PFOA Forum

[Jfoster99 80]

Has anyone seen the New PFOA sticky at the top of the concealed carry.

 

You can not even discuss going to PA for the purpose of ccw'ing..

 

 

http://forum.pafoa.org/concealed-carry-145/179370-about-new-jersey-transporting-carrying-pa.html

 

Someone should tell them NJ resident who bring their Handgun to PA for lawful purpose are not Felons...

 

[johnp 45]

Has anyone seen the New PFOA sticky at the top of the concealed carry.

 

You can not even discuss going to PA for the purpose of ccw'ing..

 

 

http://forum.pafoa.o...arrying-pa.html

 

Someone should tell them NJ resident who bring their Handgun to PA for lawful purpose are not Felons...

 

Who cares?

 

You live in NJ you have found the correct forum to be on....here NJGF.

[GRIZ 3,369]

I found there are a few regulars that are hard core, narrow minded extremists on that forum. They believe in 2A rights for themselves and believe if they can't carry on their PA permit in another state that anyone from that state is a godless communist taking adavantage of the law in PA. Why would a true supporter of the 2A spend the time and effort to try and prove someone with a valid permit from another state transport to that state to carry? Or verbally assault any resident of another state that open carries in PA? Never, ever refer to a PA "License to Carry Firearms" as a carry permit or anything but a LTCF. You will be corrected quickly.

 

There are a lot of nice people on that forum but there is that element that spoils it

[ExpendableRaj 1]

I'm sorry but to be honest I kind of agree with them.

 

Before you guys get mad at me hear me out.

 

The law is not cut and dry on the matter and I would understand why a website would not want questionable content on the site, especially considering the grave nature of carrying a gun illegally.

 

I understand that, as some interpret the law, it's fine to bring a gun to PA solely for carry. However when I first read the laws, I came to the opposite conclusion as the laws do not seem to allow it.

 

Personally I'm no lawyer so I refrain from making any "interpretations" about anything one way or the other. I can understand why a website would not want to risk doing the same.

[Anselmo 87]

Until the New Jersey State Supreme Court, the US 3rd District Court, or the Supreme Court of the United States says FOPA(or NJ law)covers transporting in New Jersey to a neighboring state...

 

 

It's an unintelligent argument. First, one would have to charged with illegal possession and then use the FOPA defense. If it is legal, no one would be charged and the case would never get to these high level courts.

 

Show me someone who was transporting to PA and legitimately invoked FOPA as their reason for transport and got arrested. Then, I'll concede.

[mipafox 438]

I found there are a few regulars that are hard core, narrow minded extremists on that forum. They believe in 2A rights for themselves and believe if they can't carry on their PA permit in another state that anyone from that state is a godless communist taking adavantage of the law in PA. Why would a true supporter of the 2A spend the time and effort to try and prove someone with a valid permit from another state transport to that state to carry? Or verbally assault any resident of another state that open carries in PA?

 

Name one.

 

Name one person on PAFOA that thinks you shouldn't be allowed to carry in PA because you are from NJ or any other state that doesn't recognize the PA license.

[Jfoster99 80]

I found there are a few regulars that are hard core, narrow minded extremists on that forum.

 

 

MIPAFOX,

 

Knight0334 absolutely is an extremist. You can not even Mention bringing your gun to PA for CCW purpose under FOPA. Check out his the latest sticky on the subject.

 

Anycase, let's focus on the positive topics here...

I'm sure there are a lot of great guys and gals over there...

This is a negative energey thread. I opened when i was bitter over feeling i was unfairely booted. I'd like it closed if possible. Nothing good will come of it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Soju 153]

The funniest thing about that, is I bet he has no idea what FOPA is, or says. He says "the text of New Jersey law stands as it is written", which is cool in all, but the topic he was talking about deals with going to Pennsylvania! Wouldn't it be great if there was some sort of law that covered things like traveling between states? Oh, there is? Oh, that is where FOPA comes into play? Weird.

 

The ignorance of people is astounding.

[Jfoster99 80]

I regret opening a site bashing thread.. I'd like to just close it if possible.

 

[vladtepes 1,060]

with all due respect how was this decision made....

 

I understand the context of the law.. I have read it a million times over as I USED to live in NJ...

