Carry Permit Legislation (A- 1493)

[rtquig 45]

I received the letter today in response to signing the CCW petition for Senator Connors, Assemblyman Rumph and Assemblywoman Gove 9th District.

The short version is- quote " In discussing this issue, we would be remiss if we did not point out the significant obstacles which prevent this legislation from even being considered in Committee, let alone signed into law". In other words ain't gonna happen. It also goes on to say "the Legislature, as currently composed, is unlikely to support right to carry".

While not happy at all with this outcome, I do appreciate the letter from them. It shows that they have heard us and know we vote and won't go away with our demands.

[reloaderguy 30]

Glad to see you posted this. People on this board are under the impression that CCW will happen at some point. As far as I am concerned,not in this state,not anytime soon,never!

[BarkNBite 15]

Not untill all the Libral Left Wing Lawyers are voted out of office.............IMO, vote for anyone except a lawyer from NJ.

[rtquig 45]

I have zero hope that legal gun owners in NJ will every get to conceal carry. The NRA knows it and won't waste their money pushing for it.

[RubberBullets 65]

Dont discount a national trend of improving pro gun laws. The more people jump on the bandwagon of ownership, the stronger the collective voice gets. Discounting it ever happening is just as big of a jump as that CCW would pass if it went in front of the legislature tomorrow. Nay say all you would like, but thankfully there are enough of us to keep the positive outlook on things no matter how many "realists" come up and say otherwise.

[Maksim 1,504]

Fortunately, there is more than one way to get CCW in NJ.

 

Legislative

Judicial or

Executive.

 

Legislative action is not likely to get anything as the majority of state assembly is against concealed carry or gun rights in general.

 

judicial action with all the lawsuits is much more likely.

 

then again, Christie can wake up one day and decide he is a conservative.

[KpdPipes 388]

Dont discount a national trend of improving pro gun laws. The more people jump on the bandwagon of ownership, the stronger the collective voice gets. Discounting it ever happening is just as big of a jump as that CCW would pass if it went in front of the legislature tomorrow. Nay say all you would like, but thankfully there are enough of us to keep the positive outlook on things no matter how many "realists" come up and say otherwise.

 

If you want Kittens and Unicorns you're in the wrong place. the NJ Legislature WIll NEVER, EVER WILLINGLY ALLOW CCW in this state..the ONLY way that you are going to get CCW is through Lawsuits and legal action.

[KpdPipes 388]

Fortunately, there is more than one way to get CCW in NJ.

 

Legislative

Judicial or

Executive.

 

Legislative action is not likely to get anything as the majority of state assembly is against concealed carry or gun rights in general.

 

judicial action with all the lawsuits is much more likely.

 

then again, Christie can wake up one day and decide he is a conservative.

 

[usnmars 136]

CCW is a lost battle

[RubberBullets 65]

If you want Kittens and Unicorns you're in the wrong place. the NJ Legislature WIll NEVER, EVER WILLINGLY ALLOW CCW in this state..the ONLY way that you are going to get CCW is through Lawsuits and legal action.

 

Im not saying that it will necessarily come form the legislature, but you further my case by stating the ONLY way (<-- a means and not a flat out never) will be through lawsuits and legal action. Those that flat out say never need a hug and a shot of optimist juice.

[halbautomatisch 60]

If SCOTUS doesn't change the direction they are headed in, the are LIKELY to force some form of carry on NJ and the rest of the US, and probably in the next few years (and possibly as early as next year). The other thing to consider is even if relief from SCOTUS doesn't come, IF 822r (or something equivalent) becomes law, that will change everything. After 5 or so years of out of staters carrying and no serious incidents, I think you will see a change in attitude about CCW in NJ when people realize it's not the wild west, as they are predicting now.

[deadeye74 5]

My opinion is that we need to keep positive and support our 2A rights. The CCW battle, and other pro gun battles in this state will not be won by just waking up one day and running to the state house. It has been explained to me that it is a decisive battle that takes planning and the right opportunity to present our issues. I agree with this attitude.

