LE Friend Not Arrested for OC in Front of Chief

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

I understand that this guy has done a lot for the LE community, both here in NJ and also in Philadelphia, but that should not put him above the law. I'm just speechless that this happened. What do you think would happen if you or I decided to OC in the presence of the police??

 

Read it and be amazed...

 

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/20120504_Friend_of_cops_dons_blues__illegal_gun_without_penalty.html

 

Adios,

 

PIzza Bob

[Sandy 44]

Preferential treatment of that nature is infuriating , indeed.

[HarryLee 0]

This is just another instance of having 2 set of standards. One for the connected & one for the rest of us zaps.

Try tailgating a speeding police car & your'll find out fast

[johnp 45]

Maybe we just found a loophole to open carry; impersonate a cop and do whatever you want.

[RedBowTies88 41]

Margate... Enough said

 

I know personally of how crooked they are there.. my grandfather used to be the chief of ventnor and my other grandfather was a margate officer. Lets just say they didn't get along

[GRIZ 3,369]

Does anyone know for sure that is a genuine Glock he is carrying or a stage gun? Hard to tell just by looking at what sticks out of the holster.

[DirtyDigz 1,812]

Infuriating. If I donate enough to South Jersey/Philadelphia police departments can I ignore the law too?

[BlueLineFish 615]

Wow.. As a police officer I am appalled. The cops correctly arrested him and they are getting suspended. Some philanthropist. The whole police uniform and OC thing is shameful. If a family member of mine tried that I would crucify them let alone some lawyer who thinks he's a cop. This story infuriates me. Let me catch that guy up here pulling that shit and watch how fast I lock him up.

[hopper 36]

Wow.. As a police officer I am appalled. The cops correctly arrested him and they are getting suspended. Some philanthropist. The whole police uniform and OC thing is shameful. If a family member of mine tried that I would crucify them let alone some lawyer who thinks he's a cop. This story infuriates me. Let me catch that guy up here pulling that shit and watch how fast I lock him up.

I like your way of thinking Bluelinefish !!!!!!!

[Qel Hoth 33]

Even if it was a fake gun isn't possessing an imitation firearm also a crime? Or is that only at a school.

 

Any way the state can prosecute him (and the chief?).

[Midwest 28]

Lawyer Jimmy Binns sported an authentic-looking Philly police uniform, complete with an unpermitted .40-caliber Glock, at the 2010 Hero Thrill Show in Margate, N.J."

 

 

This was covered up for two years!

[keithco88 3]

Infuriating. If I donate enough to South Jersey/Philadelphia police departments can I ignore the law too?

 

Y-E-S

 

guarantee you if you sent the guy's kid to college for a year or two you could do whatever you want in that town. Or just be a lawyer on retainer for them for free...

 

I'm not saying most LEOs, or any more than a few, are like this...but that doesn't make the behavior condoned.

[GRIZ 3,369]

If no one has first hand info that was a genuine Glock in his holster at that time there is zero chance of prosecuting anyone. Where were these "concerned anonymous sources" nearly two years ago when this was happening? This sounds like the guy had or didn't have the gun and there are factions trying to make a pissing match out of this two years later.

[vladtepes 1,060]

the guy sounds like a complete lunatic...

[forayzor 1]

Yea this guy sounds like he has a few problems

[Dan 177]

Nothing will ever happen. They have no proof that the gun is real, or a stage prop. The time to take action was for LE to check the gun once they saw it on him.

 

Frankly I'm surprised they didn't just say "It looked fake, so we didn't check" excuse.

 

NJ gun laws working as intended... Let the rich/well connected enjoy gun ownership as if it was free America (typically they get carry permits first, that slide right through), and throw the rest of us to the wolves if we don't follow dozens of ambiguous (and ridiculous) regulations.

[john q publik 10]

Doesn't matter....in NJ it's illegal to carry an "imitation firearm" as much as a real one.

[GRIZ 3,369]

Doesn't matter....in NJ it's illegal to carry an "imitation firearm" as much as a real one.

 

Statute?

[vjf915 456]

Aside from the whole issue with open carrying a gun, he was apparently wearing a department issue uniform...so couldn't he also be slammed for impersonating an officer?

[GRIZ 3,369]

Aside from the whole issue with open carrying a gun, he was apparently wearing a department issue uniform...so couldn't he also be slammed for impersonating an officer?

 

No as he didn't try to exert authority.

[vjf915 456]

Statute?

 

2C:39-4

 

e. Imitation Firearms. Any person who has in his possession an imitation firearm under circumstances that would lead an observer to reasonably believe that it is possessed for an unlawful purpose is guilty of a crime of the fourth degree.

 

Open carrying is illegal for civilians in NJ. Therefore, open carrying an imitation firearm would also be illegal.

[Midwest 28]

According to this, the law was approved in 1997

 

 

 

POSSESSION OF AN IMITATION FIREARM FOR UNLAWFUL PURPOSE

(N.J.S.A. 2C:39-4(e))

 

Approved 12/8/97

 

 

http://www.judiciary.state.nj.us/criminal/charges/weapons11.pdf

[GRIZ 3,369]

 

 

 

 

Open carrying is illegal for civilians in NJ. Therefore, open carrying an imitation firearm would also be illegal.

 

Okay if it was a stage gun what did he do to lead anyone to believe it was for an an illegal purpose? If what anyone does doesn't fit all the elements of the statute there is no crime.

 

I'm not trying to defend this cop wannabe but it doesn't look like he can be charged with anything at this time.

