New LnL update

[Dan 177]

Thanks for the help everyone, especially Jon. The new LnL is up and running very smoothly now. Seems all of a sudden I'm in the "zone" and it is working great. I also just installed the RCBS powder stop, neat peice of equipment.

 

After running in semi-auto mode for awhile, I think I'll consider the shell feeder as it seems folks all agree that it kicks a$$.

[Old School 611]

[hd2000fxdl 422]

Very cool, Reminds me I need to run a couple more test rounds of .40 major and test it for Sunday's match.

[Dan 177]

I'll take some pics later. My reloading bench is a mess atm lol.

 

I loaded up a bunch of 9mm for Sunday. I'll bring them and factory loads just in case as I don't have trust in my reloading skills just yet....

 

I did learn after the fact from further inet research that others say that the powder I'm using (HS-6) isn't the best powder (cleanlyness and accuracy) unless you are running near its maxload reccomendations. I'm about 15% below the maxload currently on these rounds. I guess I'll be finding out!

[Jon 264]

I'll take some pics later. My reloading bench is a mess atm lol.

 

I loaded up a bunch of 9mm for Sunday. I'll bring them and factory loads just in case as I don't have trust in my reloading skills just yet....

 

I did learn after the fact from further inet research that others say that the powder I'm using (HS-6) isn't the best powder (cleanlyness and accuracy) unless you are running near its maxload reccomendations. I'm about 15% below the maxload currently on these rounds. I guess I'll be finding out!

 

I have a lb of HS-6 too, and if you're anywhere below max, it will be diiiiiiiiirty. You should def switch to a different powder.

[Dan 177]

I'll be the one with the sooty SW 1911 on Sunday... lol

 

What powder do you reccomend Jon? I was thinking of Titegroup or Bullseye.

[JonF 79]

Sweet! Glad to help. The shell feeder is a fantastic addition as it saved quite a bit of time and motion. The bullet feeder, while it is helpful, i'm finding is not as much a time saver as the case feeder.

 

Some good powders for 9mm are VV N320 (clean and soft but its hard to get), Titegroup, Clays (softest shooting you'll ever find), Solo 1000 and some of the AA powders (maybe #5). These are the most common ones you see people using for 9mm minor in the competition circles and as such, are known to perform well. There are other 2nd tier choices like WSF and stuff like that but a lot of those will have less than desirable attributes like you've seen where they are picky, dirty, temp senstitive, harsh recoil, etc.

 

Here's a primer pick up tube tip: use a case reamer tool (The kind for removing/reburring crimp's) to ream the mouth of the plastic tip on the pickup tube. It will relieve some of the pressure the tip exerts on the primer and reduce the effort needed to push the primers past it. IT may not seem like much but when you're loading a few hundred at a clip, your hand will thank you.

[hd2000fxdl 422]

I'm new but am having good luck with N320 also.

[Jon 264]

I use W-231 because I'm cheap and the recoil doesn't bother me. The recoil is probably only slightly more than N320 IMO.

[Maksim 1,504]

Harsh recoil with WSF? You are kidding me right? WSF is softer to shoot than n320. Granted, it is inverse sensitive.... But it is a fantastic powder which is great to shoot, plenty of load data, clean and cheap. It is my go to 45 and 9mm powder. N320 for 40.

[AS350Driver 56]

I'm like Jon, I use W231. It's the only powder i've used so far for pistol so I really wouldn't know any differences, other than what i've read. For me it meters well, and is fairly cheap.

[Dan 177]

Thanks guys, I will further research W231 and Titegroup for my 9mm loads. I'm sure N320 is great but man they charge a premium for that stuff. Clays seems interesting, but the fudge factor between minimum and max loads is very narrow.

 

I'll use the HS-6 for near maxload loads in the future only after I get through shooting dirty clouds of the midrange loads that I have now.

 

Thanks for the tip on the primer feed tube Jon.

[Old School 611]

I've posted this before:

 

Loading Data 9mm 115gr FMJ

Data assembled 2/20/2012

 

Data on file from notebook:

Pistol: GLOCK G34

Bullets: 115gr Montana Gold FMJ

Powder: 4.8gr W231

Primers: CCI #500

Nominal COL: 1.104”

COL checked 4/8/11: 1.110 +-003”

2010 Chrono data: Shot #1 1137fps

#2 1163 fps

#3 1162 fps

#4 1144 fps

#5 1139 fps

Average velocity: 1149 fps

Std deviation: 11.26 fps

Random check of five rounds mixed head stamp 2/20/12:

#1 1.104”

#2 1.105”

#3 1.103”

#4 1.103”

#5 1.105”

 

[Dan 177]

Granted, it is inverse sensitive....

 

Maks, please esplain

[JonF 79]

Harsh recoil with WSF? You are kidding me right? WSF is softer to shoot than n320. Granted, it is inverse sensitive.... But it is a fantastic powder which is great to shoot, plenty of load data, clean and cheap. It is my go to 45 and 9mm powder. N320 for 40.

Nope, not kidding at all. I;ve personally tried and tested N320, clays, WSF and Titegroup in various 9mm minor loads and the recoil is noticeably stronger with WSF (even moreso than titegroup). Its so far down on the burn rate chart below all the other typical faster burning 9mm pistol powders, its just not an optimal powder for that caliber. Its just too slow burning and has that slow powder slow and heavy recoil feel. If you're truly trying to optimize your loads for games, its just not the powder to use for that caliber.

[hd2000fxdl 422]

 

 

Maks, please esplain

 

I'll wait for Maks to respond but I think that was one of the temperature sensitive powders.

