Self defense shotgun amo and pattern

[Combat Auto 174]

Folks, When I get my Remi 870 with Magpal furniture - what do you folks recomend as a self defense/home round? I am clueless with shotguns...I know there is a slug, double 00, bird shot etc...

 

Also, with the 870 stock choke (which the Remi-rep told me dosn't really do any choking), what sort of blast pattern/spread may I expect at 30 feet.

 

Thanks

[Ray Ray 3,566]

Folks, When I get my Remi 870 with Magpal furniture - what do you folks recomend as a self defense/home round? I am clueless with shotguns...I know there is a slug, double 00, bird shot etc...

 

Also, with the 870 stock choke (which the Remi-rep told me dosn't really do any choking), what sort of blast pattern/spread may I expect at 30 feet.

 

Thanks

 

Buy some buckshot, set the target up at 10 yards and see for yourself.

[Combat Auto 174]

Thanks I will but until then how about a hint?

[Ray Ray 3,566]

Thanks I will but until then how about a hint?

 

it all depends

 

what choke pattern is in your shotgun? and some ammo spreads more (or less) than others in different guns.

[Jon 264]

I like a tight, tight, pattern for a HD shotty. The Federal 8-pellet 00 buck with flight control wad tends to give the tightest spread of any other defense load.

[Caine 147]

Another vote for Federal LE 00 Flightcontrol loads... 8 or 9 pellet.

[Combat Auto 174]

it all depends

 

what choke pattern is in your shotgun? and some ammo spreads more (or less) than others in different guns.

The Remignton guy explained that the 870 tactical comes with a choke that really dosn't do any choking (hr had a fancy name for it but I forgot it) - it is just there so the threads are covered...He says I can buy a choke set if I want....Does this make sence? So no choking 12 guage at 30 feet

[Combat Auto 174]

I like a tight, tight, pattern for a HD shotty. The Federal 8-pellet 00 buck with flight control wad tends to give the tightest spread of any other defense load.

My kind of spread :-).

[Combat Auto 174]

I just found this - they claim that #1 buck is best due to total surface are of projectiles...What do you experience guys thing?

 

12 Gauge Shotshell Ammunition

For personal defense and law enforcement applications, the International Wound Ballistics Association advocates number 1 buckshot as being superior to all other buckshot sizes.

Number 1 buck is the smallest diameter shot that reliably and consistently penetrates more than 12 inches of standard ordnance gelatin when fired at typical shotgun engagement distances. A standard 2 ¾-inch 12 gauge shotshell contains 16 pellets of #1 buck. The total combined cross sectional area of the 16 pellets is 1.13 square inches. Compared to the total combined cross sectional area of the nine pellets in a standard #00 (double-aught) buck shotshell (0.77 square inches), the # 1 buck shotshell has the capacity to produce over 30 percent more potentially effective wound trauma.

In all shotshell loads, number 1 buckshot produces more potentially effective wound trauma than either #00 or #000 buck. In addition, number 1 buck is less likely to over-penetrate and exit an attacker's body.

[Jon 264]

I go back and forth between #1 and Federal flite control 00. The Federal has a nice tight spread, but I have always loved the balance of pellet size and number of pellets that #1 offers. If Federal did a #1 flite control load it would be an instant hit.

[Ray Ray 3,566]

Okay, I'll play

 

http://www.remington...ense-loads.aspx

 

It's kind of hard to get a wrong 12 gauge ammo for HD. I live in an urban area and in an apartment so this is perfect for me.

[Parker 213]

The Remignton guy explained that the 870 tactical comes with a choke that really dosn't do any choking (hr had a fancy name for it but I forgot it) - it is just there so the threads are covered...He says I can buy a choke set if I want....Does this make sence? So no choking 12 guage at 30 feet

Do you have the extended Tactical Rem-Choke?

[Combat Auto 174]

Do you have the extended Tactical Rem-Choke?

Yes, it says: "extended, ported, tactical Rem-Choke"...What is the implication of this? - thanks

[Parker 213]

Yes, it says: "extended, ported, tactical Rem-Choke"...What is the implication of this? - thanks

 

That choke is "CYLINDER" in constriction. At 30' you can expect an average extreme spread of about 9". A tighter choke would reduce the size. However, you have to pattern different loads for results to determine what is best for your intended purpose. Different loads using different shot sizes, different hardness of shot, along with either unbuffered or buffered buckshot will all produce different results.

 

As an example: my handloads of #4-buck will pattern within 7" @ 21' through a fixed Imp. Cyl. choke. The core or majority of the pattern will impact within 5" with a few flyers on the fringe opening it up to 7". Your results may be different than mine with the same load.