 

[Midwest 28]

New Jersey probably has a method that handles stage guns. However in New York City there is such a thing as a "NYC Theatrical Weapons Permit" and here is a detailed account on how it is handled......

 

"The kinds of prop and replica firearms that require a license to rent and transport are registered and tracked by the NYPD just like real guns, "

 

http://www.props.eric-hart.com/features/nyc-theatrical-weapons-permit/

 

Here is the NYPD link for the the permit instructions

http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/downloads/pdf/permits/Special_theatrical_permit_instructions_3.pdf

[vjf915 456]

Okay if it was a stage gun what did he do to lead anyone to believe it was for an an illegal purpose? If what anyone does doesn't fit all the elements of the statute there is no crime.

 

I'm not trying to defend this cop wannabe but it doesn't look like he can be charged with anything at this time.

Trust me I more than understand what you're doing, I play devils advocate all the time. I also understand that all elements need to be there, I studied criminal justice in school.

1. Exhibit S- is an imitation firearm. Check (assuming the firearm was fake, and not real)

2. Defendant possessed S- , the alleged imitation firearm. Check, proof is in the picture.

3. Defendant possessed the imitation firearm under circumstances that would lead an

observer to reasonably believe that it is possessed for an unlawful purpose. Open carry is illegal for a citizen in NJ, therefore in my opinion, his intended purpose for any imitation firearm would also be illegal.

4. Defendant knew that an observer would reasonably believe that the imitation firearm

was possessed for an unlawful purpose. I'm not a lawyer, but there isn't much he can defend against this one. He doesn't fit the legal definition of insane, and ignorance is not an excuse.

[PK90 3,570]

Would these children be arrested if they were off their property based on "imitation" and "CCW"?

 

 

IMO, CCW does not qualify as "possessed for an unlawful purpose". The possession, yes, but not the unlawful purpose portion. That certainly would be a first.

[NJScott 15]

I'm flabbergasted by this if only because my knowledge of Jimmy Binns comes from spending many years in the boxing business, where he was a major player. I had no idea that he had the Blue Fever to this extent, and that he would have the unmitigated balls to conduct himself in this manner.

 

Oh man, am I forwarding this link to everybody I knew back in the day, LOL.

[GRIZ 3,369]

New Jersey probably has a method that handles stage guns. However in New York City there is such a thing as a "NYC Theatrical Weapons Permit" and here is a detailed account on how it is handled...... "The kinds of prop and replica firearms that require a license to rent and transport are registered and tracked by the NYPD just like real guns, " http://www.props.eric-hart.com/features/nyc-theatrical-weapons-permit/ Here is the NYPD link for the the permit instructions http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/downloads/pdf/permits/Special_theatrical_permit_instructions_3.pdf

 

NJ doesn't have a theatrical permit AFAIK. If they did you would need one for airsoft guns.

 

Trust me I more than understand what you're doing, I play devils advocate all the time. I also understand that all elements need to be there, I studied criminal justice in school.

 

I'm not playing devil's advocate as I'm not just taking the opposite side just to test the original argument. I'm stating facts. I worked as a LEO for over 30 years and you're not going to convince anyone that because OC of a genuine handgun is illegal OC of an imitation handgun is illegal. Apples and oranges. You still fail to show an unlawful purpose. You don't have to defend a lawful activity (dressing up like a cop and carrying a phony gun).

 

Would these children be arrested if they were off their property based on "imitation" and "CCW"? IMO, CCW does not qualify as "possessed for an unlawful purpose". The possession, yes, but not the unlawful purpose portion. That certainly would be a first.

 

PK90 thanx for the photos which illustrate the point "more than a thousand words". The kids would be just as guilty of the imitation firearms law as this guy.

[johnp 45]

GRIZ, I have a question for you.

 

So you're telling me I could wear a genuine issue police uniform, and carry an imitation pistol in an open holster. And I wouldn't be charged with any kind of crime?

Assuming I'm not exerting authority, just going about my daily business.

[vjf915 456]

I'm not playing devil's advocate as I'm not just taking the opposite side just to test the original argument. I'm stating facts. I worked as a LEO for over 30 years and you're not going to convince anyone that because OC of a genuine handgun is illegal OC of an imitation handgun is illegal. Apples and oranges. You still fail to show an unlawful purpose. You don't have to defend a lawful activity (dressing up like a cop and carrying a phony gun).

 

PK90 thanx for the photos which illustrate the point "more than a thousand words". The kids would be just as guilty of the imitation firearms law as this guy.

 

I hardly think that anyone would reasonably believe a 7 year old child with a Halloween costume, and an extremely cheap looking plastic gun with an orange tip, would mistake it for a real gun. That's VERY different from someone dressing in a GENUINE police officers uniform, riding an authentic looking highway patrol bike, and carrying a very detailed looking handgun. The key words are "reasonable belief". Nobody will reasonably believe the kid is carrying a gun, but quite a bit of people would reasonably believe he was carrying a real gun.

 

As for the unlawful purpose. Robbing someone at gunpoint with a real gun is illegal, as is robbing someone while threatening them with a real gun. Therefore, to me, open carrying a fake gun would be illegal if someone reasonably believes that it's a real gun. The way I read that statute wasn't that use of a fake gun is only illegal if you break some other law with it. I understand it to mean that if it's illegal to do with a real gun, it's illegal to do with a fake gun. I'm not a lawyer or a judge, so I could be wrong.