EDC knife in self-defense situtation

[iRescue 0]

Looking for a bit of feedback here.

 

I carry a cold steel knife on a daily basis. I am a ff/EMT and keep it on my should I come across an accident scene / have to go on a run etc. it's been an extremely useful tool over the past decade of my emergency response career. I have never,thankfully, encountered any LEO that has given me a problem about the knife.

 

Now - should I ever encounter a situation out on the road lets say taking a run in the park - where I am being attacked - can/should I use my knife?

 

Would you?

[alec.mc 180]

run faster.

[Malsua 1,422]

If I was in fear of my life and unable to retreat, I would use whatever tools I had available at the time. I usually have my EDC with me, so yes, I would use it.

[Sigman 41]

I would try to retreat if possible and pick up a rock along the way. Use the knife as a last resort.

[bulpup 98]

Yes. I would. You at least have the excuse of carrying that knife for work. Just because you were running and attacked doesn't mean you weren't carrying the knife in case you came upon a scene that would require you to act as an EMT.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[RecessedFilter 222]

I'd jog with pepper spray, or preferably bear spray.

 

But if I was unable to retreat, hell f&*E(** yeah I'm defending myself with an EDC knife.

[HarryLee 0]

run faster.

+1

Premediatated act of bringing a knife on a run is not good.

What may pass as self defense is using those jogging weights in your hands to swing & box with, in case you are attacked?

[iRescue 0]

+1

Premediatated act of bringing a knife on a run is not good.

What may pass as self defense is using those jogging weights in your hands to swing & box with, in case you are attacked?

 

A run, shopping, sitting out on my front lawn - I'm taking in general guys and gals

 

If I am carrying my Every Day Carry knife for a lawful purpose (in this case - in the capacity of a volunteer firefighter/EMT who can be paged out to an incident at anytime or may come across a situation where he is obligated to respond) - and I am attacked - can I / Should I use it?

[BlueLineFish 615]

As a volly you shouldn't have an issue. You have a duty to act and may need to use that knife at any time for CPR or other situation. As an LEO you having that on you at any given time is acceptable.

[this_is_nascar 162]

A run, shopping, sitting out on my front lawn - I'm taking in general guys and gals

 

If I am carrying my Every Day Carry knife for a lawful purpose (in this case - in the capacity of a volunteer firefighter/EMT who can be paged out to an incident at anytime or may come across a situation where he is obligated to respond) - and I am attacked - can I / Should I use it?

 

 

I guess I don't understand. If you're being attacked and can not retreat or escape, why would you not use it? What am I missing?

[iRescue 0]

Just wondering if it is legal.

 

A lot of the talk on here is if you can simply carry the knife - but I haven't seen much discussion on if it can be used in a self defense situation.

 

As BlueFish pointed out - many LEOs that I've dealt with - many even outside of my jurisdiction - have said they would not bother me for possessing the knife due to the nature of my job.

 

I've just never heard of many self defense situations where the victim

Defended himself with a knife outside the home wherever they may be.

 

At the end of the day - if it came to a life or death situation with no other choice - i think id use what I had on me.

[this_is_nascar 162]

Just wondering if it is legal.

 

A lot of the talk on here is if you can simply carry the knife - but I haven't seen much discussion on if it can be used in a self defense situation.

 

As BlueFish pointed out - many LEOs that I've dealt with - many even outside of my jurisdiction - have said they would not bother me for possessing the knife due to the nature of my job.

 

I've just never heard of many self defense situations where the victim

Defended himself with a knife outside the home wherever they may be.

 

At the end of the day - if it came to a life or death situation with no other choice - i think id use what I had on me.

 

 

DING, DING DING. We have a winner with a correct answer .

[BRaptor 68]

Just wondering if it is legal.

 

A lot of the talk on here is if you can simply carry the knife - but I haven't seen much discussion on if it can be used in a self defense situation.

 

As BlueFish pointed out - many LEOs that I've dealt with - many even outside of my jurisdiction - have said they would not bother me for possessing the knife due to the nature of my job.

 

I've just never heard of many self defense situations where the victim

Defended himself with a knife outside the home wherever they may be.

 

At the end of the day - if it came to a life or death situation with no other choice - i think id use what I had on me.

 

There is standing precedent (in the NJ appellate division) that intentionally arming yourself with a "weapon" for the purposes of self-defense does not fall within the "lawful purposes" clause of the statute. Not only that, but the defendant in that case was about as sympathetic as you get. She was a battered woman (beaten by her abusive boyfriend), escorting her child home from the park, when her abusive boyfriend attacked her, unprovoked. She defended herself with a box-cutter (not a knife, a friggin BOX CUTTER), and her conviction of unlawful possession of a weapon (or whatever) was upheld!

 

The court said that spontaneously arming yourself with something that was lying around is OK, but intentionally arming yourself before you left the house, just in case of confrontation is not OK.

