Wisconsin CCW

[crackaloon 15]

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I guess citizens of NJ just are not responsible enough yet. Maybe if we take the trash out and mow the lawn another year...

 

Wisconsin Suspends CCW Training Requirement for Concealed Carry Permits

 

In the eyes of the Republican-controlled legislative committee, Wisconsin Attorney General J.B. Van Hollen overstepped his authority when he specified that concealed carry applicants would need to complete a minimum of four hours of training before they could obtain a CCW permit.

 

Yesterday, the Joint Committee for Review of Administrative Rules voted to remove the minimum four-hour mandate from the CCW law, which went into effect on Nov. 1.

 

From AG Van Hollen’s perspective, he was just providing clarity to an ambiguous portion of the law.

 

When Van Hollen testified before state lawmakers he explained his reasoning for the four-hour minimum training requirement. He said the law called for training but did not say how much, he iterated the four hours of training wasn’t an arbitrary number, but an industry standard, and he noted that not having a minimum requirement would make it next to impossible for the DOJ to verify that an applicant had completed some training.

 

Additionally, Van Hollen said that, thus far, the 20,000 CCW applicants had not found the requirement too onerous.

 

Nevertheless, Republican committee members found the four-hour minimum mandate to be too restrictive. They voted to suspend that requirement in addition to a requirement that called for a signed statement from an instructor verifying successful completion of a course.

 

"There's no reason why we have to micromanage how people obtain their concealed carry permit," state Sen. Glenn Grothman, (R-West Bend) told postcrescent.com.

 

“Other states with no minimum training requirements haven't had any problems and there's going to be no problem in the state of Wisconsin either," he said.

 

Moving forward, the DOJ will be "very liberal in accepting applications unless we have reason to believe there has been fraud or dishonesty or some aspect of the law has been disregarded," AG Van Hollen told postcrescent.com.

 

And Democrats on the committee were rueful that AG Van Hollen’s mandate wasn’t upheld.

 

"Without the provisions of four hours, we have a subjective standard that anybody is going to be able to meet," said state Rep. Chris Taylor, D-Madison.

 

What’s interesting about this decision is that it may have serious repercussions down the road.

 

Some have argued that having no minimum training requirement may actually be worse than having a four-hour mandate because it leaves the door open for future legislators to impose stricter requirements due to the ambiguous nature of the law, i.e. some unspecified amount of training is still required.

 

Others suggest that this lax stance may jeopardize Wisconsin’s ability to enter into CCW reciprocity agreements with other states.

[Ray Ray 3,566]

What is wrong with our damn state! Can I carry yet?

[Steve_G 51]

 

 

"Without the provisions of four hours, we have a subjective standard that anybody is going to be able to meet," said state Rep. Chris Taylor, D-Madison.

 

 

Isn't that the whole point?

 

As long as they are not a prohibited person, there should be no other requirements. Or fees!

[hd2000fxdl 422]

What is wrong with our damn state! Can I carry yet?

 

For now us Law abiding and good citizens of the PR of NJ are restricted and only the professional criminals, rapist, robbers, murderers carry, sorry..

[PDM 91]

It reall is as if we are living in a different country, or a different world.

 

Last night's election really drove home to me how hard it will be to ever bring about change in this state. In my District --37 -- the incumbents won by a huge 2:1 margin, despite having legitimate Republican challengers who ran what I thought was a fairly active campaign. With those margins, I don't see how it will ever be possible to unseat the liberal Democrats in my District or other Districts with similar demographics.

[stever 16]

It reall is as if we are living in a different country, or a different world.

 

Last night's election really drove home to me how hard it will be to ever bring about change in this state. In my District --37 -- the incumbents won by a huge 2:1 margin, despite having legitimate Republican challengers who ran what I thought was a fairly active campaign. With those margins, I don't see how it will ever be possible to unseat the liberal Democrats in my District or other Districts with similar demographics.

 

 

"We are the Borg. You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile."