 

with that said what you are stating is not correct (in practice at least).. and what I mean is this..

 

you are either allowed to leave NJ with your gun.. or you are not unless going DIRECTLY to an exempted location..

people fly out of NJ with handguns on a DAILY basis' date=' these are situations where they are OBVIOUSLY not going directly to and from a place of exemption..

 

If the intention of enforcement was that you may ONLY travel out of the state going directly to and from a place of exemption this practice of travel would be completely disallowed, when I contacted the NJSP firearms division they stated that my understanding of the law was correct and that I may take my personal property with me when traveling out of state but that if I were bringing my guns to PA I had to comply with PA laws once I left the state. They made no indication that I was not allowed to travel out of state with my cased unloaded handgun...

 

I understand that you do not want random idiots bringing handguns to PA just for the sake of walking around with a handgun... but irregardless of how the law may be written.. NJ in practice appears to abide by FOPA in the sense that at the origin of a NJ residents trip (his property) he may legally posses and carry said gun.. and at his destination (in this case PA)... he can do the same..

 

if this were not the case air travel would be impossible.. and that is just not the case..

 

so again.. no disrespect intended.. but how are you arriving at this conclusion..[/quote']

[vladtepes 1,060]

Name one.

 

Name one person on PAFOA that thinks you shouldn't be allowed to carry in PA because you are from NJ or any other state that doesn't recognize the PA license.

 

I am not there enough to know who is who.. but there is DEFINITELY an "anti-NJ carry" vibe there.. and in MANY cases it is justified.. lets face it.. there are MANY assclowns who go to Cabelas in PA walk around the store open carrying.. case the gun back up and come home.. there ARE many idiots who bring a gun to carry just for the sake of carrying a gun... individuals who have invested little to no training.. people who likely make the rest of us LESS safe... but not ALL NJ residents carrying in PA are doing so for that reason.. I carried in PA when I went to shows in Philly.. because that place is a shit hole.. I called NJSP on more than one occasion stating I was "just going to PA" I made it clear I was not going to a place exempted... they made NO effort to tell me not to do it.. unloaded and cased up out of reach of the occupants of the car is the distinction they made...

[ExpendableRaj 1]

I am not there enough to know who is who.. but there is DEFINITELY an "anti-NJ carry" vibe there.. and in MANY cases it is justified.. lets face it.. there are MANY assclowns who go to Cabelas in PA walk around the store open carrying.. case the gun back up and come home.. there ARE many idiots who bring a gun to carry just for the sake of carrying a gun... individuals who have invested little to no training.. people who likely make the rest of us LESS safe...

 

Well said, thank you.

 

I wouldn't doubt many residents of PA are afraid of some bozo from Jersey smoking an innocent bystander in a Cabela's parking lot and some anti-gun hack from Philly having a field day with the tragedy.

[mipafox 438]

MIPAFOX,

 

Knight0334 absolutely is an extremist. You can not even Mention bringing your gun to PA for CCW purpose under FOPA. Check out his the latest sticky on the subject.

 

In all honesty, that is the prevailing wisdom of FOPA in the world. Go ask the people on the MD forum. You guys may have it figured out, but this is not a matter of him hating on NJ people or not wanting NJ people to carry in PA. It is a matter of the forum taking a very strict stance on the most conservative interpretation of firearms laws in the absence of case law to the contrary - the interpretation of the people that actually wrote it.

 

 

 

I am not there enough to know who is who.. but there is DEFINITELY an "anti-NJ carry" vibe there.. and in MANY cases it is justified.. lets face it.. there are MANY assclowns who go to Cabelas in PA walk around the store open carrying.. case the gun back up and come home.. there ARE many idiots who bring a gun to carry just for the sake of carrying a gun... individuals who have invested little to no training.. people who likely make the rest of us LESS safe... but not ALL NJ residents carrying in PA are doing so for that reason.. I carried in PA when I went to shows in Philly.. because that place is a shit hole.. I called NJSP on more than one occasion stating I was "just going to PA" I made it clear I was not going to a place exempted... they made NO effort to tell me not to do it.. unloaded and cased up out of reach of the occupants of the car is the distinction they made...

 

I am there enough to know. And I disagree on all counts. There is definitely NOT an "anti-NJ carry" vibe there.