[Metalflames 0]

I thought I read that #4 buck was the best round according to FBI ballistics testing but I could be misremebering it wrong.

[Ray Ray 3,566]

I thought I read that #4 buck was the best round according to FBI ballistics testing but I could be misremebering it wrong.

 

This is correct,

[Parker 213]

I thought I read that #4 buck was the best round according to FBI ballistics testing but I could be misremebering it wrong.

 

I loaded the #4's for coyote & fox hunting in NY. I think it would have the edge over Hevi-T which is the preferred favorite & maximum size load in NJ. (#4buck=.24 cal. vs.T steel or lead=.20 cal.)

[GRIZ 3,369]

A Improved Cylinder or Cylinder Bore gives a spread of about an inch a yard. I prefer just about any of the reduced recoil 00 loads. You need to be aware that most full power 9 pellet loads tend to "donut" past 15 yards, leaving a big hole in the pattern by 25. #1 or #4 buck tend to keep some shot in the middle of the pattern at 25 yds.

 

Proponents of birdshot overlook the danger of ricochet potential. Buckshot will tend to dig in and penetrate most objects found in the home. Birdshot will ricochet off metal objects (heater vents, appliances, etc), glass, counter tops, and a lot of other things in the house. So will buckshot but not that many of them. The most extreme case I personally knw of this is when a bad guy try to shoot the cops on the other side of a door. He let loose with a load of #6s at the...metal door. Not sure what angle he was holding the shotgun but he managed to catch enough shot in his face and upper chest to take the fight out of him.

 

If you really want to find the best you need to accumulate several different types of buckshot and pattern it in your gun a different ranges.

[hd2000fxdl 422]

A Improved Cylinder or Cylinder Bore gives a spread of about an inch a yard. I pre just about any of the reduced recoil 00 loads. You need to be aware that most full power 9 pellet loads tend to "donut" past 15 yards, leaving a big hole in the pattern by 25. #1 or #4 buck tend to keep some shot in the middle of the pattern at 25 yds.

 

The most extreme case I personally knw of this is when a bad guy try to shoot the cops on the other side of a door. He let loose with a load of #6s at the...metal door. Not sure what angle he was holding the shotgun but he managed to catch enough shot in his face and upper chest to take the fight out of him.

 

 

Ya know there was some joking and laughing after that was all over and done on the way back to the house..

[Rifleman1 32]

... Also, with the 870 stock choke (which the Remi-rep told me dosn't really do any choking),

 

I believe the straight bore choke is called a cylinder choke... if it looks like this.

 

 

Here are the ranges I use:

Remy 870 00 Buckshot 0-25 yards

Slug 26-100 yards

AR-15 5.56 100-600 yards

Remy 700 .308 300-1200 yards

[Rifleman1 32]

If you really want to find the best you need to accumulate several different types of buckshot and pattern it in your gun a different ranges.

 

+1 Definitely...

[ruger9 0]

hang on, I have something here.....

 

12 gauge, 00 buck... cylinder bore (no choke)

 

[Parker 213]

A Improved Cylinder or Cylinder Bore gives a spread of about an inch a yard. I prefer just about any of the reduced recoil 00 loads. You need to be aware that most full power 9 pellet loads tend to "donut" past 15 yards, leaving a big hole in the pattern by 25. #1 or #4 buck tend to keep some shot in the middle of the pattern at 25 yds.

 

 

When you have 9 00-buck pellets, that's very few, hence the patchy patterns and more pellets on the fringe than centered. In the standard 9-pellet 00-buck 12 ga. load, there are three layers of three pellets stacked accordingly for proper shot orientation. The stacking continues with 12 and 15 pellet loadings of the same 00-buck pellet size in 12 ga.

 

The principle behind why you stack buckshot pellets so that loads pattern densely: the greater the angle of surface contact between two pellets, the greater the tendency those pellets will travel at an angle to each other. In other words, any order given to the buckshot inside the hull will reduce the amount of random influences that may affect the pellet's straight flight. With small buckshot pellets, the greater number of pellets makes up for a loss of pattern density, larger pellets magnify "patchiness" making holes in the pattern look very bad. ALL shotshell loads perform this way though. Fringes on the pattern are caused by pellets that lose their sphere shape because of setback during firing, damage through the forcing cone, or stress from the choke. The pellets in the center that are the most rounded tend to fly the straightest.

