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LAW AND PUBLIC SAFETY TO DISCUSS GUN CONTROL BILLS 2/13/13

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Here is the list of bills on the schedule for Wednesday, February 13, 2013:

 

 

*Assembly Law and Public Safety Meeting 10:00 AM

Committee Room 11, 4th Floor, State House Annex, Trenton, NJ

Chair: Asm. Mainor, Charles

A588 [spencer, L. Grace/Coutinho, Albert+1], Ammunition, penetrate body armor-proh.

A1116 [Fuentes, Angel/Spencer, L. Grace], Handgun sales-estab. 180 day prohibition

A1329 [Greenwald, Louis D./Quijano, Annette], Ammunition magazines-reduce to 10 rounds

A1387 [Wilson, Gilbert L./Johnson, Gordon M.+11], Weapon free zones-estab. sch., pub. fac.

A1613 [bramnick, Jon M./Johnson, Gordon M.], Ed. Security Task Force-estab.

A3510 [Johnson, Gordon M./Vainieri Huttle, Valerie], Firearms permits and id cards-concerns

A3645 [Greenwald, Louis D./Eustace, Timothy J.], Ammunition sale-face to face transaction

A3646 [Greenwald, Louis D.], Ammunition-estab. regulatory sys.

A3659 [barnes, Peter J./Johnson, Gordon M.], Weapons, cert.-destructive definition

A3666 [Cryan, Joseph/O'Donnell, Jason+1], Ammunition sale-proh. mail order

A3668 [Jasey, Mila M./McKeon, John F.+1], Assault firearm manuf-St investment proh

A3687 [stender, Linda/Fuentes, Angel], Firearm id card-disqual. Terrorist List

A3717 [Lampitt, Pamela R./Singleton, Troy], NICS-submit cert. mental health records

A3748 [O'Donnell, Jason/Mainor, Charles], Gun sales, priv.-background check req.

A3750 [Cryan, Joseph/O'Donnell, Jason], Ammunition sales-estab reglatory prog.

A3754 [Cryan, Joseph/O'Donnell, Jason], Mental health prof warning-seize firearm

A3772 [Eustace, Timothy J./Wagner, Connie], Firearm purch. id card-picture req.

A3788 [Rible, David P./Dancer, Ronald S.], Firearms records-abolish right of access

A3796 [Mainor, Charles], Firearms, unlawfully possessed-disposure

A3797 [Mainor, Charles], Firearms-concerns seized and recovered

AR143 [Quijano, Annette/Cryan, Joseph+2], Gun buyback prog.-express support

AR144 [Oliver, Sheila Y.], Mental Health Parity-concerns exemp.

Pending Introduction and Referral:

A3583 [Wilson, Gilbert L.], Creates taskforce to explore areas to improve school safety

ACR180 [Greenwald, Louis D.], Urges President and Congress of United States to enact legislation enforcing stricter firearms control measures

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The committee hearings are open to the public to accept testimony. We should be filling the room to have our voices heard.

 

The process is you show up at the Statehouse, go through security, sign in at the committee room. If you would like to testify, indicate so when you sign in. You can indicate your support or opposition when you sign in on the form.

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Giving up already? Did you attend the rally or not today? Why so defeatist? Aren't you willing to fight?

 

They're going to get something passed and restrict our rights further. That's a loss in my book. The only question we have now is how much of the damage we'll be able to fight back.

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Giving up already? Did you attend the rally or not today? Why so defeatist? Aren't you willing to fight?

 

I was there and I was happy at the showing, but at the same time I'm disappointed that there weren't more.. I've been sending out letters, emails, and phone calls just about every day for the past few weeks, and I don't intend on stopping that. At the same time, with that barrage of bills they've got coming in, it's unlikely that we'll defeat every last one. Even if we do, they'll keep introducing another twenty every week until they get something in. I hope to God I'm wrong, I really do, but just look at the amount of politicians we have stacked against us. Regardless, I don't plan on giving up. I'll stand by all of you. I just feel like crap that they can get away with lying straight to people's faces and using bs to get their way. It's not right and it certainly isn't just.

