Flinching

[Ray Ray 3,566]

I've got a friend that I shoot with (not going to mention his name) that has a bad flinch. The problem is that he's accustomed to it and has learn to shoot well. Should I try and help him with it and have him start from scratch or let it be?

[tommy3rd 132]

old dog, new tricks...if he does okay shooting the way he does, why bother changing it? now if the bad habit is safety related, then you gotta correct it.

[Tactical Turtle 11]

I've got a friend that I shoot with (not going to mention his name) that has a bad flinch. The problem is that he's accustomed to it and has learn to shoot well. Should I try and help him with it and have him start from scratch or let it be?

 

I do the same thing, all I can say is dry fire, a lot I dry fire an hour a week, tightened my groups up a lot, its all muscle memory, of you do it enough the action will stay the same even when conditons change

[Ray Ray 3,566]

I do the same thing, all I can say is dry fire, a lot I dry fire an hour a week, tightened my groups up a lot, its all muscle memory, of you do it enough the action will stay the same even when conditons change

 

Another thing is that he's still new to shooting, I'll say 3 years or so.

[kram 3]

Have him practice using this dry fire drill......

 

http://pistol-forum....Trigger-Control

 

and the ball and dummy drill at the range.....

 

http://pistol-traini...om/archives/210

 

 

The best thing would be to have him sign up for a training class with a quality instructor.

[Brian B 2]

Ray Ray,

 

Describe the flinch. What exactly is he doing? How are his groups and at what distance and how do they compare to others with the same gun? What caliber is he shooting? Do you have video and have you watched it to break it down? Have you tried dummy rounds mixed in to see his reaction and the timing of same?

 

I am sure that being a relatively new shooter there might be an issue that can be addressed.

 

If he is a good shooter, you might not be seeing a flinch but instead just seeing his mind and bodies attempt at recoil control when there is a shot that was supposed to take place. It is just a natural stimulus with the muscles to return the gun to point of aim. It is not recoil anticipation but instead expected recoil compensation.

 

If it is an empty gun and he goes to pull the trigger again (semi auto slide lock) and you then see a lot of movement as he pulls the trigger there is a good chance that he is overcompensating the trigger finger in an effort to get the gun to go bang.

 

If he is able to shoot good consistant groups at reasonable ranges (20-25yds) then I would say that there is most likely not an issue and to just let him be. If it looks like a shotgun went off then have him start dry firing and shooting one round at a time. Have him rest the pistol for a good baseline and then compare offhand shots (all slowfire).

 

Brian

[Ray Ray 3,566]

Whoa, lotta questions there Brian. I'm trying to keep this from becoming a guessing game as to who this is so I'll try and keep it simple. I haven't seen him shoot at a distance all that much so I'm not sure. He shoots a revolver and semi auto pistol with a little push downward to compentsate the recoil. I tried to address it earlier by handing him a revolver with one empty cylinder and it was very obvious. He shook it off and went on. I think I'll leave it alone but it'll come up again when we shoot together.

[blksheep 466]

As a certified PTC firearms instructor being able to compensate for a "flinch" is never a good thing. You cant try and adjust a bad habit to try and make you shoot better.

 

Example if you are putting too much or too little finger on the trigger and pulling your shots to the left or right you just cant aim more to the left or more to the right thats not fixing the problem.

 

If you are "flinching" or "anticipating the recoil" you can just aim a little higher the the shots go it the middle. Shooting doesnt work that way. Yeah shooting at paper it doesnt make that much of a difference but god forbid you ever need to use it for home or self defense all of those bad habits are going to multiply by 100 and instead of hitting your intended threat you hit the little kid behind him all because somebody failed to learn the 6 fundamentales of shooting:

 

Stance, Grip, Sight Alignment, Trigger Control, Breath Control and Follow Through.

 

Tell your friend that it has to be a steady pull on the trigger straight back everytime.Practice mixing dummy rounds with live rounds on the range then you will see how bad it really is.

[zoid 24]

I still flinch to this day. Not all the time, but I do catch myself once in a while.

 

My friends I bring to the range who never shot or shot very little I have them

dry fire 10-20 times to get a feel for how the trigger pull, hammer drop, should

feel. This also gets them to realize that the gun should not move a all. It helps

reduce the flinch or at least get them to understand the flinch better. Most of

the time they don't even realize they are doing it until you point it out.