 

Again, I would like to see an example of it. I think you may be misconstruing the fact that they don't think it's legal. I've never heard anybody on that forum come close to suggesting that they don't want people from NJ to be able to carry.

 

and in MANY cases it is justified.. lets face it.. there are MANY assclowns who go to Cabelas in PA walk around the store open carrying.. case the gun back up and come home.. there ARE many idiots who bring a gun to carry just for the sake of carrying a gun... individuals who have invested little to no training.. people who likely make the rest of us LESS safe... but not ALL NJ residents carrying in PA are doing so for that reason..

 

I don't think any of that would justify wanting to deny people the Right to Keep and Bare Arms. I hope your opinions change.

 

Back to my original point, I've never seen anybody over there suggest that people from NJ shouldn't be able to carry in PA because NJ doesn't recognize PA's license.

[Soju 153]

Where would you find case law on a legal activity that hasn't shown to even be questionable in court before? Wouldn't a better way to judge the legality of it be based on the number of convictions? Well if nobody gets convicted, charged, or even arrested, then that seems like a better indicator that it is LEGAL as opposed to illegal. The other indicator would be the the law, you know, specifically says it is legal, again, opposed to illegal. Furthermore, NJ law doesn't even explicity say it is illegal.

 

This isn't even a matter of 'taking a conservative interpretation' of something. It is simply making something up. It is like citing a law from England and saying because of that, something here is illegal. That is nonsensical.

 

 

So how about I quote the law that applies, and not something non-applicable. Tell me where a 'strict interpretation' makes it illegal. Good luck.

 

 

18 USC § 921 DEFINITIONS

 

The term “interstate or foreign commerce” includes commerc between any place in a State and any place outside of that State.

 

 

18 USC § 926A - Interstate transportation of firearms

 

...shall be entitled to transport a firearm for any lawful purpose from any place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm to any other place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm...

[Soju 153]

For those that believe traveling to PA simply to carry is illegal, but traveling to PA going to an exempted location is legal, I have some questions.

 

1. Does the NJ transportation law apply while you are in PA?

 

2. If NJ transportation laws do NOT apply once your cross the border into PA, are you still required to go directly to an exempted location? Can you change your mind?

2a. If after going to an exempted location, are you required to go directly back to another exempted location like your home? Can you instead carry elsewhere in PA?

 

3. If NJ transportation laws do not apply in PA, and only apply while in NJ going to an exempted location in PA, does it cease to apply when you reach the PA border?

3a. If it does, unless your exempted location is on the border, is not your destination now some place other than an exempted location?

 

 

If you think NJ transportation laws apply while in PA, I implore you to show me any other state law that applies to another state.

 

If you do not think they apply in PA, but still apply while traveling to PA, I implore me to give an example of how you can leave the state, and NOT break the NJ transportation laws.

 

If you cannot do either of these things, well the reason is quite simple. Because those condition do not exist, because NJ transportation laws do NOT apply, FOPA does.

[vladtepes 1,060]

if FOPA did not apply the second you crossed the border and changed your mind about the range you could never legally return to NJ with your gun because you would not be traveling home directly from an exempted location.. that is how ridiculous this all is..

[Kaiser7 33]

I've tried going to that forum a few times, looking for AR stuff and all that (and just generally browsing their marketplace, as I am wont to do).

 

I don't feel that they have the same "close-community/friendly" vibe we have here.

 

Which is ironic since honestly, in person, the people in PA tend to be friendlier in my opinion.

[mipafox 438]

I've tried going to that forum a few times, looking for AR stuff and all that (and just generally browsing their marketplace, as I am wont to do).

 

I don't feel that they have the same "close-community/friendly" vibe we have here.

 

Which is ironic since honestly, in person, the people in PA tend to be friendlier in my opinion.

 

I don't like the place much at all. From the owner to the moderators, and the way the place is run in general. They have run off most of the experts and many of the true Second Amendment activists are relying on 2nd and 3rd generation loose recollection of their work.

 

But, I think it has enabled people to do a lot of good with respect to firearms laws. And it is a great source of information (jersey excluded) and a great way for people to meet or buy and sell locally.

 

 

Great resource, shitty hangout.