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I'll be there.

 

Anyone know if you need to limit your testimony to one bill? How much time do you get to speak? If we are limited in time should we make sure we cover all the bases?

 

Also .. I know these totalitarian "officials" don't care about about the 2ed, but does anyone with a law background know if they mail order thing runs head first into interstate commerce?

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I'll be there.

 

Anyone know if you need to limit your testimony to one bill? How much time do you get to speak? If we are limited in time should we make sure we cover all the bases?

 

Also .. I know these totalitarian "officials" don't care about about the 2ed, but does anyone with a law background know if they mail order thing runs head first into interstate commerce?

 

A group of us testified a couple of weeks ago in front of the Senate committee. There was no actual time limit placed on us, but they asked that everyone be a brief as possible. I assume if we fill the room, time will be limited given the full agenda for the committee that day.

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They're going to get something passed and restrict our rights further. That's a loss in my book. The only question we have now is how much of the damage we'll be able to fight back.

 

You are correct. There is no amount of emails or phone calls that will change anything these democrats are looking to pass. Just have to wait till I move out of this s**thole to a free state!

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You are correct. There is no amount of emails or phone calls that will change anything these democrats are looking to pass. Just have to wait till I move out of this s**thole to a free state!

 

Quit that, it is just incorrect. No amount? Really? so if a million NJ gun owners all made ONE phone call, do you think Trenton wouldn't reconsider? Hell if 10k did it it might make a difference. It is the defeatist attitude that makes sure we have no influence.

 

Yeah the moving out of state sounds good until state by state they all fall. I also have been giving some serious thought to that and you know .. I think I want to make my stand on the early front lines while there are still a lot of states and federal judges on my side to maybe make difference. You keep falling back, one day you'll find there is nowhere to fall back to.

 

Lots of people talk about how they'll take up arms when the revolution comes. But then a lot of people want to flee the state where the fight is on the political level. That doesn't make a lot of sense.

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You are correct. There is no amount of emails or phone calls that will change anything these democrats are looking to pass. Just have to wait till I move out of this s**thole to a free state!

 

Not to say you haven't done anything, but WTF man, what do you propose we do??

 

Calls letters faxes do things and ill just keep from any further comments being they wouldn't be pleasant.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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Quit that, it is just incorrect. No amount? Really? so if a million NJ gun owners all made ONE phone call, do you think Trenton wouldn't reconsider? Hell if 10k did it it might make a difference. It is the defeatist attitude that makes sure we have no influence.

 

Yeah the moving out of state sounds good until state by state they all fall. I also have been giving some serious thought to that and you know .. I think I want to make my stand on the early front lines while there are still a lot of states and federal judges on my side to maybe make difference. You keep falling back, one day you'll find there is nowhere to fall back to.

 

Lots of people talk about how they'll take up arms when the revolution comes. But then a lot of people want to flee the state where the fight is on the political level. That doesn't make a lot of sense.

 

:good: Well said Vlad!

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I don't understand how, with the sheer quantity of bills to be heard that day, they expect to have any meaningful discourse. They are just looking to rubber-stamp them and release them to the assembly floor. If enough of us show-up to testify, it may short-circuit their 'shove-them-through" process.

 

Since a number of people on this board have done the "advance work", how about a recommendation and a google map to show everyone the most advantageous parking lot to the annex. On Friday I rode with a friend and have no idea where we were, besides it was a long walk anyway. Can someone post-up?

 

Adios,

 

PIzza Bob

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I emailed my "proposed bill" commentary to the law and public safety committee members and my state legislators, along with a personal note this afternoon.

