Zimmerman to be charged in Trayvon Martin shooting

[BarkNBite 15]

What he said.......................

[this_is_nascar 162]

"We don't need you to do that" != instruction. At most, it's a suggested course of action...

 

 

It doesn't matter. A jury will sit there, guaranteed, and as soon as they hear that he continued to pursue after being told/suggested/instructed to cease, his *ss is grass. At that point, he becomes the predator and puts himself in the situation that caused the death.

[this_is_nascar 162]

George Zimmerman is innocent.

 

1. Florida's Stand Your Ground Law has no application here. The law protects you if you act against a threat, not actually being attacked. GZ fired while his assailant was already on top of him and beating him. The window for this law's applicability had passed.

 

2. According to Zimmerman/Police Statements, he didn't go 'looking for Trayvon', he left the vehicle to ascertain TM's direction (who apparently left the sidewalk and began to cut through peoples' property). GZ stayed on the phone while he did this (it's on the 911 transcript), but he lost TM's trail. The call to 911 ended with him returning to his vehicle when TM confronted him.

 

3. There is physical evidence of GZ's wounds. Pending the release of the autopsy, I think it will prove without the shadow of a doubt that he fired on TM while he was attacking him.

 

 

If that's the case, then yes, I agree.

[this_is_nascar 162]

Problem is, there was a report by one of the media sources that had Z loosing visual contact and then later confronted by T. So what story do you want to go by.. Problem with the media, is they suck and sensationalize things, they omit things to make for a better story to sell.

 

Like I said, when all the facts are known it's all speculation, and tell me what had happened after the media explosion hasn't swayed public opinion due to what story has been told the most.

 

 

Agreed, about the speculation. All I say is that as soon as 911 instructed/advised/suggested he cease and he DOES NOT, he puts himself in a predator role, whether he was only looking to find out where he was going or not.

[DevsAdvocate 112]

It doesn't matter. A jury will sit there, guaranteed, and as soon as they hear that he continued to pursue after being told/suggested/instructed to cease, his *ss is grass. At that point, he becomes the predator and puts himself in the situation that caused the death.

 

He didn't continue 'pursuit' of crap. He was trying to relay information to the police as to the whereabouts of TM. It's not like he was chasing the kid down or anything trying to arrest him. In fact, he actually complied with police and did stop following him. All he did was leave his vehicle to see which way Trayvon went when he cut through other peoples' lawns.

 

Dispatcher:

Sanford Police Department. ...

Zimmerman:

Hey we've had some break-ins in my neighborhood, and there's a real suspicious guy, uh, [near] Retreat View Circle, um, the best address I can give you is 111 Retreat View Circle. This guy looks like he's up to no good, or he's on drugs or something. It's raining and he's just walking around, looking about.

Dispatcher:

OK, and this guy is he white, black, or Hispanic?

Zimmerman:

He looks black.

Dispatcher:

Did you see what he was wearing?

Zimmerman:

Yeah. A dark hoodie, like a grey hoodie, and either jeans or sweatpants and white tennis shoes. He's [unintelligible], he was just staring...

Dispatcher:

OK, he's just walking around the area...

Zimmerman:

...looking at all the houses.

Dispatcher:

OK...

Zimmerman:

Now he's just staring at me.

Dispatcher:

OK—you said it's 1111 Retreat View? Or 111?

Zimmerman:

That's the clubhouse...

Dispatcher:

That's the clubhouse, do you know what the—he's near the clubhouse right now?

Zimmerman:

Yeah, now he's coming towards me.

Dispatcher:

OK.

Zimmerman:

He's got his hand in his waistband. And he's a black male.

Dispatcher:

How old would you say he looks?

Zimmerman:

He's got button on his shirt, late teens.

Dispatcher:

Late teens ok.

Zimmerman:

Somethings wrong with him. Yup, he's coming to check me out, he's got something in his hands, I don't know what his deal is.

Dispatcher:

Just let me know if he does anything ok

Zimmerman:

How long until you get an officer over here?

Dispatcher:

Yeah we've got someone on the way, just let me know if this guy does anything else.

Zimmerman:

Okay. These assholes they always get away. When you come to the clubhouse you come straight in and make a left. Actually you would go past the clubhouse.

Dispatcher:

So it's on the lefthand side from the clubhouse?

Zimmerman:

No you go in straight through the entrance and then you make a left...uh you go straight in, don't turn, and make a left. Shit he's running.

