Caine 147 Posted January 14, 2013 If they won't ok something like Appleseed then there's very little hope for CR Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
djg0770 481 Posted January 15, 2013 Forget it...I tried to bring in an Appleseed Program that would only use the 22 range over a weekend and that was met with all sorts of issues. Appleseed has insurance, meets all the NRA Safety criteria and then some. I think the fact that they actually teach US history, the importantance of marksmanship in shaping our history and doing some rapid fire drills is what scared people off. Wow - they nixed appleseed. Ok, if anyone wants to know why my money will not go to ANJRPC in ANY form - see above. Yeah yeah, I got that "not the time for infighting" "put our petty differences aside" etc - sorry bros, you can't seem to get off your ass to do something really good, spread education within and outside of the firearms community - I can't seem to crack open my wallet for you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ray Ray 3,566 Posted January 15, 2013 Where's Frank to defend the above statements? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wojo 98 Posted January 15, 2013 Look, I was the LE Liasion for 6 years. I tried jumped thru all the hoops, brought in the information requested from Appleseed (insurance, liabilities), etc...zero traction. I guess if I felt like spending another 5 years of pushing, maybe I could've gotten one day of the two day program eventually. That exercise really put a damper on my volunteer efforts. Appleseeds are great for new shooters and as part of community outreach program. Plus, it is one helluva markmanship program. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
222 3 Posted January 15, 2013 Appleseeds are great for new shooters and as part of community outreach program. Plus, it is one helluva markmanship program. I drove 2 hours each way, Sat and Sun, down to Winslow to attend the Appleseed when Josey was just getting started there. Really nice range, real nice folks, glad I got to see it. They've been a supporter of Appleseed since. I also asked about bringing the program up to CR. No traction either. I see folks just getting started hang out at rimfire. They just got a rifle, no scope just stock irons, and they can't hit 4 inches 20 yards away with irons from bench, and they don't know why. There's no one to talk to them about sight picture, elevation, windage, trigger pull, breathing, etc... Before the federal bulk pack is spend, they are bored, they leave, and probably never come back. It's a shame CR doesn't have anything for them, and doesn't have room for volunteers like Appleseed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GeorgeHM 5 Posted January 15, 2013 Wojo and 222 thanks for that info. I was wondering why CR didn't have an Appleseed event they have the space for one. Well then I will head to the southern one this spring hopefully. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oneshot 45 Posted January 15, 2013 The amount of money that CR gets from new members every 1st Sunday of the month and renewals is staggering! Do the math and be conservative when you do it, you will be amazed! The "board" is a ridiculous bunch. And please explain what Scott Bachman does to deserve 150 K a year for a part time job?!?!?! Now here's another thing that really pisses me off, The board allows LE to close down ranges ,basically when they feel like it and they use the range for FREE. Ok i get it stay on the good side of the guys that run the speed traps. Heres is the kicker. THEY OFFER NO ,yes that's right NO DISCOUNT FOR MEMBERS OF THE MILITARY active duty or otherwise!! The very people that fight and die for their (the Board) freedom to to screw the general membership! Sorry but LE does not fight for or protect my freedom. I think it's a total travesty at the least that they show no appreciation to the men and women of our military. I am not likely to renew my membership. They wasted a boat load of cash on a "police range" that got scrapped,Im sure they have some BS excuse to explain it away. You people ( board members) should hang your heads in shame! You disgust me and thats being nice for me! BTW this is not about bashing LE its about facts and the board Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zell959 40 Posted January 15, 2013 I think the only likely scenario where CR changes significantly is a long term one where the aging base running the show gradually steps down one at a time and are replaced with a different generation of members who are incrementally more open minded and less FUDDish on the whole. It'll take a long time, but it seems relatively inevitable. Go to the 100 yard range on a crowded day and you'll commonly see some manner of black rifle on 50% of the shooting benches. You'll also see mostly modern semi-autos on the handgun range. More and more of the current membership was not raised on a traditional diet of hunting with bolt actions and pump shotguns. However, it'll be a while before such members have been involved in the club long enough to find themselves in decision-making positions, but it'll happen. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wojo 98 Posted January 15, 2013 If you go to ANJRPC's home page there is NOTHING about the rally on the 8th. There is NOTHING about NY's recent anti-2A move. I just sent Scott Bach and a few others my resignation from my committee position and pointed out how badly they are failing us in this quick moving tide of legislation. G-damn it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