 

Here are my thoughts on the various bills being proposed:

  • A588 [spencer, L. Grace/Coutinho, Albert+1], Ammunition, penetrate body armor-proh.
    • Armor piercing ammunition is already illegal as per our current statutes. The additional definitions provided in this bill simply add broad defining characteristics to common ammunition in use today, that is NOT designed or intended to pierce body armor. The truth is that any high velocity rifle round in existence regardless of that shape or metal is capable of penetrating most any soft body armor unless it is a ceramic hard plate. This bill will simply make law abiding citizens that already own ammunition matching the broad descriptions in A588 a criminal overnight. How will this keep anyone safe?

    [*]A1116 [Fuentes, Angel/Spencer, L. Grace], Handgun sales-estab. 180 day prohibition

    • I’m not too concerned with this proposed law; though, I do not see what it is trying to accomplish in preventing gun violence. Is there really a problem in this state where people are losing handguns that often where it may be suspicious that they are trafficking in guns? It already takes many months to purchase a handgun in this state. My last two handgun purchases took 72 days, and 108 days respectively under our current laws.

    [*]A1329 [Greenwald, Louis D./Quijano, Annette], Ammunition magazines-reduce to 10 rounds

    • This bill is most disturbing. We here in NJ have been banned from owning magazines over 15 rounds in past “large capacity magazine” legislation. The logical conclusion is that the NJ legislature had forced upon us “normal capacity magazines”. Now this bill is saying that 15 rounds is no longer “normal” in the eyes of the authors, and is now a “large capacity”.
      • This is the crux of the issue. Subjective terms of capacity limits are thrown around all over the place without rhyme or reason. There are no studies or evidence that reducing magazine capacity reduces gun violence. For me, normal capacity is 30 rounds. Yet for another person normal capacity is 10, or 7, or 1.
      • This bill will do nothing to stop gun violence and do everything to YET AGAIN; make lawful gun owners criminals overnight. For decades NJ gun owners have been adhering to our flawed existing gun laws, and now that is not good enough?
      • The premise of further reducing magazine capacities “so that a criminal engaged in using a gun to kill innocents will have to reload more, and that might give the victims more time to respond and disarm the maniac” is completely flawed and preposterous. For example, the VA Tech killer used two handguns and 17 , 10 round magazines and still was able to inflict terrible atrocities.
      • There is no “safe” magazine limit. There are no "normal" or "large" capacity magazines, as proof we have this new bill claiming the previous legislation was wrong with deciding that 15 round magazines are normal capacity. The only way to prevent these atrocities is to keep the guns out of the hands of those who should not have them in the first place!
      • In addition to criminalizing thousands of law abiding gun owners in our State, I fear further magazine capacity restrictions would further hamper the ability for lawful gun owners to defend their homes. If a homeowner findes themselves defending their familiy from multiple armed assailants, having enough rounds in the handgun in many cases may be the difference between life or death. You seen in a home defense situation, the victim will only have seconds to grab hold of their home defense gun, meaning whatever ammunition that they have to defend their family must reside in that gun at that time. When the criminally insane look to commit heinous crimes against innocents using a firearm, they take the time to methodically plan every move. Reduced capacity magazines is not an issue in their plans, just something they account for. Let's focus on laws that will help stop the criminally insane from having ANY gun or ANY magazine. Better is to expand our laws to enable lawful citizens the ability to defend themselves with the best self-defense tools available, such as firearms.

    [*]A1387 [Wilson, Gilbert L./Johnson, Gordon M.+11], Weapon free zones-estab. sch., pub. fac.

    • This one is easy. Criminals do not obey “gun free zones”. This has been proven by recent terrible events. These laws only serve to ensnare law abiding folks as they are driving to or from ranges and other lawful and peaceable use of firearms because they accidentally drove within XX feet of a “gun free zone”.

    [*]A3510 [Johnson, Gordon M./Vainieri Huttle, Valerie], Firearms permits and id cards-concerns

    • Do we need mandatory training classes in order to exercise other Constitutional rights? I’m OK with this if it was for a Concealed Carry Permit.