 

I don't know what the outcome would be, now that the US Supreme Court has said that self-defense is a basic human right, fundamental to our principles of ordered liberty. I don't want to be the test case.

 

My theory is that all your problems start when you talk to the police. If you're ever involved in ANY altercation, do not talk to the police. They're not your friend (they're not really your enemy, either), but, they are there to gather information and evidence, which is then to be presented to a prosecutor (who wants to score high arrest/conviction ratio).

 

Personally, I carry my EDC everywhere, all the time. Just never for the purposes of self-defense. My knife is a tool that may become useful at any point in time of my daily life, period.

 

If I am ever in a self-defense situation, and I have used my knife, I will not talk to the police. I will only give identifying information and a request for an attorney.

 

PS. Yes, I'm an attorney. No, this is not legal advice.

[Anselmo 87]

Looking for a bit of feedback here.

 

I carry a cold steel knife on a daily basis. I am a ff/EMT and keep it on my should I come across an accident scene / have to go on a run etc. it's been an extremely useful tool over the past decade of my emergency response career. I have never,thankfully, encountered any LEO that has given me a problem about the knife.

 

Now - should I ever encounter a situation out on the road lets say taking a run in the park - where I am being attacked - can/should I use my knife?

 

Would you?

 

In this situation, you can use your knife for self-defense. If you are a first responder type of professional and you are carrying a first responder type of knife you are good. Of course, it's not us on here that you have to convince you were carrying the knife as part of your service to the community. BTW, thank you for your service.

[Qel Hoth 33]

IMHO, if you really need to use a knife to defend your life, fugg the "law." You have to be alive to be prosecuted.

[johnp 45]

run faster.

 

+1 I lol'd pretty hard.

 

 

I carry a knife every day and faced with the situation of live or die, I would use my knife.

[GRIZ 3,369]

 

 

There is standing precedent (in the NJ appellate division) that intentionally arming yourself with a "weapon" for the purposes of self-defense does not fall within the "lawful purposes" clause of the statute. Not only that, but the defendant in that case was about as sympathetic as you get. She was a battered woman (beaten by her abusive boyfriend), escorting her child home from the park, when her abusive boyfriend attacked her, unprovoked. She defended herself with a box-cutter (not a knife, a friggin BOX CUTTER), and her conviction of unlawful possession of a weapon (or whatever) was upheld!

 

The court said that spontaneously arming yourself with something that was lying around is OK, but intentionally arming yourself before you left the house, just in case of confrontation is not OK.

 

I don't know what the outcome would be, now that the US Supreme Court has said that self-defense is a basic human right, fundamental to our principles of ordered liberty. I don't want to be the test case.

 

My theory is that all your problems start when you talk to the police. If you're ever involved in ANY altercation, do not talk to the police. They're not your friend (they're not really your enemy, either), but, they are there to gather information and evidence, which is then to be presented to a prosecutor (who wants to score high arrest/conviction ratio).

 

Personally, I carry my EDC everywhere, all the time. Just never for the purposes of self-defense. My knife is a tool that may become useful at any point in time of my daily life, period.

 

If I am ever in a self-defense situation, and I have used my knife, I will not talk to the police. I will only give identifying information and a request for an attorney.

 

PS. Yes, I'm an attorney. No, this is not legal advice.

 

I agree with some of what is said here.

 

First, you have a duty to retreat from a confrontation where you are threatened with what would be considered to be non-deadly force in NJ. Joe Crook, who is unarmed being of roughly equal size and ability as you threatens to kick your a** is a situation you have to retreat from. You have no duty to retreat from a situation where you are threatened with deadly force. Joe Crook and his three henchmen threaten to kick your a** (they may or may not be armed) would normally be considered a situation where you are threatened with death or severe injury, you do not have to retreat. It is almost always the smart thing to retreat from a deadly force situation if you can do so safely. This is a difference between LEOs and others. If someone else is threatened with deadly force and Mr Citizen happens on the scene, Mr Citizen has no obligation to defend someone else. A LEO does have an obligation.

 

So, if you are confronted with threat of serious harm or death and you have no means of escape (not because you have to but because it is the smart thing to do), defending yourself with the knife you have long established a legal purpose for carrying would seem reasonable. This would be the same as arming yourself with any weapon of opportunity.

 

If you couldn't use a firearm to defend yourself (if one were available) you can't use your knife.

 

If you do use your knife to defend yourself you need to treat the situation the same as if you used a firearm.

 

This is where my opinion on talking to the police differs from what you hear from most people on gun forums. When the police arrive and ask you what happened and you respond with "I don't want to say. anything. I want my lawyer", you leave the police little option but to arrest you and charge you.

 

IF YOU ARE CLAIMING SELF DEFENSE YOU MUST AT SOME POINT ADMIT THAT YOU INJURED OR KILLED THE BAD GUY.