Dispatcher:

He's running? Which way is he running?

Zimmerman:

Down towards the other entrance to the neighborhood.

Dispatcher:

Which entrance is that that he's heading towards?

Zimmerman:

The back entrance...friggin [disputed/unintelligible]

Dispatcher:

Are you following him?

Zimmerman:

Yeah

Dispatcher:

Ok, we don't need you to do that.

Zimmerman:

Ok

Dispatcher:

Alright sir what is your name?

Zimmerman:

George...He ran.

Dispatcher:

Alright George what's your last name?

Zimmerman:

Zimmerman

Dispatcher:

And George what's the phone number you're calling from?

Zimmerman:

[redacted]

Dispatcher:

Alright George we do have them on the way, do you want to meet with the officer when they get out there?

Zimmerman:

Alright, where you going to meet with them at?

Zimmerman:

If they come in through the gate, tell them to go straight past the club house, and uh, straight past the club house and make a left, and then they go past the mailboxes, that's my truck...[unintelligible]

Dispatcher:

What address are you parked in front of?

Zimmerman:

I don't know, it's a cut through so I don't know the address.

Dispatcher:

Okay do you live in the area?

Zimmerman:

Yeah, I...[unintelligible]

Dispatcher:

What's your apartment number?

Zimmerman:

It's a home it's 1950, oh crap I don't want to give it all out, I don't know where this kid is.

Dispatcher:

Okay do you want to just meet with them right near the mailboxes then?

Zimmerman:

Yeah that's fine.

Dispatcher:

Alright George, I'll let them know to meet you around there okay?

Zimmerman:

Actually could you have them call me and I'll tell them where I'm at?

Dispatcher:

Okay, yeah that's no problem.

Zimmerman:

Should I give you my number or you got it?

Dispatcher:

Yeah I got it [redacted]

Zimmerman:

Yeah you got it.

Dispatcher:

Okay no problem, I'll let them know to call you when you're in the area.

Zimmerman:

Thanks.

Dispatcher:

You're welcome.

[BarkNBite 15]

A 1 minute gap..........................T could have gone home and left the area.......obviously he chose to return to confront and Assualt Z.

 

Second Degree Murder.................conductor please check the train schedule........all aboard.

[woodentoe 14]

Please, read the law. Just like we ask everyone to do every time someone comes on the forum saying hollowpoints are illegal or loaded mags are firearms. We tell them to read the law.

 

Google "Florida stand your ground law" , go to the Florida statutes website and read the statute pertaining to use of deadly force/justification

 

There is nothing in the current swath of "evidence" pit forth by the media that shows GZ violated that law. Hopefully for the folks who have decided guilt, there is more evidence. Hopefully, for george Zimmerman, he's telling the truth and there is not more to the story that implicates him.

[DevsAdvocate 112]

Please, read the law. Just like we ask everyone to do every time someone comes on the forum saying hollowpoints are illegal or loaded mags are firearms. We tell them to read the law.

 

Google "Florida stand your ground law" , go to the Florida statutes website and read the statute pertaining to use of deadly force/justification

 

There is nothing in the current swath of "evidence" pit forth by the media that shows GZ violated that law. Hopefully for the folks who have decided guilt, there is more evidence. Hopefully, for george Zimmerman, he's telling the truth and there is not more to the story that implicates him.

 

The issue here is that the law doesn't apply here. The law protects your from having a 'duty to retreat'. He didn't shoot Trayvon from 15 feet away because he felt threatened... he was already under attack. This is a justifiable homicide.

[this_is_nascar 162]

He didn't continue 'pursuit' of crap. He was trying to relay information to the police as to the whereabouts of TM. It's not like he was chasing the kid down or anything trying to arrest him. In fact, he actually complied with police and did stop following him. All he did was leave his vehicle to see which way Trayvon went when he cut through other peoples' lawns.

 

Dispatcher:

Sanford Police Department. ...

 

Zimmerman:

Hey we've had some break-ins in my neighborhood, and there's a real suspicious guy, uh, [near] Retreat View Circle, um, the best address I can give you is 111 Retreat View Circle. This guy looks like he's up to no good, or he's on drugs or something. It's raining and he's just walking around, looking about.

 

Dispatcher:

OK, and this guy is he white, black, or Hispanic?

 

Zimmerman:

He looks black.

 

Dispatcher:

Did you see what he was wearing?

