180 Operation Enduring Freedom IV Afghanistan where he conducted both ground and air assault missions in search of Taliban and terrorist forces.

Joe is currently an accredited Police Training Commission Police and Firearms instructor at the Essex County College Police Academy where he serves as the lead tactical firearms instructor. Joe has trained local, county and state law enforcement officers in firearms and advanced tactics. He holds a SWAT instructor certification and Executive Protection certification through the US Training Center. Joe is also a graduate of the Federal Bureau of Investigation’s Sniper Observer School. Joe holds several firearm instructor certifications from both the National Rifle Association and New Jersey Division of Criminal Justice in the following disciplines: Assault Rife, Subgun, Pistol and Shotgun. He is a certified CPR,AED and First Aid Instructor through both the American Heart Association and American Safety and Health Institute. Joe is also a certified NJ EMT with over 10 years of Emergency Medical Service experience.

 

Joe currently serves with Belleville, New Jersey’s police department in the patrol and training division where he assists with instruction in the following disciplines: firearms and tactics, CPR, AED, First Aid/First Responder, Haz-Mat, CBRNE and Emergency Vehicle Operations. Joe is currently assigned to the Belleville Police Department’s Emergency Services Unit where he serves as both assistant team leader and team instructor.

 

"MAC"John Macaloon Firearms & Tactics

email: [email protected]

 

I have been a Belleville Police Officer for 12 years. I am currently assigned to the Tactical Narcotics Unit as assistant team leader for the Belleville Police Department's Emergency Services Unit.

Certifications include: Firearm Instructor, Subgun Instructor, Shotgun Instructor, Assault Rifle Instructor, Ballistic Shield Instructor, Less than Lethal Instructor Defense Technologies (Flashbang, O.C., C.S &CN Gas Instructor), Simmunitions Instructor, PR-24 Instructor, ASP Baton Instructor, Defensive Tactics Instructor, Handcuffing Instructor, Dignitary Protection Specialist, National Tactical Officer Association SWAT 1 Certified, National Tactical Officer Association Advanced SWAT certified, Hostage Negotiator.

 

 

Charles Mollineaux Firearms & Tactics

email: [email protected]

 

Mr. Mollineaux is a member of both the Law Enforcement and Military communities, with nearly two decades of operational experience. His career ranges from United States Air Force Weapons and Tactics Instructor, Military Intelligence Analyst, and Explosive Ordinance Disposal Technician.

 

A veteran of multiple operational deployments in several areas of conflict, with an extensive background and insight gained in Special Weapons, Emergency Services, and Tactical Training. He is currently an accredited Police Training Commission Police Instructor and Firearms Instructor, at the Essex County College Police Academy, US Training Center S.W.A.T. Instructor, Long Range Marksman, T.E.E.S. Explosive Breacher, and certified in Basic and Advanced CQC /HR Operations, Crisis Operations/Strategic Planning, Surveillance and Detection Teams, and Executive Protection. As well Mr. Mollineaux has a comprehensive background and license in weapon disciplines ranging from; handgun, rifle/carbine, long gun, shotgun, to include studies in blunt /edged instruments and defensive tactics.

 

Mr. Mollineaux serves as an active U.S. Military Reserve Components member, in the E.O.D. community and is employed by the Belleville Police Department. He is assigned to the Belleville Police Emergency Services Unit, serving as an instructor and team member.

 

 

 

I will new post my Weapons and Tactics Instructors Responses when the send them to me.

 

On a side note my Instructors are offering you a FREE Simunitions class for Tosser at our Belleville Home Invasion training Facility. Beat that, real force on force training, not a video game and NO cost to you. Afterwards you are free to review if our training is sub-standard or not.

[Joelk 61]

A little background for those who are not familiar with the situation:

 

A few months ago Rob Pincus of ICE Training, Downrange TV, SWAT magazine, etc. spoke at a NJ2AS meeting. At that meeting he offered to do a class in NJ to benefit the NJ2AS. If I remember correctly he offered to donate $50 of each student's tuition to NJ2AS.