    [*]A3645 [Greenwald, Louis D./Eustace, Timothy J.], Ammunition sale-face to face transaction

    • This bill does nothing but inconvenience lawful gun owners. What would forcing “face to face” ammunition sales accomplish in terms of reducing gun violence? This is a lame duck proposal with no other purpose then to harass and inconvenience lawful gun owners. It serves to discourage lawful and peaceful gun usage by forcing gun owners to pay higher prices and sometimes drive for long distances in order to purchase their ammunition.

    [*]A3646 [Greenwald, Louis D.], Ammunition-estab. regulatory sys.

    • This bill is just like A3645, another form of harassing lawful gun owners. What will showing a picture ID when purchasing ammunition accomplish in terms of reducing gun violence? This bill is simply a back-door attempt at discouraging and making firearm ownership in NJ a burden on the lawful citizen.

    [*]A3659 [barnes, Peter J./Johnson, Gordon M.], Weapons, cert.-destructive definition

    • This bill is a solution to a problem that does not exist. .50 caliber firearms have been around for centuries, and include even modern handguns and rifles. These types of weapons are seldom involved in crimes. It is another bill designed to further hamper and discourage gun ownership in NJ under color of law.

    [*]A3666 [Cryan, Joseph/O'Donnell, Jason+1], Ammunition sale-proh. mail order

    • Just like A3645 and A3646, this bill will do nothing but harass lawful gun owners. Forcing lawful gun owners to purchase ammunition at NJ dealers will do nothing but make them pay more money and inconvenience them as in many live very far from a NJ gun dealers (as there are already so few). These bills will do nothing to stop criminals and maniacs, and do everything to impede on lawful gun ownership and usage.

    [*]A3668 [Jasey, Mila M./McKeon, John F.+1], Assault firearm manuf-St investment proh

    • I’m not sure where to start with this one. The term “Assault firearms” is a made up term anyway, just like lately what I have been hearing of ammunition being called “Assault ammunition”. The government calls FULLY AUTOMATIC “real assault weapons” a new word… “Personal Defense Weapons” or PDW’s. It seems if we want to ban something we can just put the word “Assault” in front of it. In any case, this bill is simply a form of mass anti-gun activism being carried out at a State governmental level. Very shameful.

    [*]A3687 [stender, Linda/Fuentes, Angel], Firearm id card-disqual. Terrorist List

    • Sure , I’m OK with this provided there is a process for people to dispute their name being on this list in the event it is an error.

    [*]A3717 [Lampitt, Pamela R./Singleton, Troy ], NICS-submit cert. mental health records

    • I’m fine with this, it is a good idea and will help prevent guns from falling into the wrong hands.

    [*]A3748 [O'Donnell, Jason/Mainor, Charles], Gun sales, priv.-background check req.

    • In NJ, private sales between individuals already require that each person checks for their FID card, and for handguns it requires the acquisition of a handgun purchase permit for the purchaser, and for the seller to complete the form and submit it to the NJSP. The fact that the purchaser already has a FID card and/or Pistol Purchase Permit signifies they have already passed NJ state background checks in order to obtain those documents. In NJ, the local police department is supposed to revoke and remove the FID from a person who is no longer eligible to have it as well.

    [*]A3750 [Cryan, Joseph/O'Donnell, Jason], Ammunition sales-estab reglatory prog.

    • Just like the other ammunition bills above, this proposed bill will do nothing to stop gun violence and do everything to inconvenience, hinder, and harass lawful gun owners in NJ. What will write down ammunition sales in a ledger accomplish? It is simply another convoluted law designed to make being a firearm owner in NJ very difficult under color of law.

    [*]A3754 [Cryan, Joseph/O'Donnell, Jason], Mental health prof warning-seize firearm

    • I do believe that legislation such as this will be helpful in reducing gun violence, while not hindering or harassing lawful gun owners. I would just like to see more effort put into the rules and procedures used when adjudicating someone unfit for gun ownership. I would also like to see more details of the “hearing” that the proposed bill speaks to, such so that the gun owner who has had their guns seized has a fair chance to defend themselves. This is especially needed to prevent abuse of the law. I am also fearful that mental health practitioners will simply blanket all of their patients under this definition in order to protect themselves from liability. This would surely create a mess, and would serve to discourage lawful gun owners for reaching out to mental health professionals for fear of losing their guns.