— The Borg, Star Trek

[mrjam2jab 9]

Some have argued that having no minimum training requirement may actually be worse than having a four-hour mandate because it leaves the door open for future legislators to impose stricter requirements due to the ambiguous nature of the law, i.e. some unspecified amount of training is still required.

 

Others suggest that this lax stance may jeopardize Wisconsin’s ability to enter into CCW reciprocity agreements with other states.

 

 

Doesn't look ambiguous to me....looks exactly like the requirements of several other states.

 

(4) TRAINING REQUIREMENTS.

(a) The proof of training requirement under sub. (7) (e) may be met by any of

the following:

1. A copy of a document, or an affidavit from an

instructor or organization that conducted the course or

program, that indicates the individual completed any of

the following:

a. The hunter education program established under s.

29.591 or a substantially similar program that is estab-

lished by another state, country, or province and that is

recognized by the department of natural resources.

b. A firearms safety or training course that is con-

ducted by a national or state organization that certifies

firearms instructors.

c. A firearms safety or training course that is avail-

able to the public and is offered by a law enforcement

agency or, if the course is taught by an instructor who is

certified by a national or state organization that certifies

firearms instructors or by the department, by a technical

college, a college or a university, a private or public insti-

tution or organization, or a firearms training school.

d. A firearms safety or training course that is offered

to law enforcement officers or to owners and employees

of licensed private detective and security agencies.

e. A firearms safety or training course that is con-

ducted by a firearms instructor who is certified by a

national or state organization that certifies firearms

instructors or who is certified by the department.

2. Documentation that the individual completed mili-

tary, law enforcement, or security training that gave the

individual experience with firearms that is substantially

equivalent to a course or program under subd. 1.

3. A current or expired license, or a photocopy of a

current or expired license, that the individual holds or has

held that indicates that the individual is licensed or has

been licensed to carry a firearm in this state or in another

state or in a county or municipality of this state or of

another state unless the license has been revoked for

cause.

4. Documentation of completion of small arms train-

ing while serving in the U.S. armed forces, reserves, or

national guard as demonstrated by an honorable dis-

charge or general discharge under honorable conditions

or a certificate of completion of basic training with a ser-

vice record of successful completion of small arms train-

ing and certification.

[Midwest 28]

Kentucky has a mandatory course that must be passed before getting the Carry Permit.

Here is how the two part process is done in my state. And no I have not gone for my Concealed Carry permit yet.

 

 

http://www.kc3.com/kyccw/license_process.htm

 

Basically, you watch some videos, handgun safety, rules and regulations, take a written test, live fire qualification test at a range, demonstrate safety practices and how to clean your gun. If you pass you get a certificate in the mail. Cost about $80

 

Step two

 

http://kentuckystatepolice.org/conceal.htm

 

 

 

"An applicant for a CCDW license must complete an application form at the sheriff's office in his or her county of residence. The applicant must also pay the $60 application fee at the time of application (active and retired peace officers that meet the requirements of KRS 237.110(7) are exempt from paying the application or renewal fee). The sixty-dollar fee is to be allocated as follows:

 

* Payment of twenty dollars to the sheriff of your county of residence.

* A check or money order for forty dollars (the portion of the CCDW fee allocated to the KSP and the Administrative Office of the Courts by statute) payable to the Department of State Police. The KSP will collect the portion of the fee designated for the Administrative Office of the Courts on its behalf.

 

Applications that are not accompanied by a check or money order for forty dollars ($40.00) payable to the Department of State Police will be returned unprocessed to the sheriff of the applicant's county of residence.

 

The application will be sent to the Kentucky State Police within five working days.

 

The application form, completed under oath, must include the following:

 

* Name, Address, Date of Birth, Gender and Social Security Number.

* Recent color photograph: full head shot no smaller than 3 ½ x 4 nor larger than 4x5 inches.

* A photocopy of a certificate or an affidavit or document certifying completion of a firearms training course offered or approved by the Department of Criminal Justice Training."

 

They will then mail you a notice that your permit is ready and you bring the notice with you to the Sheriff's Office and get your permit. I think it takes 30 to 60 days....