 

Having been fortunate enough to train with Rob, both as a student in his class, and as a fellow student in another trainers class, I was excited to hear this offer. An opportunity for some good training, and it would benefit the NJ2AS!

 

At the NJ2AS meeting I spoke to Art Barton of SJSC, and an instructor for GFH, about hosting Rob at SJSC. Art told me that Anthony has exclusive rights to conduct training at SJSC so I should talk to him. As Anthony is a board member of the NJ2AS I was sure he would be happy to host Rob, so I went over to ask him about it. He was kind of busy so I mentioned it to him, but it did not go any farther.

 

After a few months had gone by I posted in the now locked thread asking if any progress had been made toward bringing Rob to NJ for a class. As no progress had been made, I suggested GFH host Rob at SJSC as before GFH's exclusive deal I had taken classes there and knew they had a good facility for training classes, and had been amenable to hosting training classes. I was told this was not possible, but never really got a strait answer as to why.

 

So Anthony, will you now give a strait answer as to why YOU won't host Rob at SJSC to benefit the NJ2AS?

 

 

I commend you on your generous offer to Tosser,and I am sure your guys will have fun shooting the **** out of him

[Tom-NJ2AS 31]

OK, i am only going to say this one more time. SJSC and Gun for Hire did not say no to having Pincus come. GFH does not own the range. The owner only wanted rental fees. In trying to keep this as cheap as possible for NJ2AS members, we are looking at other venues.

 

SO, no one turned down this idea.

 

Period.

 

Can we end this now

[gunforhire 826]

A little background for those who are not familiar with the situation:

 

A few months ago Rob Pincus of ICE Training, Downrange TV, SWAT magazine, etc. spoke at a NJ2AS meeting. At that meeting he offered to do a class in NJ to benefit the NJ2AS. If I remember correctly he offered to donate $50 of each student's tuition to NJ2AS.

 

Having been fortunate enough to train with Rob, both as a student in his class, and as a fellow student in another trainers class, I was excited to hear this offer. An opportunity for some good training, and it would benefit the NJ2AS!

 

At the NJ2AS meeting I spoke to Art Barton of SJSC, and an instructor for GFH, about hosting Rob at SJSC. Art told me that Anthony has exclusive rights to conduct training at SJSC so I should talk to him. As Anthony is a board member of the NJ2AS I was sure he would be happy to host Rob, so I went over to ask him about it. He was kind of busy so I mentioned it to him, but it did not go any farther.

 

After a few months had gone by I posted in the now locked thread asking if any progress had been made toward bringing Rob to NJ for a class. As no progress had been made, I suggested GFH host Rob at SJSC as before GFH's exclusive deal I had taken classes there and knew they had a good facility for training classes, and had been amenable to hosting training classes. I was told this was not possible, but never really got a strait answer as to why.

 

So Anthony, will you now give a strait answer as to why YOU won't host Rob at SJSC to benefit the NJ2AS?

 

 

I commend you on your generous offer to Tosser,and I am sure your guys will have fun shooting the **** out of him

 

Thank you Joel, When SJSC asked me about hosting Pincus I said I did NOT have a problem with that it is not my range. From there I believe Tom from NJ2AS approached the SJSC and I do not know what happened from there. I do not own the SJSC, I rent the facilities with proof of insurance etc. SJSC does let other agencies, etc rent out the facility like the US Coast Guard and many others. Art is a CRSO at the SJSC and NOT the owner. Art and Dan are listed as GFH Instructors for NRA classes only. I do not teach high level classes because I am not qualified (and a little out of shape).

 

The exclusive rights comment that keeps getting repeated is pretty much news to me. I cannot speak for the SJSC, I am only there every few weeks to run classes, etc. This rumor is really starting to piss me off and that coupled with the **** I seem to have to take about my "sub standard expensive training" is really about a much different agenda. I am very fortunate to have top notch instructors and my classes in all four locations never seem to have a shortage of satisfied repeat students many of which train at many other national schools yet keep coming back to GFH.

