A Witness Speaks........

[MarkWVU02 47]

Mark

 

watch this show and check out how many "kids" do a lot worse

http://www.aetv.com/the_first_48/

 

I know what they're capable of I'm just forming an opinion based on what I know.

 

Zimmerman was on Neighborhood Watch armed (usually against protocol to have a firearm)

 

Pursued Martin (again usually against NW protocol)

 

Magically loses Martin, who's not in his own neighborhood, in a neighborhood Zimmerman patrols regularly (sounds fishy to me)

 

Is attacked while Martin is still on the phone with his girlfriend (something I've said before I can't see happening...if I was "attacking" someone I'd like both hands free)

 

Is released from police custody even though the lead investigator recommended manslaughter charges (hmmmmm)

 

I don't know man we're all allowed our opinions and I guess I see things a bit different and think some things don't add up.

 

My point is we all wouldn't want to be judged on the mistakes of our youth and dragging up either Martin's or Zimmerman's past discretions doesn't really relate to the case much.

 

Either way I feel Zimmerman set those of us who are trying to obtain gun rights back. How many times is this case going to be brought up when we try to improve our rights in this state? Regardless of the outcome of the trial, if any trial happens, Zimmerman set us back. All he needed to do was call 911 and wait and none of this would've happened. He made the first mistake that lead to a series of tragic events. I just find some of his claims to be unreasonable. None of the witnesses saw Martin attack him only beating him. If a stranger was following me and I was 17 all hopped up on hormones I really don't know what I would've done.

[KpdPipes 388]

Ya know what, what goes around comes around, especially when your this stupid.

 

I laughed my a** off when they first released the 10k reward.... if the police cannot arrest this man, how do you expect some one to make a "civilian arrest" what ever the fudd that even is. Zimmerman should get a friend to make a citizen arrest, collect the 10k, and then have both walk away. I dont even get this, it just makes them look that much dumber, like they dont even understand how our judiciary system works. But then again the group is made up of run by an illegal gun carrying felon... so not much to expect otherwise i suppose. I bet they are putting that reward money to better use, bailing his a** out.

 

What they did was basically Commit what MAY in fact be a federal crime..Solicitation of Kidnapping for Hire anyone/ What else do you call the offer of money to "Take into Custody' someone who has not been charged with any crime, or has any type of Warrant out for his arrest?? You could PROBABLY add in "Conspiracy to commit Murder for Hire" as well since the Reward was "Alive or Dead". Then again, the BPP isnt exactly known for it's Forethought and clear Cognition.

[MarkWVU02 47]

I just read this...going to try and confirm its authenticity but from I can see it my few minutes of research it looks pretty legit

 

Now we know why George Zimmerman didn't get arrested....No Words.......According to court records George Zimmerman is the son of retired Supreme Court Magistrate Judge Robert J Zimmerman, his mother Gladys Zimmerman is a court clerk....He has three closed arrests 7/18/05 for resisting arrest with violence and battery on a law enforcement officer........8/9/05 for domestic violence..... And again on 8/10/05 domestic violence

 

 

Makes you wonder...sounds like he was pretty connected to me.

[MarkWVU02 47]

I know I just stated we shouldn't bring up past discretions but since this was a debate I figured I'd post it to add. The bold wasn't written by me.

[Maksim 1,504]

They were both idiots,

 

One was a school scumbag, who dealt drugs, was tossed out of school 3 times, calls himself a No_Limit_Nig*a, was found with what likely was stolen jewelry, and in possession of tools that could be used for breaking in.

 

The other guy has a history of violence. (and yes, I am fairly sure you can CCW in FL, notice no one making a huge case out of it.)

 

But to defend the kid by saying "we all did dumb stuff" is juvenile, and does not deserve him of any praise or respect.

 

99% of the other kids out there don't have a history like this kid. The way he was representing himself, it is a mystery why it did not happen to him sooner.

 

Yes, I went to Elizabeth high school, lived in the ghetto, and most people don't go talking about picking fights on twitter and selling weed on facebook (allegedly).

 

Any other day in the media and it would just be dead thug, yet this case for some reason, the media is making it seem like a national tragedy. Let the damn police do their job.