[mikeyboyeee 66]

Personally, I have no problem requiring some type of training (NRA approved is fine) in order to get a CCW.

 

If we could get CCW in NJ, regardless if there was a requirement or not, I would not carry until I took the NRA Personal Protection Outside the home.

 

I know many disagree, but I think that should be the ONLY requirement a for a non prohibited person from obtaining a CCW.

[hd2000fxdl 422]

Personally, I have no problem requiring some type of training (NRA approved is fine) in order to get a CCW.

 

If we could get CCW in NJ, regardless if there was a requirement or not, I would not carry until I took the NRA Personal Protection Outside the home.

 

I know many disagree, but I think that should be the ONLY requirement a for a non prohibited person from obtaining a CCW.

 

While I do understand what you are saying and being proficient in handling your gun for CCW and would hope anyone who does carry does practice, has taken a class or many classes, but my feeling about the 2A is it's a RIGHT for people who are not prohibited and have to take the view that the 2A is not conditional at all and should not have any training requirements.

 

The 2A to me and I feel all people who support it should support it and when asked about it never say " I support the 2A but ___ "" There should never be a but, but that's just how I feel about it.

[Midwest 28]

There was talk about KY dropping the permit requirement altogether like Vermont,Alaska, Arizona and Wyoming. But if they got rid of the permit altogether, then it would hurt residents who wanted to carry in other states. I think they were going to keep the permit (optional) for that purpose.

 

Looking around the net I saw mention of other states including Maine, South Carolina and New Hampshire considering dropping the conceal carry permit requirement as well. And since Wyoming, I have not heard of any other state ready to vote on any actual bill.

 

I do not think that Kentucky bill went anywhere, I have not heard anything more about it since the early part of 2011. I have no idea how far it went. However it did make news on pro gun sites at the time.

 

The odd thing about it though, there was the Bill HB 113 Conceal Carry without a permit.http://lrc.ky.gov/RECORD/11RS/HB113.htm

 

And there was yet another bill at the time,( http://lrc.ky.gov/RECORD/11RS/HB313.htm) HB 313 which expanded the areas in a car one could carry without it being deemed concealed. The glove box exemption was expanded to include the center console and any compartment in the vehicle in HB 313.

 

And I believe both bills were being voted on around the same time. Some wondered why two important bills related to concealed carry, being voted around the same time, also had numbers that were pretty close to one another 113 and 313. One would steal thunder from another? By design?

 

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2671821/posts

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

"Concealed Carry In Kentucky Without A License

 

LEGISLATIVE ACTION ALERT

 

SUPPORT HB 113 - http://www.lrc.ky.gov/record/11RS/HB113.htm

 

Rep. Mike Harmon from Danville, the sponsor of this new concealed carry bill...." "..... This is a good bill, and would add Kentucky to Vermont, Alaska, and Arizona as states that do not require a state issued license to practice the fundamental and unalienable right to keep and bear arms, regardless of whether a weapon is openly carried or concealed."

[Ray Ray 3,566]

While I do understand what you are saying and being proficient in handling your gun for CCW and would hope anyone who does carry does practice, has taken a class or many classes, but my feeling about the 2A is it's a RIGHT for people who are not prohibited and have to take the view that the 2A is not conditional at all and should not have any training requirements.

 

The 2A to me and I feel all people who support it should support it and when asked about it never say " I support the 2A but ___ "" There should never be a but, but that's just how I feel about it.

 

Yup

[JackDaWack 2,895]

I'm more on par with a training class like Florida requires.. not so much training but just a general class on the laws, and a little range time to see you can handle and shoot a firearm safely, all you have to show is that you can operate the firearm. 4 hours imho is absurd, especially for someone who has been around and handle firearms for many years.

[mipafox 438]

No training is required in PA or most other states and none of us seem to have problems with license/permit holders overall.

[Ray Ray 3,566]

No training is required in PA or most other states and none of us seem to have problems with license/permit holders overall.

 

YES! It's a right not a privilege damn it!

[mipafox 438]

Ray Ray, you are looking like Freddie Mercury in your avatar.