 

 

 

[mikelets456 78]

I am not there enough to know who is who.. but there is DEFINITELY an "anti-NJ carry" vibe there.. and in MANY cases it is justified.. lets face it.. there are MANY assclowns who go to Cabelas in PA walk around the store open carrying.. case the gun back up and come home.. there ARE many idiots who bring a gun to carry just for the sake of carrying a gun... individuals who have invested little to no training.. people who likely make the rest of us LESS safe... but not ALL NJ residents carrying in PA are doing so for that reason.. I carried in PA when I went to shows in Philly.. because that place is a shit hole.. I called NJSP on more than one occasion stating I was "just going to PA" I made it clear I was not going to a place exempted... they made NO effort to tell me not to do it.. unloaded and cased up out of reach of the occupants of the car is the distinction they made...

 

I'll tell you now, I moved to PA from NJ about a month ago and the gun stores I've been to and sites I've visited all have a sympathy for NJ gun owners. However, they (we) agree that the SYSTEM is corrupt and sucks. I always end the discussion with "their freedom is our freedom" and they all seem to agree. Just because there are a few "dopes" out there please don't feel we're all that way. I want NJ legal carriers over in PA. We ALL support the same cause.

[vladtepes 1,060]

I'll tell you now, I moved to PA from NJ about a month ago and the gun stores I've been to and sites I've visited all have a sympathy for NJ gun owners. However, they (we) agree that the SYSTEM is corrupt and sucks. I always end the discussion with "their freedom is our freedom" and they all seem to agree. Just because there are a few "dopes" out there please don't feel we're all that way. I want NJ legal carriers over in PA. We ALL support the same cause.

 

I live in PA now.. I would not move back to NJ unless there was some really extreme situation I can not yet envision..

it is obviously not EVERYONE in PA or even EVERYONE on the site...

 

my issue with the site is that I explained why in detail their logic was not reasonable.. and they essentially ignored me..

[Anselmo 87]

I live in PA now.. I would not move back to NJ unless there was some really extreme situation I can not yet envision..

it is obviously not EVERYONE in PA or even EVERYONE on the site...

 

my issue with the site is that I explained why in detail their logic was not reasonable.. and they essentially ignored me..

 

They took a contrary position, lost the argument and now ban any more discussion of it.

[vladtepes 1,060]

They took a contrary position, lost the argument and now ban any more discussion of it.

 

I posted recently.. in the sticky they made.. they didn't ban me..

[Soju 153]

I think vlad's point is, that even if they are right (they aren't), banning any discussion of the topic is absurd and childish. It is actually almost like if this forum banned anyone from talking about carrying in NJ. What purpose would that serve other than to push an agenda that carrying must be bad, or in this case, traveling to PA must be illegal. I can't think of any. It is frustrating when said opinion is not substantiated in law. At all. In fact the law says otherwise, and there isn't even anything to contradict it (like a conviction or even arrest for doing so).

 

If the moderators here said "using hollow points in NJ is illegal for home defense, the law is clear, there will be NO discussion of it ever again" how would people feel?

[vladtepes 1,060]

I think vlad's point is, that even if they are right (they aren't), banning any discussion of the topic is absurd and childish. It is actually almost like if this forum banned anyone from talking about carrying in NJ. What purpose would that serve other than to push an agenda that carrying must be bad, or in this case, traveling to PA must be illegal. I can't think of any. It is frustrating when said opinion is not substantiated in law. At all. In fact the law says otherwise, and there isn't even anything to contradict it (like a conviction or even arrest for doing so).

 

If the moderators here said "using hollow points in NJ is illegal for home defense, the law is clear, there will be NO discussion of it ever again" how would people feel?

 

and EVEN IF the law kind of implied it was illegal.. it is OBVIOUSLY legal in practice...

[mikelets456 78]

I do have to be honest, I did not realize how bad gun "rights" are in NJ until I moved to PA. Got my LTCF in 20 minutes... was a very pleasant experience. $20, we joked and my wife and I walked out in 20 minutes. Bought a .22LR for target practice.. quick, no going to the Police station for a permit, finger printed, day off work, etc. Stopped off to eat on the way home from the range. Ran into Walmart as well after the range.