[Ray Ray 3,566]

Any other day in the media and it would just be dead thug, yet this case for some reason, the media is making it seem like a national tragedy. Let the damn police do their job.

 

RIGHT

But this time it was a LEGAL firearm and the crime was different races with an (perceived) innocent young black male was gunned down by a non black male.

[PeteF 1,044]

RIGHT

But this time it was a LEGAL firearm and the crime was different races with an (perceived) innocent young black male was gunned down by a non black male.

 

I'd change the following part

But this time it was a LEGAL firearm and the crime was different races with an (perceived) innocent young black male attempted murderer was gunned down by a non black male.

[MarkWVU02 47]

They were both idiots,

 

One was a school scumbag, who dealt drugs, was tossed out of school 3 times, calls himself a No_Limit_Nig*a, was found with what likely was stolen jewelry, and in possession of tools that could be used for breaking in.(still haven't seen this anywhere in print yet to confirm it...one suspension was for being late I do know that...never saw anything about the burglary tools and stolen jewelry...as for the weed thing we can have our philosophies on it but I'd venture to say a good majority of us have experimented with it at some point in our lives)

 

The other guy has a history of violence. (and yes, I am fairly sure you can CCW in FL, notice no one making a huge case out of it.)(Why do you call Martin a scumbag but not call guy with a history of violence something? never said he wasn't allowed to ccw it's just most NW associations do not allow it...also had his charges, had he been convicted, looks like mom and dad helped out, would have prevented him from owning a firearm)

 

But to defend the kid by saying "we all did dumb stuff" is juvenile, and does not deserve him of any praise or respect.(never said he deserved praise or respect...I just remember being his age and doing a lot of stupid stuff most of which I'd rather not type here)

 

99% of the other kids out there don't have a history like this kid. The way he was representing himself, it is a mystery why it did not happen to him sooner.(Like i said I'm not too sure about the history hasn't been printed and school records shouldn't be available to the public so the "source" may be corrupted)

 

Yes, I went to Elizabeth high school, lived in the ghetto, and most people don't go talking about picking fights on twitter and selling weed on facebook (allegedly).(Elizabeth is the ghetto? That made me giggle. do you remember high school? no one bragged about getting into fights? No one you knew and were friends with sold weed? You do claim to be from the ghetto...hell I'm from white suburbia and I knew those kids)

 

Any other day in the media and it would just be dead thug, yet this case for some reason, the media is making it seem like a national tragedy. Let the damn police do their job. (That's most people's problems the police clearly didn't do their job. They sent a narcotics officer instead of a homicide detective, never gave a toxicology test, took "the word" of a guy that's politically connected with a shady past, and didn't prosecute even though the lead investigator on the case suggested prosecution...just sounds fishy to me)

[MarkWVU02 47]

I'd change the following part

But this time it was a LEGAL firearm and the crime was different races with an (perceived) innocent young black male attempted murderer was gunned down by a non black male.

 

Wow talk about making assumptions...he might've been a kid who was defending himself...good job playing judge and jury. It's amazing you guys jumped down TMost's throat on his posts about his assumptions but not the people whose assumptions you agree with.

[Parker 213]

Al & Jesse, stirring up a hornets' nest, aren't making the situation any better down there.

 

Miami teens ransack, loot local Walgreens in Trayvon Martin ‘protest’ [VIDEO]

 

 

http://dailycaller.c...martin-protest/

 

North Miami police have released surveillance footage of dozens of teens rampaging through a local Walgreens store, destroying property and shoplifting as part of a Trayvon Martin demonstration.

 

Local 10 reports that the teens ransacked the store following a walk-out at North Miami Beach Senior High School Friday in protest of the fact that George Zimmerman has not yet been arrested for Martin’s death.

The footage shows around 80 to 100 students running through the Walgreens store located at 163rd Street and 15th Avenue at approximately 10:40 a.m.

Local 10 reports that a vice principal from the school ended the incident by ordering everyone outside. (SEE ALSO: TheDC obtains Trayvon Martin’s tweets)

According to the report, several students dropped their IDs during the fracas, providing police with the identities of some perpetrators. Police estimate the damage at $150 in addition to stolen items.