    [*]A3772 [Eustace, Timothy J./Wagner, Connie], Firearm purch. id card-picture req.

    • I’m OK with the picture being on the card, which is a no brainer. I am not OK with the renewal requirement. It is a very large burden to run through the process for the initial card. Fingerprints, appointments, time off from work, etc. Why not institute a renewal via mail or online? It will still accomplish the same purpose, which is to have the NICS check completed every 5 years for existing FID holders?

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Since a number of people on this board have done the "advance work", how about a recommendation and a google map to show everyone the most advantageous parking lot to the annex. On Friday I rode with a friend and have no idea where we were, besides it was a long walk anyway. Can someone post-up?

 

Agreed. The this is always the hardest for a person such as myself who is unfamiliar with the area and procedures. A link through Google Maps and a brief description of the logistics would be incredibly helpful.

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I don't understand how, with the sheer quantity of bills to be heard that day, they expect to have any meaningful discourse. They are just looking to rubber-stamp them and release them to the assembly floor. If enough of us show-up to testify, it may short-circuit their 'shove-them-through" process.

 

Since a number of people on this board have done the "advance work", how about a recommendation and a google map to show everyone the most advantageous parking lot to the annex. On Friday I rode with a friend and have no idea where we were, besides it was a long walk anyway. Can someone post-up?

 

Adios,

 

PIzza Bob

 

I was there for the last hearing and my GPS put me right in front of the annex. You will see a wide drive going down into the parking garage and a State Police car parked at the entrance....doesnt look welcoming but they were pleasant, just wanted to know why I was there and what room I was going to....you get a parking tag and park.....it was free at the time.....this might change if there are a lot of us....but I saw a lot of empty spaces

 

Plan to be there early enough to sign in and indicate if you want to speak...there is a cafeteria in the basement you can go to wait for hearings to start.

I plan to go to be a body there.....not a good speaker...

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TEN BUSES SCHEDULED TO ROLL INTO TRENTON

Departure locations to be determined shortly

A JOINT ANJRPC / NJ2AS EVENT WILL BE HELD THIS WEDNESDAY FEBRUARY 13, 2013! TEN (10) BUSES FROM ALL OVER NJ WILL BE PROVIDED TO TAKE YOU TO TRENTON! THERE WILL BE NO CHARGE FOR THE BUS TRANSPORTATION. ALTHOUGH DONATIONS WILL BE MOST GRACIOUSLY ACCEPTED

 

OK, I think we have had enough rest. My sincerest THANKS to the NJ2AS team for their tireless dedication to the cause of FREEDOM and their work to make yesterday's FREEDOM RALLY such a HUGE SUCCESS! My SINCEREST THANKS to all those speakers that came from all over NJ and even from out of state to address the ENORMOUS CROWD!

 

My EQUALLY sincere THANKS to all of *YOU* who participated in the rain and the cold and yet STILL showed the spirit and FIRE it will take to STOP THIS CONSTANT EROSION OF OUR RIGHTS as FREE individuals living in the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

 

WHICH BRINGS ME TO THE POINT OF THIS POST!!!!

 

Most of you have already heard that the Assembly is planning a FULL SCALE ASSAULT upon what remains of the right of law abiding citizens to keep and bear arms. They have chosen to employ ASSAULT WEAPONS such as HIGH CAPACITY PENS with EXTENSIBLE CARTRIDGES, which they intend to use to HURL caustic HOLLOW BILLS at us with a RAPID FIRE DISREGARD for the damage they cause to our lives, our loved ones *AND* our LIBERTY.

 

We are *ANXIOUS* to respond with an OVERWHELMING show of RESISTANCE to their cowardly sneak attack and show them that not only are we here *NOW*, but we will be OUT IN FORCE BETWEEN NOW AND NOVEMBER to make certain that they are not only DEFEATED, but that they are *HUMILIATED* in the next election!!!