 

So what I charge based on MY business in in fact MY business. At fifty years old and having to manage to grow GFH to what it is today as a "promoter" LOL. I do not take kindly to unfound, unwarranted, petty, criticism from some of the forum users.

 

Frank Fiamingo has done his best to try and keep this civil (sorry Frank). I as the owner of GFH do not have to. As a NJ resident and a NJ based firearm business I fight hard to protect our 2A rights and stick my next out every day for the benefit of all because that is how I am. Except for a very few haters, try to find any negative stuff about myself our my school.

 

As always Joel I appreciate you honesty and candor.

 

Anthony

[gunforhire 826]

OK, i am only going to say this one more time. SJSC and Gun for Hire did not say no to having Pincus come. GFH does not own the range. The owner only wanted rental fees. In trying to keep this as cheap as possible for NJ2AS members, we are looking at other venues.

 

SO, no one turned down this idea.

 

Period.

 

Can we end this now

Probably not Tom, but thanks for trying.

 

Anthony

[Melgamatic 66]

From Tosser

 

My Response -

 

 

Anthony, I don't think you should bother responding. First off, the guy's handle is "Tosser" - not sure we need to worry about someone with that slang term as a name so much.....

 

Secondly, you know the old saying about arguing on the internet....

[gunforhire 826]

Anthony, I don't think you should bother responding. First off, the guy's handle is "Tosser" - not sure we need to worry about someone with that slang term as a name so much.....

 

Secondly, you know the old saying about arguing on the internet....

I think If I offered to pay for the range as well as Pincus's fee's and travel expenses and paid for all of the students as well, someone would complain that the free coffee was cold! LMFAO.

[djg0770 481]

You can't please all of the people all of the time, no matter who you are or what you do.

 

I'm gonna have to take Tosser's lead and beat the crap out of Anthony verbally so I too can get a free course!! Of course, the thing I hate most is paying for something I could get for free.

 

-Hater

[gunforhire 826]

You can't please all of the people all of the time, no matter who you are or what you do.

 

I'm gonna have to take Tosser's lead and beat the crap out of Anthony verbally so I too can get a free course!! Of course, the thing I hate most is paying for something I could get for free.

 

-Hater

Not looking to please anybody, the proof is in our track record. The agenda is that a Pincus groupie wants to disparage my staff and their experience without any thing to back it up with. I feel this is unfair. I have very thick skin and can take it but I do not like when people attack others around me that I have so much respect for.

 

Tell you what, whatever dates Tosser picks for the Sims class from our schedule you are also welcome to attend on me. But you are the last one I am offering that to unless Ray or Matt are interested LOL. And Ray or Matt do not take this the wrong way, Matt and I are on speaking terms and I owe Ray one (I mean that sincerely and not as a ball buster).

 

Anthony

[Caine 147]

Dammit.. Dan beat me to it!

[bry@n 195]

What I find funny is these guys look to have the class at SJ? why, cause it's close to them. They don't give a rat's a$$ about anybody but themselves. I have never been to the facility nor taken a class g=from GFH but the agenda that's been put forward let's all of us see what your all about.

 

So it's no going they way you like and you call out people? Again, are these people even members of the NJ2AS? Why do I think they aren't, but yet wanna benefit from it.

[bry@n 195]

I think If I offered to pay for the range as well as Pincus's fee's and travel expenses and paid for all of the students as well, someone would complain that the free coffee was cold! LMFAO.

 

 

That is funny. I bet he would. He'd be wondering when you were going to treat him to the next class.

[Tosser 61]

Not looking to please anybody, the proof is in our track record. The agenda is that a Pincus groupie wants to disparage my staff and their experience without any thing to back it up with. I feel this is unfair. I have very thick skin and can take it but I do not like when people attack others around me that I have so much respect for.

 

Tell you what, whatever dates Tosser picks for the Sims class from our schedule you are also welcome to attend on me. But you are the last one I am offering that to unless Ray or Matt are interested LOL. And Ray or Matt do not take this the wrong way, Matt and I are on speaking terms and I owe Ray one (I mean that sincerely and not as a ball buster).