 

Zimmerman:

Yeah. A dark hoodie, like a grey hoodie, and either jeans or sweatpants and white tennis shoes. He's [unintelligible], he was just staring...

 

Dispatcher:

OK, he's just walking around the area...

 

Zimmerman:

...looking at all the houses.

 

Dispatcher:

OK...

 

Zimmerman:

Now he's just staring at me.

 

Dispatcher:

OK—you said it's 1111 Retreat View? Or 111?

 

Zimmerman:

That's the clubhouse...

 

Dispatcher:

That's the clubhouse, do you know what the—he's near the clubhouse right now?

 

Zimmerman:

Yeah, now he's coming towards me.

 

Dispatcher:

OK.

 

Zimmerman:

He's got his hand in his waistband. And he's a black male.

 

Dispatcher:

How old would you say he looks?

 

Zimmerman:

He's got button on his shirt, late teens.

 

Dispatcher:

Late teens ok.

 

Zimmerman:

Somethings wrong with him. Yup, he's coming to check me out, he's got something in his hands, I don't know what his deal is.

 

Dispatcher:

Just let me know if he does anything ok

 

Zimmerman:

How long until you get an officer over here?

 

Dispatcher:

Yeah we've got someone on the way, just let me know if this guy does anything else.

 

Zimmerman:

Okay. These assholes they always get away. When you come to the clubhouse you come straight in and make a left. Actually you would go past the clubhouse.

 

Dispatcher:

So it's on the lefthand side from the clubhouse?

 

Zimmerman:

No you go in straight through the entrance and then you make a left...uh you go straight in, don't turn, and make a left. Shit he's running.

 

Dispatcher:

He's running? Which way is he running?

 

Zimmerman:

Down towards the other entrance to the neighborhood.

 

Dispatcher:

Which entrance is that that he's heading towards?

 

Zimmerman:

The back entrance...friggin [disputed/unintelligible]

 

Dispatcher:

Are you following him?

 

Zimmerman:

Yeah

 

Dispatcher:

Ok, we don't need you to do that.

 

Zimmerman:

Ok

 

Dispatcher:

Alright sir what is your name?

 

Zimmerman:

George...He ran.

 

Dispatcher:

Alright George what's your last name?

 

Zimmerman:

Zimmerman

 

Dispatcher:

And George what's the phone number you're calling from?

 

Zimmerman:

[redacted]

 

Dispatcher:

Alright George we do have them on the way, do you want to meet with the officer when they get out there?

 

Zimmerman:

Alright, where you going to meet with them at?

 

Zimmerman:

If they come in through the gate, tell them to go straight past the club house, and uh, straight past the club house and make a left, and then they go past the mailboxes, that's my truck...[unintelligible]

 

Dispatcher:

What address are you parked in front of?

 

Zimmerman:

I don't know, it's a cut through so I don't know the address.

 

Dispatcher:

Okay do you live in the area?

 

Zimmerman:

Yeah, I...[unintelligible]

 

Dispatcher:

What's your apartment number?

 

Zimmerman:

It's a home it's 1950, oh crap I don't want to give it all out, I don't know where this kid is.

 

Dispatcher:

Okay do you want to just meet with them right near the mailboxes then?

 

Zimmerman:

Yeah that's fine.

 

Dispatcher:

Alright George, I'll let them know to meet you around there okay?

 

Zimmerman:

Actually could you have them call me and I'll tell them where I'm at?

 

Dispatcher:

Okay, yeah that's no problem.

 

Zimmerman:

Should I give you my number or you got it?

 

Dispatcher:

Yeah I got it [redacted]

 

Zimmerman:

Yeah you got it.

 

Dispatcher:

Okay no problem, I'll let them know to call you when you're in the area.

 

Zimmerman:

Thanks.

 

Dispatcher:

You're welcome.

 

 

 

 

If this is, in fact, how it went down, then I stand corrected. Anyone else find it interesting that he never identified himself as a member of Town Watch, let alone a high-ranking member?

[DevsAdvocate 112]

 

 

 

If this is, in fact, how it went down, then I stand corrected. Anyone else find it interesting that he never identified himself as a member of Town Watch, let alone a high-ranking member?

 

I would think that information is irrelevant to the police/911 operator. Even if he was an official member of the neighborhood watch, that position conveys no authority at all.

[Tosser 61]

 

 

 

If this is, in fact, how it went down, then I stand corrected. Anyone else find it interesting that he never identified himself as a member of Town Watch, let alone a high-ranking member?