 

The easiest way to describe the difference in "Gun acceptance" between the two states:

 

1) In NJ they ask "why do you need a gun"

2) In PA they question "Why don't you have a gun".

 

I really hope and pray NJ will follow MD and other states and lighten up on the fundamental, God given rights.

[oneshot 45]

Read the law ,its not that difficult to interpret . It is totally legal to transport your guns into PA and CCW . Vlad has pretty much explained it all in very easy to understand verbiage,and the law itself is pretty simple to understand,NUFF said

[Smokin .50 1,907]

Vlad hit the nail on the head in post #16! IMHO there is no other way of thinking.

 

Anselmo also hit on the contrary position and loss of the argument!

 

I've never been on the other forum, and now see no need to ever visit..........

 

Dave

The guy who transports to PA or anywhere else under FOPA!

[JayWilling 33]

Two points...if a person is legal to carry, what anyone from PA thinks about them carrying is crap. It's like saying they hate NJ drivers. The "other" guy is always a yahoo, but the guys from PA talking trash on NJ CCW....who are they? Are they all certified for something? Come on this is personal defense, not SEAL training.

 

Second, I have a hard time understanding why the forum would take ANY official stance on giving advice to out of state CCW people. That's just asking for liability problems.

I'm not sure it would be worth joining in their discussion. Let them make all the rules they want about their mumbling about NJ CCW...I'm definitely staying out of it.

[fats429 0]

Hello New Jersey .

 

I am a PAFOA member this is my first post . I came hear tonight to find some info for a hunting buddy who is moving to New Jersey and needs to know what he needs to do about making his hunting guns legal and I found this thread .

 

This is what hapened and why the topic is now a sticky. Some knuckle head started a thread on the topic , he was told that from his house to the middle of the Delaware river he was in a greay area going to another state to C.C. was not listed in the exemptions under FOPA. then the O.P. got mad and made some rude remarks and the Mods locked the thread . Then he started a second thread on the same topic with the same rude remarks so that got him baned . then he opened a new account and started the same topic again with the same rude tone banded again . then he did it again and again

 

 

They can not have misinformation that could get somebody locked up or illegal dicussion on a plubic forum

 

 

Yes it is true we hate New Jersey but so do you that is just the way it is . When you are in my Commonwealth (yes it is mine I owne it ) so long as you behave your self you are a welcome guest . You may walk down the street with a Barrett 107 slung over you sholder and a glock 17 on each hip with 33 round mags in each if you so chose but we will make fun of you.

 

 

Thare is some issue with MD,DE,and NY that I my self kind of take with a grain of salt how the can just come into PA go to the sheriff and get a LTCF if they have one from their home state but not the same for us . Hold the phone on MD. might be taking a ride down next week to get a MD gun permit

[vladtepes 1,060]

Hello New Jersey .

 

I am a PAFOA member this is my first post . I came hear tonight to find some info for a hunting buddy who is moving to New Jersey and needs to know what he needs to do about making his hunting guns legal and I found this thread .

 

This is what hapened and why the topic is now a sticky. Some knuckle head started a thread on the topic , he was told that from his house to the middle of the Delaware river he was in a greay area going to another state to C.C. was not listed in the exemptions under FOPA. then the O.P. got mad and made some rude remarks and the Mods locked the thread . Then he started a second thread on the same topic with the same rude remarks so that got him baned . then he opened a new account and started the same topic again with the same rude tone banded again . then he did it again and again

 

 

They can not have misinformation that could get somebody locked up or illegal dicussion on a plubic forum

 

 

Yes it is true we hate New Jersey but so do you that is just the way it is . When you are in my Commonwealth (yes it is mine I owne it ) so long as you behave your self you are a welcome guest . You may walk down the street with a Barrett 107 slung over you sholder and a glock 17 on each hip with 33 round mags in each if you so chose but we will make fun of you.

 

 

Thare is some issue with MD,DE,and NY that I my self kind of take with a grain of salt how the can just come into PA go to the sheriff and get a LTCF if they have one from their home state but not the same for us . Hold the phone on MD. might be taking a ride down next week to get a MD gun permit

 

the issue I have is this...

 

TELLING people that it is the LAW that you can NOT do it is inaccurate by practice at the very least..

 

I have explained time and time again why it is LEGAL in practice..