 

Of course as our numbers grow, the battle will start to swing in our direction. Politicians need votes to survive in office. If the majority numbers come from the pro 2A side, we will get things in our favor.

[reloaderguy 30]

I have zero hope that legal gun owners in NJ will every get to conceal carry. The NRA knows it and won't waste their money pushing for it.

 

That is 100% correct!

[quikz 34]

Once upon a time (here in NJ) you could walk into a gun store and buy AK-47's w/ flash suppressors, bayonets, side or under-folder stock, 30-rd mags and even 100-rd drum mags, Desert Eagle .50cal, long barrel UZI's, MAC-10 & MAC-11's. HK-94,93's, FN-FAL's, S.P.A.S.-12 shotguns, etc, etc....

 

Now I know that makes some of you supposedly, "hardened" gun "proponents," here in NJ, get a bit *squeamish* to even hear that, but I am not proposing that 'everyone should go out and buy an AK w/ a 100-rd drum', all I am saying is, that Reform is needed.

 

Heck, I used to as a kid (w/ a NJ "FID"), shoot side by side in Medford Lakes (Yes, I said Medford Lakes) on a public/police range w/ friends and occasionally cops would roll up and shoot. We were shooting shotguns (one semi-auto 12-gauge w/ swappable pistol grip only with NO stock, or monte carlo stk only, bought in NJ, Winchester Ranger? I forget.), a Luger, and my Ruger 10/22 w/ two 30-rd mags snapped together to make 60-rds, (I HATE reloading mags). Sometimes 6 of us would be out there with a gun ratio of 4:1, or 4 guns per person. We even had Civil War era rifles too -they were FUN, so much drama when those 200 some year old rifles go off -LOL. Of course ammo was dirt cheap too.

[BarkNBite 15]

Here's one.........I remember my fist day of high school here in NJ....going to my locker in the AM and seeing older kids putting rifle cases in their lockers......yep....our high school had a Rifle Team that met after school and was bussed to the old Ray's Sport Shop in Watchung NJ before the fire.

[KpdPipes 388]

If SCOTUS doesn't change the direction they are headed in, the are LIKELY to force some form of carry on NJ and the rest of the US, and probably in the next few years (and possibly as early as next year). The other thing to consider is even if relief from SCOTUS doesn't come, IF 822r (or something equivalent) becomes law, that will change everything. After 5 or so years of out of staters carrying and no serious incidents, I think you will see a change in attitude about CCW in NJ when people realize it's not the wild west, as they are predicting now.

 

That argument has been used for DECADES in every state that allows CCW.and it has never come to pass..even with THAT History Cryin Bryan still trots out the same old crap, and the politicians lap it up. Some of us have been playing this game for 20+ years.

[KpdPipes 388]

Once upon a time (here in NJ) you could walk into a gun store and buy AK-47's w/ flash suppressors, bayonets, side or under-folder stock, 30-rd mags and even 100-rd drum mags, Desert Eagle .50cal, long barrel UZI's, MAC-10 & MAC-11's. HK-94,93's, FN-FAL's, S.P.A.S.-12 shotguns, etc, etc....

 

Now I know that makes some of you supposedly "hardened" gun "proponents" here in NJ, a bit *squeamish* to even hear that, but I am not proposing that 'everyone should go out and buy an AK w/ a 100-rd drum', all I am saying is, that Reform is needed.

 

Heck, I used to as a kid (w/ a NJ "FID"), shoot side by side in Medford Lakes (Yes, I said Medford Lakes) on a public/police range w/ friends and occasionally cops would roll up and shoot. We were shooting shotguns, a Luger, and my Ruger 10/22 w/ two 30-rd mags snapped together to make 60-rds, (I HATE reloading mags). Sometimes 6 of us would be out there with a gun ratio of 4:1, or 4 guns per person. Of course ammo was dirt cheap too.

it wasnt all THAT long ago..1992 is when the AWB went into effect.

[MrSurfboard 1]

Not only will we never see shall issue CC in NJ, if nationwide CC ever passes, NJ will be NO ISSUE at all. Bet on it. NJ, along with California are heading the opposite direction from most of the country when it comes to guns.