 

This can be done at any time in the process from when it occurred to just before the jury goes into deliberation if you wind up going to trial. The earlier you start to establish your claim of self defense the better (and less expensive) it will be for you.

 

When the police arrive you tell them "I had to defend myself. I really don't want to talk now. I need to go to the hospital and get checked out". If the police ask for more respond that you really think you need to be checked out at the hospital. Later on you tell the police the whole story with your lawyer present. You've started to establish you did what you did in self defense and you should be medically checked out even if you don't seem to have any apparent injuries.

 

If you can't limit your response to the police to what I've said you're probably better off saying nothing, getting arrested, and going through some of the criminal justice system.

 

Masaad Ayoob gives similar advice. Research his articles and you'll find it. He's an established expert witness in most states. Neither of us are lawyers and Ayoob has given expert testimon many more times than I.

[BRaptor 68]

I agree with some of what is said here.

 

First, you have a duty to retreat from a confrontation where you are threatened with what would be considered to be non-deadly force in NJ. Joe Crook, who is unarmed being of roughly equal size and ability as you threatens to kick your a** is a situation you have to retreat from. You have no duty to retreat from a situation where you are threatened with deadly force. Joe Crook and his three henchmen threaten to kick your a** (they may or may not be armed) would normally be considered a situation where you are threatened with death or severe injury, you do not have to retreat. It is almost always the smart thing to retreat from a deadly force situation if you can do so safely. This is a difference between LEOs and others. If someone else is threatened with deadly force and Mr Citizen happens on the scene, Mr Citizen has no obligation to defend someone else. A LEO does have an obligation.

 

So, if you are confronted with threat of serious harm or death and you have no means of escape (not because you have to but because it is the smart thing to do), defending yourself with the knife you have long established a legal purpose for carrying would seem reasonable. This would be the same as arming yourself with any weapon of opportunity.

 

If you couldn't use a firearm to defend yourself (if one were available) you can't use your knife.

 

If you do use your knife to defend yourself you need to treat the situation the same as if you used a firearm.

 

This is where my opinion on talking to the police differs from what you hear from most people on gun forums. When the police arrive and ask you what happened and you respond with "I don't want to say. anything. I want my lawyer", you leave the police little option but to arrest you and charge you.

 

IF YOU ARE CLAIMING SELF DEFENSE YOU MUST AT SOME POINT ADMIT THAT YOU INJURED OR KILLED THE BAD GUY.

 

This can be done at any time in the process from when it occurred to just before the jury goes into deliberation if you wind up going to trial. The earlier you start to establish your claim of self defense the better (and less expensive) it will be for you.

 

When the police arrive you tell them "I had to defend myself. I really don't want to talk now. I need to go to the hospital and get checked out". If the police ask for more respond that you really think you need to be checked out at the hospital. Later on you tell the police the whole story with your lawyer present. You've started to establish you did what you did in self defense and you should be medically checked out even if you don't seem to have any apparent injuries.

 

If you can't limit your response to the police to what I've said you're probably better off saying nothing, getting arrested, and going through some of the criminal justice system.

 

Masaad Ayoob gives similar advice. Research his articles and you'll find it. He's an established expert witness in most states. Neither of us are lawyers and Ayoob has given expert testimon many more times than I.

 

I started to write a response tearing this post apart. But I stopped.

 

I sincerely hope that you are properly licensed and insured to give the type of legal advice that you just gave out. Your advice puts people in the path of both physical harm and unnecessary legal punishment.

 

I'm out.

[woodentoe 14]

First off, this is an Internet forum. What Griz posted is not legal advise. Everyone should be mature enough to know that.

 

Second, if I'm not mistaken, Griz is a police officer. I would say he offers some relevant insight. The accusatory tone of your post is pretty unnecessary.

 

Let's remember that opinions are like assholes. Everybody's got one.

 

I'm out.

[bry@n 195]

I carry a EDC knife every day. It is a utilty knife that I carry for the many needs I come across every day, from opening boxes, mail, cutting up boxes, cutting cables etc....

 

If the SHTF and I need to defend myself against a life threatening situation, I woul use what ever I had. Rock, my edc knife, a stick, a garbage can...dowsn't matter. In the end, I wanna be going home (and hopefully not jail). My main concern would be getting out of the situation and then worrying about the legality of what just transpired. I also agree that if I did use my edc knife in a defense scenerio, I would lawyer up before talking to anybody.

[RedRiverII 0]

I like the rock defense, it worked for thousands of years. I've personally used the heavy wire mesh garbage can defense with great results. If either party is not insane or beyond the ability to think clearly, due to let's say the excessive heat we are now witnessing, the display or presentation of a knife generally chills the mind a bit. Retreat is sometimes a wonderful offensive tactic, as well as a great defense. If you think you see trouble coming, you are probably right, GTFO. Trust your mind and intuition, you're clan has survived this long because you are among the fittest of the species. Thanks for all the posts, good thinking here.