[MarkWVU02 47]

Al Sharpton is a clown!

[PeteF 1,044]

Zimmerman was on Neighborhood Watch armed (usually against protocol to have a firearm)

Sure about that? Ever been on a neighborhood watch in a state where it's legal to CCW?

 

Pursued Martin (again usually against NW protocol)

Followed Martin, lost him, then started walking back to his car. How do I know this? Where was the body found? Hey see that big thing next to the body that would be Zimmerman's car. So either the "chase" lasted 10 feet or

Martin followed Zimmerman back to his car.

 

 

Magically loses Martin, who's not in his own neighborhood, in a neighborhood Zimmerman patrols regularly (sounds fishy to me)

Yeah no chance a physically fit 6' 3" teenager can outrun a 5' 9" 250lb pudge ball

 

Is attacked while Martin is still on the phone with his girlfriend (something I've said before I can't see happening...if I was "attacking" someone I'd like both hands free)

Try "Martin ambushes and punched Z in the face"

 

Is released from police custody even though the lead investigator recommended manslaughter charges (hmmmmm)

Try first cop on scene said "manslaughter" and after Z was brought to the PD and questioned and his story matched independent witnesses stories, was released.

Oh and he was questioned 2 more times by the PD and released each time.

 

 

Either way I feel Zimmerman set those of us who are trying to obtain gun rights back.

I disagree, a person trying to do a good deed for his community is assaulted and when having his head bashed against the ground, fearing for his life draws his gun and fights back and kills the thug. Sounds like a win to me.

[PeteF 1,044]

Wow talk about making assumptions...he might've been a kid who was defending himself...good job playing judge and jury. It's amazing you guys jumped down TMost's throat on his posts about his assumptions but not the people whose assumptions you agree with.

 

Simple question have you read or heard or seen anything about this case? It really doesn't seem like it.

[MarkWVU02 47]

Zimmerman was on Neighborhood Watch armed (usually against protocol to have a firearm)

Sure about that? Ever been on a neighborhood watch in a state where it's legal to CCW? Just what I've gotten researching Neighborhood Watches

 

Pursued Martin (again usually against NW protocol)

Followed Martin, lost him, then started walking back to his car. How do I know this? Where was the body found? Hey see that big thing next to the body that would be Zimmerman's car. So either the "chase" lasted 10 feet or

Martin followed Zimmerman back to his car. Again never seen this anywhere...care to provide a link?

 

 

Magically loses Martin, who's not in his own neighborhood, in a neighborhood Zimmerman patrols regularly (sounds fishy to me)

Yeah no chance a physically fit 6' 3" teenager can outrun a 5' 9" 250lb pudge ball Speculation and Martin's girlfriend has said he refused to run

 

Is attacked while Martin is still on the phone with his girlfriend (something I've said before I can't see happening...if I was "attacking" someone I'd like both hands free)

Try "Martin ambushes and punched Z in the face" Speculation no one knows who initiated contact Z could've grabbed M and started the whole thing

 

Is released from police custody even though the lead investigator recommended manslaughter charges (hmmmmm)

Try first cop on scene said "manslaughter" and after Z was brought to the PD and questioned and his story matched independent witnesses stories, was released.

Oh and he was questioned 2 more times by the PD and released each time. Again politically motivated parents had nothing to do with that I'm sure

 

 

Either way I feel Zimmerman set those of us who are trying to obtain gun rights back.

I disagree, a person trying to do a good deed for his community is assaulted and when having his head bashed against the ground, fearing for his life draws his gun and fights back and kills the thug. Sounds like a win to me. That's if he was a thug..he could've been a teenager walking back to watch a bball game with skittles and an iced tea...you can't say for sure what happened. Hell we can't even be sure if martin lost him and got turned around and they ran into each other again...the kid wasn't from the neighborhood...i'd be a little sketched out in a strange neighborhood with someone chasing me

 

You do a lot of speculating and pass it off as fact. I'm looking at evidence and offering theories as to what happened. You'd think you were their the way you're talking about it.