 

NOW IS THE TIME to show them that we will come, barrage after barrage, wave after wave, until both their WILLS and their WAR CHESTS are entirely DEPLETED. After that, we will ENSURE that their next job (if any) will be in the PRIVATE sector.

 

THERE WILL BE TEN (10) BUSES leaving from all over New Jersey. Those of you who asked me HOW CAN WE MAKE UP FOR MISSING THE RALLY - Well, here's how. BE ON ONE OF THOSE BUSES! Even if you were there for the Rally, PLEASE TRY YOUR BEST to *DO IT AGAIN*! OF COURSE it is a *LOT* I keep asking from you. Sometimes it seem like it just gets to be more and more. THAT'S CORRECT! It *IS* and I will *CONTINUE* to ask more and more, but no more than I am willing to do myself.

More soon,

 

Frank Jack Fiamingo

Fellow Human Being

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TEN BUSES SCHEDULED TO ROLL INTO TRENTON

Departure locations to be determined shortly

 

A JOINT ANJRPC / NJ2AS EVENT WILL BE HELD THIS WEDNESDAY FEBRUARY 13, 2013! TEN (10) BUSES FROM ALL OVER NJ WILL BE PROVIDED TO TAKE YOU TO TRENTON! THERE WILL BE NO CHARGE FOR THE BUS TRANSPORTATION. ALTHOUGH DONATIONS WILL BE MOST GRACIOUSLY ACCEPTED

 

OK, I think we have had enough rest. My sincerest THANKS to the NJ2AS team for their tireless dedication to the cause of FREEDOM and their work to make yesterday's FREEDOM RALLY such a HUGE SUCCESS! My SINCEREST THANKS to all those speakers that came from all over NJ and even from out of state to address the ENORMOUS CROWD!

 

My EQUALLY sincere THANKS to all of *YOU* who participated in the rain and the cold and yet STILL showed the spirit and FIRE it will take to STOP THIS CONSTANT EROSION OF OUR RIGHTS as FREE individuals living in the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

 

WHICH BRINGS ME TO THE POINT OF THIS POST!!!!

 

Most of you have already heard that the Assembly is planning a FULL SCALE ASSAULT upon what remains of the right of law abiding citizens to keep and bear arms. They have chosen to employ ASSAULT WEAPONS such as HIGH CAPACITY PENS with EXTENSIBLE CARTRIDGES, which they intend to use to HURL caustic HOLLOW BILLS at us with a RAPID FIRE DISREGARD for the damage they cause to our lives, our loved ones *AND* our LIBERTY.

 

We are *ANXIOUS* to respond with an OVERWHELMING show of RESISTANCE to their cowardly sneak attack and show them that not only are we here *NOW*, but we will be OUT IN FORCE BETWEEN NOW AND NOVEMBER to make certain that they are not only DEFEATED, but that they are *HUMILIATED* in the next election!!!

 

NOW IS THE TIME to show them that we will come, barrage after barrage, wave after wave, until both their WILLS and their WAR CHESTS are entirely DEPLETED. After that, we will ENSURE that their next job (if any) will be in the PRIVATE sector.

 

THERE WILL BE TEN (10) BUSES leaving from all over New Jersey. Those of you who asked me HOW CAN WE MAKE UP FOR MISSING THE RALLY - Well, here's how. BE ON ONE OF THOSE BUSES! Even if you were there for the Rally, PLEASE TRY YOUR BEST to *DO IT AGAIN*! OF COURSE it is a *LOT* I keep asking from you. Sometimes it seem like it just gets to be more and more. THAT'S CORRECT! It *IS* and I will *CONTINUE* to ask more and more, but no more than I am willing to do myself.

More soon,

 

Frank Jack Fiamingo

Fellow Human Being

 

Any link to the bus departure points?

 

Edit: Nevermind, I'm really dumb. Somehow skipped over the "Departure locations TBD" part.

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