siderman 1,138 Posted January 15, 2013 I just asked the same thing on the other thread. Where the fugg IS ANJRPC during all this?! They should be FRONT & CENTER! The flagship NRA org (such as it is) is not making ANY noise unless its behind closed clubhouse doors. Holy crap- SPEAK UP ANJRPC! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hd2000fxdl 422 Posted January 15, 2013 Not sure what position you held or hold, but was there a response from them or was there something you may have been able to push being in a position that was higher than just a regular member? Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wojo 98 Posted January 15, 2013 Well, I went to a higher member today...Scott Bach. Wojo - Why in the hell aren't we offering a bus or a presence down in Trenton on February 8th? Are going to be sending out emails about this rally? Are we going to respond to NY's recent move to strip down the 2nd Amendment. When you go to our home page, it should be more up to date with current events. I have to say, I am greatly disappointed in the way the organization handles things as important as what is going on. It takes us 6 months to determine whether we want paper or plastic while start up groups are running circles around us. Shameful it is. Scott Bach - I'm sorry you are disappointed with our online presence, which is being overhauled. However, our primary focus is doing the heavy lifting in Trenton, which is non-stop, thankless, often cannot and should not be discussed publicly. Wojo - Thanks for the reply Scott. As far as not being reappointed, perhaps a message letting me know would have been professional. As far as heavy lifting in Trenton, I would classify a statewide rally IN Trenton part of heavy lifting. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oneshot 45 Posted January 15, 2013 Scott Bach is full of crap and also a huge douchenozzle. "shouldnt be discussed in public. Please Scott ,we may not be over paid part time lawyers for CR, but we are not stupid. You sir Scott are a waste of 150k. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ray Ray 3,566 Posted January 15, 2013 close cherry ridge! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wojo 98 Posted January 15, 2013 To be fully accurate and also to make sure whatever troll on here is reporting back to ANJRPC what is said on this board, let me post the entire conversation. Start at the bottom... Sorry, the economy makes it necessary for me to spend my very limited gas funds wisely. If there was anything inaccurate that I stated, please let me know. Good luck with the heavy lifting. Sometimes it helps to have more bodies instread of alienating people. Scott > Subject: Re: Resignation from LE Liaison > To: > From: > Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 22:25:46 +0000 > > Perhaps we might have reached out to you had we not been shocked by your public bashing of us on a forum, when you hadn't even shown up at a board meeting or attempted to raise the issues with us first. > ------Original Message------ > From: scott watkowski > To: Scott L. Bach > To: Jeff > To: Anthony Colandro > Subject: Re: Resignation from LE Liaison > Sent: Jan 15, 2013 5:06 PM > > Thanks for the reply Scott. > > As far as not being reappointed, perhaps a message letting me know would have been professional. > > As far as heavy lifting in Trenton, I would classify a statewide rally IN Trenton part of heavy lifting > > Regards, > Scott > Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry® > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Scott L. Bach" > Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 21:59:56 > To: < > Subject: Re: Resignation from LE Liaison > > Scott: > > You were not reappointed to that position, so there is nothing to resign from. > > You had free reign to do whatever you wanted with that position, with pretty much any resources you needed. We were looking to you for leadership in that area. > > I'm sorry you are disappointed with our online presence, which is being overhauled. > > However, our primary focus is doing the heavy lifting in Trenton, which is non-stop, thankless, often cannot and should not be discussed publicly. > > - Scott > ------------------------------------------------ > Sent from BlackBerry > From: scott watkowski <[email protected]> > Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 16:08:58 -0500 > Subject: Resignation from LE Liaison > > > Good afternoon Gentlemen. > > Please be advised that I am resigning from the Law Enforcement Liaison position. Nothing really goes on and Mike can hold up the