 

Anthony

 

 

First off I'm not a groupie of anybody, one would have had to actually trained with an individual to be a groupie. I'm clearly an advocate of quality training with as minimal expense as possible.

 

 

Anthony, Show me where I said your instructors sucked? I quite simply said there are others providing training for Cheaper, who provide a higher quality of training.

 

You're trying to tell me any of your three above listed employee's have the same level of experience and reputation as the list I provided earlier? Please.

 

 

I'll gladly come up and take a FoF Class with you (are you going to be teaching it and/or participating?) , even though this thread was about PISTOL classes and not FoF. Shoot me an email (which you randomly got somehow) with the dates of your FoF classes and I'll let you know. By the way, I'm enjoying the commentary by all of you GFH Groupie's.

[Tosser 61]

What I find funny is these guys look to have the class at SJ? why, cause it's close to them. They don't give a rat's a$$ about anybody but themselves. I have never been to the facility nor taken a class g=from GFH but the agenda that's been put forward let's all of us see what your all about.

 

So it's no going they way you like and you call out people? Again, are these people even members of the NJ2AS? Why do I think they aren't, but yet wanna benefit from it.

 

 

Bryan,

I don't care where the class is, I will drive to warren county and get a hotel to take a pincus class. I have traveled all over the east coast for various firearms and other professional training classes/conferences. At this point the NJ2AS is out of this thread for topical reasons. Give Frank a call, I did.

[Joelk 61]

Thank you Joel, When SJSC asked me about hosting Pincus I said I did NOT have a problem with that it is not my range. From there I believe Tom from NJ2AS approached the SJSC and I do not know what happened from there. I do not own the SJSC, I rent the facilities with proof of insurance etc. SJSC does let other agencies, etc rent out the facility like the US Coast Guard and many others. Art is a CRSO at the SJSC and NOT the owner. Art and Dan are listed as GFH Instructors for NRA classes only. I do not teach high level classes because I am not qualified (and a little out of shape).

 

The exclusive rights comment that keeps getting repeated is pretty much news to me. I cannot speak for the SJSC, I am only there every few weeks to run classes, etc. This rumor is really starting to piss me off and that coupled with the **** I seem to have to take about my "sub standard expensive training" is really about a much different agenda. I am very fortunate to have top notch instructors and my classes in all four locations never seem to have a shortage of satisfied repeat students many of which train at many other national schools yet keep coming back to GFH.

 

So what I charge based on MY business in in fact MY business. At fifty years old and having to manage to grow GFH to what it is today as a "promoter" LOL. I do not take kindly to unfound, unwarranted, petty, criticism from some of the forum users.

 

Frank Fiamingo has done his best to try and keep this civil (sorry Frank). I as the owner of GFH do not have to. As a NJ resident and a NJ based firearm business I fight hard to protect our 2A rights and stick my next out every day for the benefit of all because that is how I am. Except for a very few haters, try to find any negative stuff about myself our my school.

 

As always Joel I appreciate you honesty and candor.

 

Anthony

Anthony, the exclusive "rumor" keeps cropping up because your employee, Art, stated that you have exclusive rights to run training classes at SJSC to me at the NJ2AS meeting when I was trying to help make this class happen, and other people who have contacted SJSC about hosting classes have been told the same thing. I am glad to hear that it is not true.

 

Once again I will state that I have nothing to say about your training or trainers as I have not trained with you. As to your prices, I believe in capitalism, and you can charge whatever you want

[Joelk 61]

What I find funny is these guys look to have the class at SJ? why, cause it's close to them. They don't give a rat's a$$ about anybody but themselves. I have never been to the facility nor taken a class g=from GFH but the agenda that's been put forward let's all of us see what your all about.

Bry@n, I routinely travel to take training classes. I have recently traveled to Syracuse NY, Pittsburgh PA, and Culpeper VA for training classes. I am already signed up for classes in Culpeper VA (Southnarc ECQC), and Pelham NH (Kyle Lamb Carbine 1.5) for next year.