[Holeshot 3]

This^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

 

Two IDIOTS. One a wanna be "Dirty Harry" and the other a wanna be "Gangster" by fate or bad-luck their paths crossed.

[greatgunstatenj 32]

Sounds like a win to me.

 

I don't see this as a win. It could very well be a linch pin. It could easily be the case that the government uses to begin taking away guns for real. Working with the antis to turn a great many more people against gun ownership, propaganda about how they are unnecessary, dangerous, then start calling for revocation of CCW laws and such. It's no coincidence Obama chimed in on this one. He certainly didn't do it for votes. Hispanic population is bigger than Black population and growing 3.5x faster. And I don't think it is because he identifies with Martin. It's to help with the groundswell. The Brady spokesperson has been all over the place. This could be the start of their big push.

[MarkWVU02 47]

This^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

 

Two IDIOTS. One a wanna be "Dirty Harry" and the other a wanna be "Gangster" by fate or bad-luck their paths crossed.

 

+1 I'm not trying to paint Martin as innocent because I just don't know, but I feel some people on here want to paint this guy as the poster boy for CCW when in fact he could be a murderer...I'm sorry but you killed an unarmed man and we don't know who started the fight...Martin can't tell his side of the story.

[MarkWVU02 47]

I don't see this as a win. It could very well be a linch pin. It could easily be the case that the government uses to begin taking away guns for real. Working with the antis to turn a great many more people against gun ownership, propaganda about how they are unnecessary, dangerous, then start calling for revocation of CCW laws and such. It's no coincidence Obama chimed in on this one. He certainly didn't do it for votes. Hispanic population is bigger than Black population and growing 3.5x faster. And I don't think it is because he identifies with Martin. It's to help with the groundswell. The Brady spokesperson has been all over the place. This could be the start of their big push.

 

I can see it happening but I think Obama spoke about it because it has become a real big national debate...just look at this forum. It's a case that will be talked about for years regardless. I can't blame Obama for everything he does like some folks on here...I think it genuinely hits home when a kid is killed and it has stirred about a lot of emotion in people. He's trying to lead the country like a president does and all he really said was he wanted a further investigation (what's wrong with that) and i also feel he can relate being African American himself. Regardless of our feelings of race there are a lot of people out there that are prejudiced and still profile people (I'm not necessarily saying it was the case here but it could be). I've witnessed it first hand and i'll tell you it's a pretty horrible experience just seeing it (it was aimed at a friend). It's sad the race thing still has to be debated, it's 2012 we still can't get along?

[greatgunstatenj 32]

You do a lot of speculating and pass it off as fact. I'm looking at evidence and offering theories as to what happened. You'd think you were their the way you're talking about it.

 

I'd say you're both "speculating".

 

No body knows what happened in the last minute other than Zimmerman, Martin, and possibly the one witness who appears to have witnessed most of the encounter. A theory, a guess, it's semantics, what's the difference?

 

That being said, the physical evidence appears to have Zimmerman being physically assaulted by Martin. I'm sure there are lots of other facts we, the general population haven't heard yet. Regardless of who started the encounter you can't automatically say that it's murder [and not self-defense] because the shooter started the encounter. He could have said, "hey, why you are hanging around here" and been met with a punch in the face, an inappropriate and illegal response. It doesn't take much for someone to die by their head hitting concrete. That's just my speculation.

[Kaiser7 33]

. I've witnessed it first hand and i'll tell you it's a pretty horrible experience just seeing it (it was aimed at a friend). It's sad the race thing still has to be debated, it's 2012 we still can't get along?

 

I agree. However, I think one of the reason this has incensed people is because they are labeling this as a hate crime without that much evidence to back up that claim. However, a quick google search will reveal hate crimes, obvious hate crimes, where the victim was white, but they were not prosecuted as such. Personally, if it turns out this WAS, beyond a reasonable doubt, a race related crime, then they should hang Z at high noon. However, the facts coming out are showing that the media was not only biased in their presentation of the case, but that there is, in fact, evidence backing up Z's claims. The thing that has angered people is how the media, and many people jumped to conclusions hearing only one side of the story.