 

As shotshell loads became more sophisticated, ammo makers introduced buffering mixtures that they would sift into the case, filling the voids between the pellets. Another method was increasing pellet hardness with a higher antimony count, or pellets were plated with copper or nickel. As demand for tight patterning loads grew, sophisticated wads like Federal's Flite Control wad were introduced.

 

For any that are interested, look for the book "Reloading for Shotgunners" or BPI's "Buckshot Loading III" on the 'net; there is a lot of info documented if you want to reload your own buckshot loads and/or just to read the science behind how some loads work better than others.

[Scrap 4]

Hornady TAP FPD 00 BUCK is in my M930SPX , 870 Tactical, and Saiga 12. It is absolutely top of the line ammo, flawless in manufacture and performance, patterns extremely well for me and has never had a single functional issue in my shotguns, although nothing has either.

 

I have some Winchester PDX-1 handy just in case, which is a 1oz slug surrounded by 3 00 Buck pellets.. I don't consider this suitable for HD because I would never fire a slug inside the house unless it was WWIII/absolutely invaded my house by a platoon of zombies. But I do keep it for emergency bear defense, if another animal bear etc. got after my dog outside ,etc.

 

short of that, basic 00 Buck will work if you have it... 00 Buck is home defense ammo IMHO, the best and the only choice. Hornady TAP FPD is the best 00 Buck for defending my house IMHO. (TAP FPD = Tactical Applications/Police - For Personal Defense).

[Scrap 4]

http://archives.gunsandammo.com/content/tap-power

 

 

I thought this was a very good thing to read especially regarding the shotgun ammo.

[High Exposure 5,664]

I go back and forth between #1 and Federal flite control 00. The Federal has a nice tight spread, but I have always loved the balance of pellet size and number of pellets that #1 offers. If Federal did a #1 flite control load it would be an instant hit.

 

Federal does make a #1B with a Flite Control Wad.

 

http://le.atk.com/ammunition/federal/buckshot/details.aspx?id=998

 

From Doc. G. K. Roberts

 

Given Brenneke USA's recent QC issues and the unfortunate unavailability of true Rotweil Brennke loads in the U.S. currently, we have been looking for alternative slug loads that are capable of adequate penetration after first defeating intermediate barriers. We shot the new Federal (PB127 DPRS) Truball Deep Penetrator 1 oz slug load @ 1350 fps (http://www.federalpremium.com/...ils/slug.aspx?id=902). It penetrated 24" of gel after first defeating an automobile windshield, with no deviation from trajectory and outstanding weight retention. The Federal Truball Deep Penetrator works as a potential Brenneke replacement. As a bonus, it is very accurate out to at least 100 yards.

 

-----------------------------

 

Based on IWBA data, Don Hacklander from San Diego Police Supply and I have been discussing the potential of a properly designed #1 buckshot LE load for many years--with Don's help and the efforts of some folks at ATK, this has now finally been brought to fruition!

 

We shot the new Federal #1 buckshot, 15 pellet, 1100 fps "Flight Control" load (LE132-1B) yesterday out of a generic 18" 870P, including patterning from 5-35 yards, as well as a bare gel shot at 7 yards. In bare gel, all 15 of the 30 caliber plated pellets penetrated in the 14-18 inch range.

 

This new Federal LE132-1B #1 buckshot load offers IDEAL terminal performance for LE and self-defense use and is the best option for those who need to use shot shells for such purposes.

 

I currently keep Hornady TAP 00B in my 870 with Vang Comp barrel and have patterned it out to 30yards. I know I can take a high percentage shot at 10 yards and in with 100% confidence. The shot stays so close together it almost looks like it was a slug. At 20 yards I still have a group under 12".

 

I have also determined that the new TAP and Flite Control loads have made the expense of the Vang Comp barrels nearly obsolete.

 

It is important to personally pattern any shotgun you plan to use for Home Defense/ Self Defense with the loads you plan to use. You need a complete and comprehensive understanding of what your chosen load will do in the weapon you have designated to the task of HD/SD.

[Tosser 61]

Another vote for Federal LE 00 Flightcontrol loads... 8 or 9 pellet.

 

That's what I use. Does very well with a cylinder bore

[Old Glock guy 1,127]

Another vote for Federal LE 00 Flightcontrol loads... 8 or 9 pellet.

 

Same here.

[Combat Auto 174]

Do you Folks run with 2 3/4" slugs or 3" slugs?

[Jon 264]

Do you Folks run with 2 3/4" slugs or 3" slugs?

 

There is no reason to use 3" slugs for HD. I've had 2 3/4" slugs go through-and-through deer at 125 yards.