[blksheep 466]

At 5-7 yards maybe even 10 you might not notice it. Get back to 15-25 yards people hit the dirt and floor all the time.

[Ray Ray 3,566]

I still flinch to this day. Not all the time, but I do catch myself once in a while.

 

My friends I bring to the range who never shot or shot very little I have them

dry fire 10-20 times to get a feel for how the trigger pull, hammer drop, should

feel. This also gets them to realize that the gun should not move a all. It helps

reduce the flinch or at least get them to understand the flinch better. Most of

the time they don't even realize they are doing it until you point it out.

 

Yeah, everyone does it. Just how much and when. Thanks guys, still gotta figure out what (and how) I can help him.

[hd2000fxdl 422]

Whoa, lotta questions there Brian. I'm trying to keep this from becoming a guessing game as to who this is so I'll try and keep it simple. I haven't seen him shoot at a distance all that much so I'm not sure. He shoots a revolver and semi auto pistol with a little push downward to compentsate the recoil. I tried to address it earlier by handing him a revolver with one empty cylinder and it was very obvious. He shook it off and went on. I think I'll leave it alone but it'll come up again when we shoot together.

 

I say not to bring it up as a problem, but maybe as a better way that might help improve accuracy, like you said, he is doing ok with it now, I don't think any of us wouldn't want to know something that would make us to be a better and more accurate shooter.

[Ray Ray 3,566]

I say not to bring it up as a problem, but maybe as a better way that might help improve accuracy, like you said, he is doing ok with it now, I don't think any of us wouldn't want to know something that would make us to be a better and more accurate shooter.

 

I'm gonna handle this one-on-one.

[blksheep 466]

Yeah, everyone does it. Just how much and when. Thanks guys, still gotta figure out what (and how) I can help him.

 

Mix in some dummy rounds with live fire...you and him will see it. Then go from there. Trust me, this is what I do for a living.

[Ray Ray 3,566]

Mix in some dummy rounds with live fire...you and him will see it. Then go from there. Trust me, this is what I do for a living.

 

Yezzir

[blksheep 466]

Good luck

[hd2000fxdl 422]

I'm gonna handle this one-on-one.

 

Good deal and good luck..

[StephanieSeven 70]

Mix in some dummy rounds with live fire...you and him will see it. Then go from there. Trust me, this is what I do for a living.

I find this helpful too and was what my instructor in the academy did with me. Load his mags for him. Take note of where you placed the dummy rounds so you are more attentive to when he'll "flinch".

 

Only thing I could add is video taping is a benefit. When someone actually "sees" what they are doing, I find it has a huge effect on changing their future performance.

[scig 12]

As a certified PTC firearms instructor being able to compensate for a "flinch" is never a good thing. You cant try and adjust a bad habit to try and make you shoot better.

 

Example if you are putting too much or too little finger on the trigger and pulling your shots to the left or right you just cant aim more to the left or more to the right thats not fixing the problem.

 

If you are "flinching" or "anticipating the recoil" you can just aim a little higher the the shots go it the middle. Shooting doesnt work that way. Yeah shooting at paper it doesnt make that much of a difference but god forbid you ever need to use it for home or self defense all of those bad habits are going to multiply by 100 and instead of hitting your intended threat you hit the little kid behind him all because somebody failed to learn the 6 fundamentales of shooting:

 

Stance, Grip, Sight Alignment, Trigger Control, Breath Control and Follow Through.

 

Tell your friend that it has to be a steady pull on the trigger straight back everytime.Practice mixing dummy rounds with live rounds on the range then you will see how bad it really is.

 

Great explanation, would just like to add one more thing. Take up the slack in the trigger first and then slowwwwwly squeeeeeeze.

 

Scig

[BlueLineFish 615]

 

 

Mix in some dummy rounds with live fire...you and him will see it. Then go from there. Trust me, this is what I do for a living.

 

Excellent idea. This is one strategy they use in firearms training in the academy

[blksheep 466]

I have taught tons of recruits as well as in-service officers and it just takes practice.

[blksheep 466]

Great explanation, would just like to add one more thing. Take up the slack in the trigger first and then slowwwwwly squeeeeeeze.

 

Scig

 

Good point. Sometimes especially with new shooter or newer shooters they have a tend to go too slow or squeez the crap out of the gun. So I tell them steady straight back. Going too slow in a timed qual course can be just as bad as missing the intended threat. Everthing takes time and practice.