 

What does it matter? He is a concerned citizen who is sick of repeated break ins in his area. If anyone was walking in-between houses of my development I would defiantly call 911 and have in the past. (If i didn't recognize them)

 

It wouldn't be stretch to confront them and say hey guy what are you doing...

 

BTW listening to what the dispatcher says is not required. There have been situations where people have shot and killed intruders when dispatch told them not too. (They were 'good' shoots)

[hd2000fxdl 422]

Agreed, about the speculation. All I say is that as soon as 911 instructed/advised/suggested he cease and he DOES NOT, he puts himself in a predator role, whether he was only looking to find out where he was going or not.

 

Ray, what about the report Z lost sight of T and then was later confronted by T, I don't call that being the predator.. Like I said, WE DO NOT KNOW WHAT REALLY HAPPENED. There are multiple stories, and your basing it on what story you have heard the most in the media, and believe me if the media is as accurate with this as they are with reports on my industry, well lets just say, what we have heard is nothing close to what really happened.

[67gtonut 847]

The biggest issue for Zimmerman, as far as I'm concerned, is the fact that 1) he didn't cease follow/chase when suggested by the 911-Operator and 2) the fact that an unarmed kid was shot and killed. From the facts that we have as of right this minute, Zimmerman put himself in the situation he found himself in.

 

His other issue is that video of him arriving at the police station...... Very hard to see any indication that he was just in the fight for his life and any of the injuries he and the police claim that he incurred

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk excuse the spelling

[Malsua 1,422]

Very hard to see any indication that he was just in the fight for his life and any of the injuries he and the police claim that he incurred

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk excuse the spelling

 

Two things...first, it was hours later and he'd been cleaned up and if you look at the high quality video without the News Logo covering Zimmerman's head, you can clearly see the wounds.

[67gtonut 847]

Ok never saw that

Good to know...

I try and stay away from this topic.... I am still undecided myself of what happened.

But this morning TM's mom even said it was a horrible accident...... So murder 2 will never stick

I for see a manslaughter conviction possible

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk excuse the spelling

[Malsua 1,422]

Ok never saw that

Good to know...

I try and stay away from this topic.... I am still undecided myself of what happened.

But this morning TM's mom even said it was a horrible accident...... So murder 2 will never stick

I for see a manslaughter conviction possible

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk excuse the spelling

 

Everyone should read this article: http://pjmedia.com/blog/why-i-called-george-zimmerman-a-murderer-and-why-i-was-wrong/?singlepage=true

 

It's the clearest explanation of all the facts involved that I've seen to date. Sadly most people won't even click on the link and fewer still will read it to the end.

[Ronald Silver 2]

hmmm...that DA looks kinda hot.

sorry, didn't have me spectacles on....

[raz-0 1,259]

My take on it was Zimmerman was stupid, and what he wound up with is a situation where nobody will ever know what exactly happened. The initial investigation gave him the benefit of the doubt, but because it is a situation without certainty, you now have politicians with a bunch of angry people behind him saying if that's the case, he can't prove he didn't. He picked the wrong situation to escalate.

[MarkWVU02 47]

Here's a few things I've noticed recently.

 

1) In the 911 call he never says he's heading back towards car he says "can you have the officer call me when he gets here". If he was going to be by his car why didn't he just say that.

 

2) it was cold and rainy in Florida that night. I see nothing suspicious about wearing a hood

 

3) if GZ intended to kill Trayvon in cold blood why just the 1 shot. I figure you could still take 2-3 and claim self defense. Only taking one shot makes me feel the SD claim might be legit. If that makes sense.

 

 

I'm all over the place on this one. I think there are too many what ifs to just let Z go. Could be an interesting trial. Good luck finding an impartial jury.

[woodentoe 14]

I'm all over the place on this one. I think there are too many what ifs to just let Z go. Could be an interesting trial. Good luck finding an impartial jury.

 

Too many what ifs is exactly why Z will be let go. Proof beyond reasonable doubt is the requirement in court.

[Tosser 61]

I know some of you will get all bent over this but this is why it's better when you're involved in a Self defense shooting for the assailant (aggressor) to die. Then it's your story and the evidence available that will determine your guilt/innocence.

[DirtyDigz 1,812]

Everyone should read this article: http://pjmedia.com/b...singlepage=true

 

It's the clearest explanation of all the facts involved that I've seen to date. Sadly most people won't even click on the link and fewer still will read it to the end.