fort. > > PS - Why in the hell aren't we offering a bus or a presence down in Trenton on February 8th? > > Are going to be sending out emails about this rally? > > Are we going to respond to NY's recent move to strip down the 2nd Amendment. > > When you go to our home page, it should be more up to date with current events. I have to say, I am greatly disappointed in the way the organization handles things as important as what is going on. It takes us 6 months to determine whether we want paper or plastic while start up groups are running circles around us. Shameful it is. > > Yours in Liberty... > Scott > Sent from BlackBerry Oops...edited to not give email addresses. I might be a dick, buy I have no real ill will against them personally. But as an organization....jeez. Geritol for all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oneshot 45 Posted January 15, 2013 like i said, Douchenozzle. Im so sick and tired of the BS. These aholes are no better than the aholes we have in DC. Only in it for themselves and their buddies. Feel free to tell Scooter bachman ,troll boy. Not one of them has a set of nuts . Man up little fellas. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oneshot 45 Posted January 16, 2013 Has anyone ever seen an accounting? where does all the money go? The more i think about it, the more they remind me of the dirt bags we have in DC The mere fact that they dont offer any discount to the men and women of our military speak frigging volumes about them as men,women or Americans for that matter. Those men and women have given their lives so that we could live the way we do in this country. And these greedy, stubborn narrow minded pricks couldnt care less. Talk about elitists Im not ripping anyone apart that doesnt effing deserve it. Secret meetings ,no accounting, No leeway to the members for anything outside of their narrow effing box. But make sure they close the range for every effing match for every PD while the members get told to pound effing salt. How about some fairness for the member who support that effing place!?!!? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
222 3 Posted January 16, 2013 But it seem as if we are destroying ourselves from within at times..... When. We should strive for.some sort of.solidarity in these trying times.....that could end it all....we rip each other apart.... ditto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Malsua 1,422 Posted January 16, 2013 I'd like to know where all the "great things are coming soon" went that we were hearing from Bach 12-18 months ago. It wasn't just range improvements, he was blowing some smoke about legislation. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Walt of Destiny 412 Posted January 16, 2013 Of course... We all have gripes with our confederates. But for now, it's what we have. And as we head into the fight of or lives, we need to have a unified front. No partner/organization/relationship is perfect. But it's better than trying to go it alone. Learn from our opponents. They don't break ranks. Pretty much ever. Foist your venom on the liberal/progressive automatons that we elected. And mobilize our like-minded friends. As some Arabs of my acquaintance once taught me; "My Brother and I against My Cousin; My Cousin and I against the Stranger." And, they let me bring my .50...at least on Thursdays...Oh and now on Saturdays too...only in the afternoons...and after I check in with the RSO...and have my ammo checked...but at least I can...for now. Only we can keep the sky from falling...and then only together. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
intercooler 41 Posted January 16, 2013 i would love the to do appleseed...i wish they would do it Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EchoMirage 137 Posted January 16, 2013 Of course... We all have gripes with our confederates. But for now, it's what we have. And as we head into the fight of or lives, we need to have a unified front. No partner/organization/relationship is perfect. But it's better than trying to go it alone. the problem is THEY are the ones not standing with US. THEY are putting up road blocks, not attending the feb 8 rally, or not even showing the slightest interest in it. so far the ANJRPC has done nothing against the flood of antis. if we 'go to their side', so to speak, we will be moving BACKWARDS instead of forwards, into the face of tyranny. we are the ones moving the front forwards, and they are the ones left standing still. if you want to tell someone to have a united front, tell them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Caine 147 Posted January 16, 2013 Not trying to piss on your leg man, but are we SURE they haven't DONE ANYTHING???? Ok, yeah I get the website....yeah I get eh emails....yeah I get what we all don't see publicly....BUT do we really know what is going on behind the scenes....?? But that right there is one of the biggest problems with ANJRPC... NO ONE ever knows what they're doing. We occasionally get tiny glimpses of what goes on behind the curtain... things they say are coming in the future.. but more