 

I have already trained with Rob (in VA at the Mid-Atlantic Training Conference last year), so I am more concerned with bringing him to NJ so that other people who are unwilling to travel can do the same. That being said, if a class happens in NJ I will attend as I can definitely learn more and improve my performance.

[bry@n 195]

Bryan,

I don't care where the class is, I will drive to warren county and get a hotel to take a pincus class. I have traveled all over the east coast for various firearms and other professional training classes/conferences. At this point the NJ2AS is out of this thread for topical reasons. Give Frank a call, I did.

 

 

Funny how you dodged the answer of whether or not your a member. I don't ned to call Frank, he already stated he had no idea if you were a member and asked me several times to let this die.

You just called the guy out again but you think you word it in a certain way and it sound better.

 

i.e. Anthony, Show me where I said your instructors sucked? I quite simply said there are others providing training for Cheaper, who provide a higher quality of training.

 

You just said he sucks. Yet you admit that you are not a Pincus groupie and have not taken a class by him, but yet you judge? is it me?

[bry@n 195]

Tosser,

 

Anthony, the exclusive "rumor" keeps cropping up because your employee, Art, stated that you have exclusive rights to run training classes at SJSC to me at the NJ2AS meeting when I was trying to help make this class happen, and other people who have contacted SJSC about hosting classes have been told the same thing. I am glad to hear that it is not true.

 

 

Anthony stated how this guy is employed by him. Even if GFH had exclusive rights, what is wrong with that? You say that your all for capitolism, but yet you complain.

[Joelk 61]

Tosser,

 

Anthony, the exclusive "rumor" keeps cropping up because your employee, Art, stated that you have exclusive rights to run training classes at SJSC to me at the NJ2AS meeting when I was trying to help make this class happen, and other people who have contacted SJSC about hosting classes have been told the same thing. I am glad to hear that it is not true.

 

 

Anthony stated how this guy is employed by him. Even if GFH had exclusive rights, what is wrong with that? You say that your all for capitalism, but yet you complain.

Bry@n, you said Tosser, but quoted me so I will reply. If GFH had exclusive rights and was excluding competition, it would be his right, but it would also be my right as a consumer to consider that when choosing where to take training.

 

I think the epitome of capitalism is success through offering a superior product at a lower price, not colluding to suppress your competition.

 

Fortunately GFH has indicated that he is not trying to suppress competition, and I take him at his word on that, so we no longer have an issue.

[gunforhire 826]

First off I'm not a groupie of anybody, one would have had to actually trained with an individual to be a groupie. I'm clearly an advocate of quality training with as minimal expense as possible.

 

 

Anthony, Show me where I said your instructors sucked? I quite simply said there are others providing training for Cheaper, who provide a higher quality of training.

 

You're trying to tell me any of your three above listed employee's have the same level of experience and reputation as the list I provided earlier? Please.

 

 

I'll gladly come up and take a FoF Class with you (are you going to be teaching it and/or participating?) , even though this thread was about PISTOL classes and not FoF. Shoot me an email (which you randomly got somehow) with the dates of your FoF classes and I'll let you know. By the way, I'm enjoying the commentary by all of you GFH Groupie's.

 

You got it. I will send out an email as soon as I line everything up. Again you knock my guy's WTF.

 

This is a Sims pistol FoF class I am offering. I do not teach it I am not certified in Sims, I will be there though.

 

Once you take the class I could care what you write about the training, positive, negative, or nothing.

 

Oh and by the way this is where you said my Instructors sucked - Would that legitimate business reason be he doesn't want a Nationally recognized trainer providing training that well surpasses what he offers at a rate significantly lower than he charges?

[hopper 36]

Nothing against ROB PINCUS but what has he done for gun owners in the State of New Jersey , why nor support a guy / business right here in NJ that is actually doing something to promote OUR 2nd amendment rights with training and knowledge , if your unhappy with GFH prices then go somewhere else its a free country , just my 2 cents !!!!!!