[halbautomatisch 60]

That argument has been used for DECADES in every state that allows CCW.and it has never come to pass..even with THAT History Cryin Bryan still trots out the same old crap, and the politicians lap it up. Some of us have been playing this game for 20+ years.

 

Yeah, I remember the days when the Brady Bunch was called HCI, and there will always be anti's who believe that way on principle. My point was that the general public in NJ hasn't been exposed to carry in most people's lifetimes, seeing carry here in NJ without the predicted bloodbath can only help us.

[KpdPipes 388]

Yeah, I remember the days when the Brady Bunch was called HCI, and there will always be anti's who believe that way on principle. My point was that the general public in NJ hasn't been exposed to carry in most people's lifetimes, seeing carry here in NJ without the predicted bloodbath can only help us.

 

The problem Hal, is that you are using Logic against a purely Emotional Issue. The Bryan Millers of this world will never EVER admit the truth because it conflicts with that they FEEL. There is no arguing with them, the facts are completely irrelevant to them.

[raz-0 1,259]

I don't think CCW in NJ is impossible, but I do think that if we DO win, the majority of the battle won't be fought here. NJ's legislature won't cave anytime soon, and our judicial branch is so broken you can't count on the same law being interpreted the same way twice by the same judges. Our only hope is that the circuit court becomes forced to accept certain interpretations of the law, or federal law puts pressure to change on states. After that the fight can come here, but every fight is going to need enough bank to get to the circuit court I suspect. It'll be like a longer more drawn out version of the situation in DC.

[Njgunowner 2]

Most people thought after The District of Columbia vs Heller things in DC would improve, but from all accounts it's still as restrictive and painful as ever. Can you have a handgun in DC now, sure! Problem in there's only one guy in the district licensed to do the transfer and he's only there once in a blue moon, and no gun shops to buy from. And they have no plans to allow anyone to open any gunshops either. So is it technically legal, yes. They just put up a ton of road blocks and effectively kill it that way instead.

 

Just because Scotus makes a ruling, doesn't mean it goes into effect. There are plenty of loopholes that politicians use when it suits them. And NJ has proven time again that even when someone is obeying the law TO THE LETTER, they have no problems attempting prosecution as an object lesson to frighten people in not doing something.

 

How many times have we not done something that happens to be legal in this state because we were afraid of the expense and hassle it incurs to exercise our rights against a hostile state government? How many times have we told people to just avoid this state altogether if they are transporting a firearm to one state to another? NJ has done a great job in convincing the general population guns are bad and therefore you shouldn't have one.

[LorenzoS 100]

The chance of CCW reform coming through the legislature is remote. Most people in this state think guns are evil and believe any restriction is a good restriction. The best chance will be that one or more of the various right to carry cases make it to the SCOTUS and they rule the "justifiable need" requirement is unconstitutional.

[BigHayden 77]

I have zero hope that legal gun owners in NJ will every get to conceal carry. The NRA knows it and won't waste their money pushing for it.

 

Yeah, you're right, except, you're wrong. Muller vs. Maenza is an ANJRPC (that's the NRA, just so you know) case dealing with carry permits in NJ.

 

Glad to see you posted this. People on this board are under the impression that CCW will happen at some point. As far as I am concerned,not in this state,not anytime soon,never!

 

Will never, ever, not anytime ever happen in MD ever either, until two weeks ago when the Woollard case was decided.

 

CCW is a lost battle

 

Funny, you say CCW is a lost battle, when it only just begun. Nobody has ever challenged may-issue laws before, and I'll bet the people in MD thought the same way you did until 2 weeks ago when they got a favorable decision in the Woollard case. But yeah, you're right, CCW is a lost battle in MD too, except, you're wrong.

 

Not only will we never see shall issue CC in NJ, if nationwide CC ever passes, NJ will be NO ISSUE at all. Bet on it. NJ, along with California are heading the opposite direction from most of the country when it comes to guns.