[JonF 79]

Maks, please esplain

Dan, some powders are temp sensitive in that they change velocity when the ambient temp gets colder or warmer from when you initially chrono'd them. Some powders get faster when the temps heat up and some get faster when the temps get colder. The latter is "inverse sensitive" as the velocity delta is inversely proportional to the temperature delta. Its not good or bad, just something else you need to consider when you're developing a load for your needs in your part of the country.

[raz-0 1,259]

Most powders are temperature sensitive to some extent. Most of them increase pressure in warm weather, and decrease in cold. Some are inverse sensitive and increase pressure in cold weather and decrease in hot weather.

[Maksim 1,504]

Nope, not kidding at all. I;ve personally tried and tested N320, clays, WSF and Titegroup in various 9mm minor loads and the recoil is noticeably stronger with WSF (even moreso than titegroup). Its so far down on the burn rate chart below all the other typical faster burning 9mm pistol powders, its just not an optimal powder for that caliber. Its just too slow burning and has that slow powder slow and heavy recoil feel. If you're truly trying to optimize your loads for games, its just not the powder to use for that caliber.

 

WSF is not that slow, and is fairly great powder, especially for 124 and 147. Maybe it has to do with how short your are loading them, as per your other post.

 

The recoil is a joke out of most minor loads, then again, recoil is not the issue, its how you deal with it, something I have been learning more and more recently.

 

the "push" works just fine, with various loads, both steel fart loads, minor, +p, and +p+ loads with WSF, loaded to 1.135 iirc.

 

What I love about WSF is that it fills up the case, meters extremely well, very little chance of throwing a double charge, it will spill out of the case if you try, and cleaner than 231, which I found to be a bit harsher on the recoil.

 

To each their own. =)

 

As far as temp sensitive.... yes. Not having a chrono made me go minor at Area 8 last year... developed a load in winter time as per book, in summer time, just went minor.

 

On the flip side... N320.... In 30 degree weather, the load went 168 pf, average of 930 to 940 fps. In florida in 82 degrees, it went 177 pf. Confirmed it yesterday, consistent 985 to 1000 fps.

 

Time to tune the load down a few tenths.

[Dan 177]

Thanks for the info on the temepature sensitivity aspects.

[JonF 79]

WSF is not that slow, and is fairly great powder, especially for 124 and 147. Maybe it has to do with how short your are loading them, as per your other post.

fairly great? Is that like those funny oxymorons like somewhat awesome, Military intelligence or pretty ugly?

 

While it could be in part to the OAL, there's no disputing the fact that WSF is at the veritable BOTTOM of the scale of suitable handgun powders. Hodgdon lists it as 36 overall and not only is it way past all the typical fast handgun powders, its sitting next to the slow burning, big gas, comp'd gun powders. It's true that a lot of things will work (and work good enough), but do they work well enough when better alternatives exist?

 

The recoil is a joke out of most minor loads, then again, recoil is not the issue, its how you deal with it, something I have been learning more and more recently. the "push" works just fine, with various loads, both steel fart loads, minor, +p, and +p+ loads with WSF, loaded to 1.135 iirc.

True, recoil of 9mm is not much to begin with, and if one can train to handle the different factors of ergonomics of the gun itself, you can certainly train for its recoil impulse but... its still that slowwwwww impulse. The faster powders are nice in that the impulse is over and done with quickly and you're back on target. Sure you can train all around that kind of thing but when you're talking games (and being competitive as i know you are), isn't optimizing things in the every possible way important?

 

Many powders are versatile, but i think the most important goal regarding the power factor (at least in terms of the topic of 9mm minor) are achieving a good load to meet minor that shoots well out of the gun (in terms of accuracy and function). I can load mouse fart clays and N320 loads too but the brass barely dribbles out of the gun and occasionally stovepipes (and that's not that far below the USPSA minor floor so the range we speak of is pretty narrow). Plus, i find it more effective and efficient to load and train with one load only. And besides, who cares about +p+?

 

What I love about WSF is that it fills up the case, meters extremely well, very little chance of throwing a double charge, it will spill out of the case if you try, and cleaner than 231, which I found to be a bit harsher on the recoil. To each their own. =)

Are you still using that 4-hole Lee? I highly advocate the use of some sort of AP press with at least 5 stations (and i don't even care which color). I use the RCBS lockout on my LnL and don;t ever worry about squib/doubles/partials anymore, it handles them all. Voluminous powders are good for the beginner for the very safeguard you mention but at some level, should not really be a deciding factor for powder selection given the mechanical safeguards we have at our disposal these days.

 

As far as temp sensitive.... yes. Not having a chrono made me go minor at Area 8 last year... developed a load in winter time as per book, in summer time, just went minor. On the flip side... N320.... In 30 degree weather, the load went 168 pf, average of 930 to 940 fps. In florida in 82 degrees, it went 177 pf. Confirmed it yesterday, consistent 985 to 1000 fps. Time to tune the load down a few tenths.

Bummer! A chrono is definitely and invaluable, and frankly, essential tool. Especially when we're loading so close to the threshold. I've heard similar stories recently to yours where folks have upped thier charges to gain a sufficient buffer, even in spite of introducing additional recoil. Add in the temp swings, gun differences, chrono differences and all that tolerance stacks up against you sending you min/sub-minor and your scores in the crapper. I try to maintain a 5PF buffer over the designated floors with the few loads i shoot in matches and i hope thats enough!

[Wolfy 51]

I liked Titewad it ran accurate, clean and cheap. Titewad is designed to minimize temp. and case capacity sensitivity. You do have to be careful because of the fast burnrate you need very little and it is easy to double charge the case and not notice. If you are using the powder check you will be ok.

[Dan 177]

Thanks Wolfy, I'll add that to my list to research.

[Dan 177]

Have you guys tried Solo 1000 for 9mm? I'm reading that it is the cheaper alternative to N320, not as good, but close.