often than not, those things never materialize. Sure, they've been involved in a couple legal actions, but, as far as I can tell, those have amounted to zilch. With everything that's going on right now we NEED a strong visible presence... we NEED someone to rally the troops and get the word out... we NEED leadership. It's REALLY sad that a grassroots group (NJ2AS) that started a couple years ago on an internet forum is the only 2A group in NJ trying to do something PROactive instead of sitting in an office somewhere and being REactive like the ANJRPC is doing. Maybe they'll send out an email about the rally on Feb 8th... maybe they'll send out an email after Obama makes his statements today... but... as far as doing something that might actually help... well.. let's be honest... their track record doesn't exactly inspire confidence. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wojo 98 Posted January 16, 2013 I am in total agreement about the need to stand together and that is why I am very disappointed in Mr Bach's response to my legitimate criticisms. I don't think I am alone in the feeling of a 'holier then thou' demeanor in his rebuttal. The fact that NJ2A is starting to show them up is probably a thorn under the saddle. I've attended many meetings in the past during the public session. They do have a paid lobbyist down in Trenton and have the ear of several connected people which is important. This is what Scott Bach refers to as heavy lifting. Whether or not they are making head-way is subjective. I don't think we have lost any ground, but haven't seen anything tangible to show we are making progress. The newsletter we get 6 times a year provides filtered updates on the politics in Trenton. And of course they are going to make themselves look good in their own newsletter. During the pre-election cycle when I attended my last meeting, it didn't seem like we made any major strides forward...then again in the closed door portion of the meeting they could've shared more information. (I stopped attending meetings because of scheduling conflicts, on a very tight budget and need to conserve gas money / car wear. And really the same things were always getting re-hashed... paper or plastic debates). I can say that our lobbyist reported to have a positive and somewhat of a personal relationship with Joe Kyrillos (the 2nd Amendment dodger ) and claimed that he 'wasn't' anti-gun. Yea, neither was BHO during his first campaign. Bottom line is IMHO, is that ANJRPC could do A LOT more grassroots stuff in conjunction with the 'heavy lifting' in Trenton. While new members are pouring in, many of the long time members are being distanced and are disappointed. And this avoidance of NYS's new laws, the Trenton Rally and lack of any current information on the home page certainly make my point. I can go on, but it wouldn't be productive. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wojo 98 Posted January 16, 2013 In all these posts, I am surprised that there isn't a decent response from an ANJRPC Official to quell this negativity or to set the record straight. Now that we know someone on this board is reporting on our, (or at least my comments) to executives at ANJRPC, that they would have the decency and professionalism to respond? Yea, I know that was pretty naive of me to think that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oneshot 45 Posted January 16, 2013 Bach is probably right now sitting in his cozy office consulting a potential client for his law firm. While he collects a cozy 150 k off the backs of CR members. I honestly don't think he has the intestinal fortitude to address anything that's been said here.. Bit of a coward Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Walt of Destiny 412 Posted January 16, 2013 Wojo: Well said, constructive and to the point. And that is "standing together" because we are looking for leadership. The money, power and lobby are concentrated in ANJRPC, like it or not. So we need a voice in the darkness that is their lack of leadership. If anyone in authority at ANJRPC is lurking, pass along that ANJRPC is at a crossroads. Even the new members that are forking over hard earned cash will get disenfranchised before long. And while I agree with a lot of the criticisms, they are our voice. I consider most of this thread constructive and encouraging, they should as well. When members give up, then we'll have a problem. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chris327 30 Posted January 17, 2013 Anyone know if cherry ridge has anything posted about the rally at the range? Maybe we can get flyers at each range? Or pass out sat and Sunday? Or something. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LastShot 6 Posted January 17, 2013 I have posted rally flyers from nj2as on all the bulletin boards at the range last Saturday Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wojo 98 Posted January 17, 2013 About time... http://by148w.bay148.mail.live.com/default.aspx?rru=getmsg?msg=EF1E232C-60C2-11E2-9842-00215AD82052 IMPORTANT Q&A FROM THE ASSOCIATION In light of recent events, we've received numerous questions from ANJRPC members. We believe the answers are of interest to all members, so we answer them here Q. ANJRPC has seemed quiet lately. What's going on? A. We are deeply engaged preparing for the most critical legislative battles gun owners have ever faced. Most of our work is behind the scenes right now and cannot be publicly discussed. We will have a lot to say when the time is right, as always. Q. What kind of threats are we facing in NJ? A. NJ legislators recently introduced 23 bills containing some of the most extreme measures ever proposed. Like requiring a psychological exam and in-home inspection before you can buy a firearm; 5-round ammunition capacity limit (a gun ban in disguise); draconian ammunition regulations, and a lot more. We will be providing detailed analysis of some of the worst of the bunch. And there may be more coming. Q. We saw what just happened with the passage of New York's extreme new gun laws. Can that happen here? A. Anything can happen in the Garden State, but there is a very different legislative and political dynamic in New Jersey right now than there is in New York.We are working to keep it that way. Q. Can my identity as a gun owner be obtained through freedom of information laws and published like what just happened in New York? A. No. New Jersey law is different from New York law and protects the identities of gun owners from disclosure Q. What's your take on the national situation? A. We're in the fight of our lives.Anti-gun extremists have seized on the Newtown tragedy as their watershed moment, and are going for broke. Their aim is to destroy the Second Amendment, and they are blaming you for what happened in Connecticut. The media are overwhelmingly biased in their favor, and are falsely portraying gun owners as divided. It is more important than ever that gun owners be unified and support national organizations like NRA. We all need to speak with one voice on a national level and defend freedom. Q. What can I do in New Jersey? A. Prepare for battle. That means understanding that in the end this is going to come down to a series of committee hearings and legislative floor votes.Those are key moments when we need to make ourselves heard with maximum impact. That means if you have limited time and energy, you might want to conserve your time and energy for those moments. We will alert you as we always do as the threats start to move, and we will make specific action requests, like asking you to contact legislators, attend hearings, etc. With 23 bills just dumped on us, there could be a lot of activity and a lot of requests, and each must be treated with the same importance and fervor as the rest Q. But I want to do more. Is there more I can do? A. Absolutely.You can proactively contact your legislators right now, you can write letters to the editor, you can donate to pro-Second Amendment organizations. Tell your legislators that these bills will do nothing to prevent another tragedy, will interfere with self defense, and wrongly punish law abiding citizens for the acts of criminals and madmen. But remember, the key moment of action will be committee hearings and floor votes. Your work is not done until you've weighed in then. Q. What about the February 8 rally in Trenton? A. If rallies are your thing, by all means, go. ANJRPC officers have been invited to speak and may well do so. The organizers have worked very hard putting this rally together, and we applaud their efforts. While rallies rarely change how legislators vote, they can be a great show of strength if well attended, and they can be inspiring. Just remember – your work is not done until you've weighed in with legislators at the key moments of action in the legislative process. For those interested, more on the rally is available here. Q. Is ANJRPC going to cave or compromise in the upcoming battles? A. Not a chance.For over a decade, we have fought in the trenches and defeated nearly every piece of misguided legislation that has come our way, against impossible odds. Our resolve is stronger than ever, and we will use every resource at our disposal to defend against this latest legislation dump. Q. Can legislators really force us to pass a psychological evaluation and have an in-home inspection as a condition of exercising my constitutional right to own a firearm? A. Legislators can write anything they want. If both houses of the legislature and the governor sign it, it becomes "law” even though it might be unconstitutional. It will stay on the books and be enforced by the organs of the state until someone challenges it. That's why ANJRPC has been aggressively using litigation to challenge some of the worst laws in New Jersey, and we have bigger plans in the works. Q. What is the impact of a 5-round magazine limitation? A. It's a stealth gun ban, an assault on the right of self defense, and would do nothing to prevent another tragedy. It would give criminals tremendous advantage over the law-abiding, and render many of the firearms you own useless. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