[gunforhire 826]

Anthony, the exclusive "rumor" keeps cropping up because your employee, Art, stated that you have exclusive rights to run training classes at SJSC to me at the NJ2AS meeting when I was trying to help make this class happen, and other people who have contacted SJSC about hosting classes have been told the same thing. I am glad to hear that it is not true.

 

Once again I will state that I have nothing to say about your training or trainers as I have not trained with you. As to your prices, I believe in capitalism, and you can charge whatever you want

Hello again Joel, you and I can put this to rest here. No beef with you at all. I just wrote that all in the same paragraph because I have yet to master the multi quote stuff. I am not a computer wiz. Remember That the owners at the SJSC are in business to make money. I would have to be writing some check for him to reserve the entire range all year at my beck and call. I pay as I go. I believe this exclusive thing is some serious misinformation by someone somewhere.

 

When Dan asked me about Pincus I told him it would be good for the club, thats is why this stuff is really irking me. That coupled with the fact that the quality of my training and or Instructors some how became tied to this from someone who's opinions are based on????????

 

Regards,

 

Anthony

[hd2000fxdl 422]

Actually Hopper, in the other thread it was brought up that a price comparison with schools outside the state would normally be a little cheaper than what things go for in NJ, there was also a response right after that with someone agreeing that yes, the prices are comparable and actually Pincus's prices were even a little more than GFH's prices anyway.

 

So I think all should just drop the price thing, it has already been hashed out that yes, GFH is a little more than some, while others are more or comparable depending on geographical location, also like others and myself have said, I don't know anyone who has been to the GFH class and not been totally impressed and satisfied with what they received for what they paid.

 

EDA: Also we are a smart enough group to know that someone or anyone that has an opinion of something they have no first hand experience will be taken for what it's worth, nothing, the bad thing about this is people who don't know the full story and read that and make a decision on poor information is what's not right.

[Shane45 807]

Not to insert myself into this fray but I sit in the unique position of knowing all parties personaly. So I had a productive conversation with Nick/Tosser on the phone. I would say that there is perhaps a diferent/new perspective on the situation at this point so I would kindly suggest everyone take a deep breath and back away from the keyboard for a while. Lets revisit this after the class and the subsequest after class beers!

 

Shane

[Joelk 61]

Actually Hopper, in the other thread it was brought up that a price comparison with schools outside the state would normally be a little cheaper than what things go for in NJ, there was also a response right after that with someone agreeing that yes, the prices are comparable and actually Pincus's prices were even a little more than GFH's prices anyway.

 

So I think all should just drop the price thing, it has already been hashed out that yes, GFH is a little more than some, while others are more or comparable depending on geographical location, also like others and myself have said, I don't know anyone who has been to the GFH class and not been totally impressed and satisfied with what they received for what they paid.

 

EDA: Also we are a smart enough group to know that someone or anyone that has an opinion of something they have no first hand experience will be taken for what it's worth, nothing, the bad thing about this is people who don't know the full story and read that and make a decision on poor information is what's not right.

The prices are listed in Anthony's first post quoting Tosser in this thread, and it seems to me that you have to check your math as GFH's prices for ONE day of training, are similar to the other trainers prices for TWO days of training. I am not saying GFH's prices are too high, they obviously aren't as people are paying them.

[hd2000fxdl 422]

The prices are listed in Anthony's first post quoting Tosser in this thread, and it seems to me that you have to check your math as GFH's prices for ONE day of training, are similar to the other trainers prices for TWO days of training. I am not saying GFH's prices are too high, they obviously aren't as people are paying them.

 

I have to run out, and while I may not have quoted it perfectly I was just pointing out the post in response to Nicks by I think Bry@n pointing out that the pricing isn;t really that far off when you consider where the lists schools were, that and the later response by Nick agreeing that yes looking at it that way he Bry@n was right. Either way, I was just summarizing some of the posts from the other locked thread.

[Joelk 61]

I have to run out, and while I may not have quoted it perfectly I was just pointing out the post in response to Nicks by I think Bry@n pointing out that the pricing isn;t really that far off when you consider where the lists schools were, that and the later response by Nick agreeing that yes looking at it that way he Bry@n was right. Either way, I was just summarizing some of the posts from the other locked thread.