 

No state that has passed concealed carry (and NJ has it) has ever repealed it. I know, I know, our politicians are SO anti-gun, that they'd rather repeal it then allow us common folk to carry. Except that Democrats make their livings on political favors, and you can't hand out carry permits as political favors if we don't have carry permits at all. You're taking the side that their anti-gun agenda will take priority. I'm taking the side that their greedy/corrupt side will take priority in their minds.

[Njgunowner 2]

 

Will never, ever, not anytime ever happen in MD ever either, until two weeks ago when the Woollard case was decided.

 

Funny, you say CCW is a lost battle, when it only just begun. Nobody has ever challenged may-issue laws before, and I'll bet the people in MD thought the same way you did until 2 weeks ago when they got a favorable decision in the Woollard case. But yeah, you're right, CCW is a lost battle in MD too, except, you're wrong.

 

Except your wrong about the Woollard case deciding anything. It's already being appealed, and AT BEST you're looking at another 2 years working its way through the courts before it comes up to the Supreme Court. Lower court rulings have about as much effect as peeing in a river, it makes you feel good until you realize you still need to cross it.

[LorenzoS 100]

Alan Gura said it best, "incrementalism works both ways." It took decades for us to lose our gun rights in small piecemeal steps. We should expect a similar step by step process to get them back.

 

Heller affirmed the 2A is an individual right to arms. McDonald affirmed it applies everywhere in America. Next up will be the establishment that the 2A applies outside the home in addition to inside. These each may seem like minimal impact but each is a critical step in the right direction.

[Greydaddy 2]

Here's one.........I remember my fist day of high school here in NJ....going to my locker in the AM and seeing older kids putting rifle cases in their lockers......yep....our high school had a Rifle Team that met after school and was bussed to the old Ray's Sport Shop in Watchung NJ before the fire.

I belonged to an NRA sanctioned rifle club in high school. We had a range in the basement of New Brunswick High. The "good old days"!

[BigHayden 77]

Except your wrong about the Woollard case deciding anything. It's already being appealed, and AT BEST you're looking at another 2 years working its way through the courts before it comes up to the Supreme Court. Lower court rulings have about as much effect as peeing in a river, it makes you feel good until you realize you still need to cross it.

 

I didn't say the Woollard case decided anything. I said it was decided, and it was decided in our favor. And since ours (NJ's case, FKA Muller) was decided against us, that creates a split (assuming both decisions hold up under appeal, which they are likely to, according to those in the legal "know") among the circuit courts, which SCOTUS loves to resolve.

 

Even if it takes another 2 years to get resolved, that's still pretty fast in terms of a lifetime.

[Iamfree 0]

nj wont get it because you cant discriminate, so if you and i get one, they have to give one to the ghetto thugs in newark and camden as well. and im from newark, so they know we will be shooting all the ghetto thugs who try and rob us every night (which i think would be great, as i have a friend who was robbed and stabbed the other day. no words exchanged before the stab, just a stab, blocked with his arm luckily, then, let me get your shit). they know the civilians would put an end to most ghetto robbers. and we cant have that now could we...

[ChrisJM981 924]

nj wont get it because you cant discriminate, so if you and i get one, they have to give one to the ghetto thugs in newark and camden as well. and im from newark, so they know we will be shooting all the ghetto thugs who try and rob us every night (which i think would be great, as i have a friend who was robbed and stabbed the other day. no words exchanged before the stab, just a stab, blocked with his arm luckily, then, let me get your shit). they know the civilians would put an end to most ghetto robbers. and we cant have that now could we...

 

"Ghetto folks" as you so lovingly refer to them have the right to defend themselves from criminals just as much as non-ghetto folks as long as they're not prohibited from owning firearms. Once a few criminals get perforated for trying to carjack someone or rob them at knife point word will get out on the streets and crime will drop.

 

For all the "we will never get ccw" blah blah blah. From what I was told by a well informed attorney SCOTUS will most likely have to hear this case soon. We're not going to get anywhere will the State Assembly or Senate. We know that. Having CCW legislation written up and backed by a grassroots community will lead to a quicker transition should shall issue be forced upon NJ. It's been drafted and is ready to go.