 

Hate crime in my opinion, is perhaps the worst type of crime. If you kill someone in a robbery it is vile and evil, however, you at least did that act because you stood to gain something in the process. Crimes motivated solely by hatred are much more heinous because they are done for no other reason than to hurt and intimidate others. HOWEVER, if we want to move forward as a society, we cannot accept hate crimes by one group of people, and ignore those done by others, even if those others have traditionally be the victims. We must come down equally hard, and make sure justice is swift to ANYONE who commits a hate crime, especially if it is obvious one was committed. I don't think Z committed a hate crime, I DO believe that the black teens who set the 13 year old white kid on fire for being white DID commit a hate crime. I believe that that White guy who killed a black man by dragging him from his car DID commit a hate crime, and deserves to rot in jail (or sit in ol' sparky). There should be no double standard for the way we treat hatred in this, or any country. That is how we will move forward.

[MarkWVU02 47]

I agree. However, I think one of the reason this has incensed people is because they are labeling this as a hate crime without that much evidence to back up that claim. However, a quick google search will reveal hate crimes, obvious hate crimes, where the victim was white, but they were not prosecuted as such. Personally, if it turns out this WAS, beyond a reasonable doubt, a race related crime, then they should hang Z at high noon. However, the facts coming out are showing that the media was not only biased in their presentation of the case, but that there is, in fact, evidence backing up Z's claims. The thing that has angered people is how the media, and many people jumped to conclusions hearing only one side of the story.

 

Hate crime in my opinion, is perhaps the worst type of crime. If you kill someone in a robbery it is vile and evil, however, you at least did that act because you stood to gain something in the process. Crimes motivated solely by hatred are much more heinous because they are done for no other reason than to hurt and intimidate others. HOWEVER, if we want to move forward as a society, we cannot accept hate crimes by one group of people, and ignore those done by others, even if those others have traditionally be the victims. We must come down equally hard, and make sure justice is swift to ANYONE who commits a hate crime, especially if it is obvious one was committed. I don't think Z committed a hate crime, I DO believe that the black teens who set the 13 year old white kid on fire for being white DID commit a hate crime. I believe that that White guy who killed a black man by dragging him from his car DID commit a hate crime, and deserves to rot in jail (or sit in ol' sparky). There should be no double standard for the way we treat hatred in this, or any country. That is how we will move forward.

 

Well said! Couldn't agree more.

[greatgunstatenj 32]

Hate crime in my opinion, is perhaps the worst type of crime. If you kill someone in a robbery it is vile and evil, however, you at least did that act because you stood to gain something in the process. Crimes motivated solely by hatred are much more heinous because they are done for no other reason than to hurt and intimidate others. HOWEVER, if we want to move forward as a society, we cannot accept hate crimes by one group of people, and ignore those done by others, even if those others have traditionally be the victims. We must come down equally hard, and make sure justice is swift to ANYONE who commits a hate crime, especially if it is obvious one was committed. I don't think Z committed a hate crime, I DO believe that the black teens who set the 13 year old white kid on fire for being white DID commit a hate crime. I believe that that White guy who killed a black man by dragging him from his car DID commit a hate crime, and deserves to rot in jail (or sit in ol' sparky). There should be no double standard for the way we treat hatred in this, or any country. That is how we will move forward.

 

So the sociopath serial killer who only kills soccer moms who drive SUVs is better than the racist serial killer who only kills black soccer moms who drive SUVs?

[Old School 611]

So the sociopath serial killer who only kills soccer moms who drive SUVs is better than the racist serial killer who only kills black soccer moms who drive SUVs?

 

+1 Punish the crime not the motivation. Hate crimes are BS. There is only CRIME!

[JSF01 13]

So the sociopath serial killer who only kills soccer moms who drive SUVs is better than the racist serial killer who only kills black soccer moms who drive SUVs?

For the most part I agree. I once debated the topic of hate crimes on another forum. About the best reason they came up with is because unlike normal crimes hate crimes are used to cause fear in a certain race of individuals. While that argument has some merit i'd say terrorism fits just as well if hate crimes are being used to cause fear(like what the KKK use to do) There are plenty of crazy bad guys that choose there victims based on a certian profile, to say that some one who chooses a victim based on hair color is differnt than some one who picks thier victims based on skin color is just plain wrong.