Nick's #s with days bolded:

GFH Urban Pistol I and II classes, cost $225 each, so for a ONE day class the student is paying $450

 

Ken Hackathorn 2 Day Adavanced Handgun $450

Larry Vickers Handgun I (Two Day) $450

MDTS Combative Pistol 1+2+3+4 (Two Day) $370

Kyle Lamb Pistol Classes $250 per day

Tactical Response Fighting Pistol (Two Day) $400

Thunder Ranch (Clint Smith) 3 Day Defensive Handgun $930

Magpul Dynamics, Dynamic Handgun (two day) $550

 

Rob Pincus charges $500 for a TWO day class

[gunforhire 826]

Nick's #s with days bolded:

GFH Urban Pistol I and II classes, cost $225 each, so for a ONE day class the student is paying $450

 

Ken Hackathorn 2 Day Adavanced Handgun $450

Larry Vickers Handgun I (Two Day) $450

MDTS Combative Pistol 1+2+3+4 (Two Day) $370

Kyle Lamb Pistol Classes $250 per day

Tactical Response Fighting Pistol (Two Day) $400

Thunder Ranch (Clint Smith) 3 Day Defensive Handgun $930

Magpul Dynamics, Dynamic Handgun (two day) $550

 

Rob Pincus charges $500 for a TWO day class

Two Classes in one day is discounted to $400.00. Breakfast and lunch included. Also ANJRPC and NJ2AS members receive a 10% discount. On top of that if they take two classes or just the 10% off of the $225.00

[hd2000fxdl 422]

Nick's #s with days bolded:

GFH Urban Pistol I and II classes, cost $225 each, so for a ONE day class the student is paying $450

 

Ken Hackathorn 2 Day Adavanced Handgun $450

Larry Vickers Handgun I (Two Day) $450

MDTS Combative Pistol 1+2+3+4 (Two Day) $370

Kyle Lamb Pistol Classes $250 per day

Tactical Response Fighting Pistol (Two Day) $400

Thunder Ranch (Clint Smith) 3 Day Defensive Handgun $930

Magpul Dynamics, Dynamic Handgun (two day) $550

 

Rob Pincus charges $500 for a TWO day class

 

Have a little more time than I thought. This was the response I was thinking of my Lorenz not Bry@n, Sorry Bry@n.

 

I have no dog in this fight, but it should not come as a surprise that a business located in NJ charges higher prices than a business in NC, TX, OR or whatever. Heck, my house cost 2x as much and is half the size as my brothers' in VA. 

Plus once you look at travel, hotel, etc. a Vickers or Magpul class will total far more than a GFH class. We can have a constructive discussion in another thread about our experiences with various trainers, but I do not think that comparing the daily rate out of context is particularly helpful. 

 

This was Tossers response to that:

 

Most if not all of these trainers travel. I personally have taken classes by some of the above listed IN NJ. Some at SJSC pior to the GFH exclusive agreement. 

Forgot to mention Pincus, who this thread is about, is $500 for two days, and travels... 

 

I see I am mistake about Tosser mentioning that pricing was relative thanking more into account, sorry I was remembering incorrectly.

 

Then there was a response by Bry@n that I'll not add here but I could have sworn there was something else that was in that thread that isn't;t there now.

 

Either way, there are offers and invites out there and while I also don't have a dog in the fight, I'll let the people who do take it from here.

[Joelk 61]

Two Classes in one day is discounted to $400.00. Breakfast and lunch included. Also ANJRPC and NJ2AS members receive a 10% discount. On top of that if they take two classes or just the 10% off of the $225.00

Cool, so with all of the discounts you are down to $360/day with lunch (and I have heard good things about your food).

 

However the average cost of the other trainers mentioned is $243.75/day.

 

I don't think Clint Smith travels, but all of the other trainers mentioned do travel, and those are the prices that they would charge at a range in NJ. I don't think any of them provide lunch though