 

I did read all the way to the end, and agree that it does a better job than most of sticking to facts.

 

One fact that that article left out - the medical examiner for Martin's body is reported to have said that there were no injuries to his hands such as bloodied/bruised knuckles. So that casts doubt in my mind that Martin punched Zimmerman in the face much, if at all. Doesn't mean he didn't attack/injure Zimmerman some other way though.

[compujas 21]

Everyone should read this article: http://pjmedia.com/b...singlepage=true

 

It's the clearest explanation of all the facts involved that I've seen to date. Sadly most people won't even click on the link and fewer still will read it to the end.

 

Challenge accepted! It was a good read and very succinct. Glad to see that at least one person was able to admit they were wrong and even then backed it up with links to the stories that explain it.

[DevsAdvocate 112]

I did read all the way to the end, and agree that it does a better job than most of sticking to facts.

 

One fact that that article left out - the medical examiner for Martin's body is reported to have said that there were no injuries to his hands such as bloodied/bruised knuckles. So that casts doubt in my mind that Martin punched Zimmerman in the face much, if at all. Doesn't mean he didn't attack/injure Zimmerman some other way though.

 

It depends on the nature of the attack. Zimmerman said that TM was slamming his head into the ground...

[this_is_nascar 162]

Calm down everyone. I already said that I retract my "predator" label, assuming that the 911-Operator transcript shown here is fact. As far as my comment about not identifying himself as a Town Watch person on the call, I certainly do find that strange. I was on our local Town Watch many years ago. The 1st thing you are taught is to identify yourself as such if/when you have to call the police to report activity. Also, being a ranking official of the Town Watch, I can't believe his first sentence to the 911-Operator wasn't, "Hi, this is George Zimmerman from the ____________ Town Watch and I like to report suspicious activity".

 

I'm not insinuating or speculating that this means anything at all, but I do find it strange and interesting that he never mentioned being a member of TW.

[JackDaWack 2,895]

Since we still don't know anything more then we did before he was charge.... I really hope there not doing this just to pleases the masses. There is a serious amount of doubt surrounding the charge, i would be pissed if they charged him and wasted all of this money when they know they wont get a conviction.

[this_is_nascar 162]

Since we still don't know anything more then we did before he was charge.... I really hope there not doing this just to pleases the masses./ There is a serious amount of doubt surrounding the charge, i would be pissed if they charged him and wasted all of this money when they know they wont get a conviction.

 

 

Why else do you think they'd be doing it? Of coarse, it's because of public outcry. I can't believe something would have surfaced from then until now, giving them anything more to reason to charge him. I truly believe it was due to the public.

[Malsua 1,422]

 

 

One fact that that article left out - the medical examiner for Martin's body is reported to have said that there were no injuries to his hands such as bloodied/bruised knuckles.

 

Did you know that bruising stops when your heart stops? There may not have been time for his hands to show evidence of striking mr Zimmerman.

[JackDaWack 2,895]

Did you know that bruising stops when your heart stops? There may not have been time for his hands to show evidence of striking mr Zimmerman.

After a day or 2 you would be able to tell. Postmortem bruising does occur, but it is much slower in revealing itself and of course not nearly as noticeable as a bruise a living person would get. Since blood stop flowing, you don't get color dis-figuration that is commonly associated with bruising, Black and blue, but under a UV light, you should be able to see an increase in cell deterioration, which is why it takes longer to show. This is actually how ME's tell if a wound was created pre or post mortem. Most cells in your body continue to live well past you die, your brain cells are generally first to go because of the amount of oxygen they require. We wouldn;t be able to transplant things like hearts if this wasn't the case.

 

What bothers me is that we even have info from the ME, this is material that should not be released to the public until after the trail. It could be completely wrong, as no one in the public has a copy of the report, so to even start to speculate on what is in the report is just plain dumb.

[woodentoe 14]

 

I did read all the way to the end, and agree that it does a better job than most of sticking to facts.

 

One fact that that article left out - the medical examiner for Martin's body is reported to have said that there were no injuries to his hands such as bloodied/bruised knuckles. So that casts doubt in my mind that Martin punched Zimmerman in the face much, if at all. Doesn't mean he didn't attack/injure Zimmerman some other way though.

 

You do realize that this statement was not made by the Seminole county medical examiner as part of an autopsy. It was made by the mortician who prepared martins body for burial. I'm not calling the guy a liar, but it is suspect to present this as some sort of forensic evidence.

 

Please cite the source of that information.