[usnmars 136]

I am visioning riots starting soon. If Zimmerman is proven to have done nothing wrong the spark hits the tinder........ LA riots all over again.

[Kaiser7 33]

So the sociopath serial killer who only kills soccer moms who drive SUVs is better than the racist serial killer who only kills black soccer moms who drive SUVs?

 

That's sort of a different situation, yet similar. The motives are still the same. Serial killers kill for pleasure, not only the pleasure, or thrill of the "hunt", but also for the pleasure in the suffering of their victim. If you look at some of the most famous serial killers, like Jeffery Dalmer, their motivation was not a quick, clean kill. It was usually something more prolonged so they could enjoy the act of killing their victim. Similarly, you may have noticed many serial killers kill via strangulation. This is because they can usually feel the victim dying in their hands and they enjoy the rush.

 

Hate crimes are committed for similar reasons, the person who commits them does so to derive pleasure from harming someone of the particular group they despise, however hate-based killings, and most serial killings are committed for pleasure, not to gain any sort tangible asset, such as money. This makes these criminals all the more dangerous, since they obviously are less intimidated by the idea of being caught, and in some cases, want to be caught so they can get the credit for their actions.

 

Personally, I agree, don't punish the motivation, UNLESS you are going to hold all people to the same standards, which, in America at this time, we don't.

 

Not to mention that our legal system is in fact, put together to consider the circumstances in which a crime was committed. If we didn't do that, then people who killed in self defense, such as Z would have NO chance. It one looks only at events, and not at mitigating circumstances, then it doesn't matter if someone kills in defense, or stole bread to feed a hungry family, they would be guilty of a crime, even though ti was circumstance that dictated their actions, and not malicious intent.

 

But i should mention again, I believe Zimmerman was innocent, looking at the circumstances, he acted in self defense, and did no wrong. I was just saying, there's a lot of abuse of the term "hate crime" and I am disgusted that our country so often ignores some crimes which are hate crimes, but ruthlessly pursues others, depending on the race of the individuals involved.

 

There will be riots, I'd bet on it, in fact, i feel like i saw something somewhere where Sharpton was calling for civil disobedience, and some were gearing up for riots.

 

 

....Don't any of these people work?

[Maksim 1,504]

Mark, it has been posted numerous times, confirmed by Miami Herald, and Orlando Sentinel.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2120504/Trayvon-Martin-case-He-suspended-times-caught-burglary-tool.html

 

Keep up. =)

[Maksim 1,504]

I am visioning riots starting soon. If Zimmerman is proven to have done nothing wrong the spark hits the tinder........ LA riots all over again.

 

Unfortunately, I do see this as a potential.

 

What makes it worse, the President is politicizing this issue as a Race issue, while everything points to it was not, and obviously it was not in this case, based on his family and that fact that this is an urban area of Orlando, not a rural community in the deep south.

[Maksim 1,504]

 

Better not be delayed.

[MarkWVU02 47]

Mark, it has been posted numerous times, confirmed by Miami Herald, and Orlando Sentinel.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2120504/Trayvon-Martin-case-He-suspended-times-caught-burglary-tool.html

 

Keep up. =)

 

Great link to a UK site we all know how reliable their news has been. These reports from private school documents have apparently been leaked. I'd like to see solid evidence of this. I'm not saying the kid is a saint but a lot of stuff has been fake. The picture of him giving the middle finger and the twitter account itself both have been proven to be faked.

 

http://abcnews.go.com/m/blogEntry?id=16016688&sid=77&cid=77 (halfway down the article they talk about the twitter account).

 

It's amazing how everyone says the media lies to us when it is against their side then quotes them for truth when it supports their argument. Seems the conservative media has just as much of a stake in this as the liberal media.

 

Even if he did have a screwdriver and jewelry doesn't necessarily make him some burglar. No charges were filed in connection with any burglary. You use that as evidence that he's some awful kid but won't look at the assault on a police officer and 2 DV's that Zimmerman was accused of and think for a second maybe this guy was a loose cannon. I'll keep going man don't you worry, what am I going to get banned for stating my opinion and refuting some of yours?