Portable/emergency battery system (inverters, chargers, batteries, etc)

[liquidskin 3]

Gents,

 

I've been thinking about investing a few bucks into a little battery system that I could take camping and use at my apartment in power outages. At first I was just thinking of getting an inverter and hooking up to my car battery when need some electricity on the road. Did some more reading and seems deep cycle batteries such as marine batteries are better suited for these uses. I don't want to just go buying things and see what works and doesn't. I'd be interested in charging the battery via AC in my apt, as well as with my cars alternator and maybe even solar. Not sure how feasible this is. If anyone runs a setup like this and cares to chime in, that'd be helpful. Thanks

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[TulsaJohn 1]

I have a large marine battery, in a battery box. I installed two xlr jacks for two water pumps that I use while camping. I also have a power inverter 800/1600 watts peak. It will run my fridge for about 8 hours. I don't really use it for that. But I was able to power up fluorescent lights and 60" plasma with DVD player for 3 days during hurricane sandy. Was very nice to have since I live in an apartment as well.

[liquidskin 3]

I have a large marine battery, in a battery box. I installed two xlr jacks for two water pumps that I use while camping. I also have a power inverter 800/1600 watts peak. It will run my fridge for about 8 hours. I don't really use it for that. But I was able to power up fluorescent lights and 60" plasma with DVD player for 3 days during hurricane sandy. Was very nice to have since I live in an apartment as well.

How do you charge your battery?

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[TulsaJohn 1]

I charge it when it is like 20% left, or around 10.7 volts. Usually twice a year. I use a battery charger that is 12v 6amp. Takes about 18 hours to charge up. I don't charge it indoors.

[One_crazy_dude 1]

I installed one in my car (1500/3000 max) with a dura last battery. The one for car audio( has more cranking amps ). During sandy I lost power for 7 days. I ran an electrical cord to the fridge and another to a power strip that spidered out on smaller electrical cords that powered lamps, a 60" tv Verizon Vios box, wifi box and a power strip out the window so my neighbors can charge there devices through the day.

 

It was for me better than having a generator (I live in apartments also) because my car was off and about every 2 hours or so I would here the low Voltage alarm. Go start the car for 10 minutes and so on. That week I used maybe 1/4 of an 11 gallon gas tank. I have another van and would see people in line with gas cans every day for the generators and I filled my car once before the storm.

 

If you decide to install a converter make sure you use good thick wire. I'm using 4 gauge from parts express ( really good not to expensive) don't forget to fuse by the battery and make the grounds as short as possible . If you wanna go deep cycle for the battery the better, but will cost more.

 

Here's a few pictures.

 

 

 

[mikeyjones 88]

A trickle charger would probably be the best option for charging indoors. I do that with my bike batteries during winter to maintain them.

 

Sent from my TF300T using Tapatalk HD

[brucin 923]

I have this power inverter:

 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002RWKIL0/ref=oh_details_o03_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

I used 1 large deep cycle marine battery during the 14 days without power after Sandy. This rig ran my pellet stove for 4 hours and charged my mobile phone tablet and laptop. A stable sine wave is key for sensitive electronics.

 

The battery took about 2 hours to recharge with the charger on reguler charge.

 

To charge it during the outage i plugged my charger into the generator and I switch the charger to trickle when I have power to keep the battery topped off. This year I've added a second battery.

[liquidskin 3]

Some good info here.

 

One_crazy_dude, I like your setup. Have you gone through car batteries more frequently using this?

 

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

[Malsua 1,422]

Go to Walmart or Amazon and buy a 700-1000 watt inverter for $65 to $100

Look around for sales on Batteries or go to a car parts store or boat store and pick up a Deep Cycle battery for $100-$150

Buy a trickle charger that floats once charged for $20

 

When the power goes out, plug your stuff in and run it.   It's nice to not sit in the dark.

[Howard 538]

I installed one in my car (1500/3000 max) with a dura last battery. The one for car audio( has more cranking amps ). During sandy I lost power for 7 days. I ran an electrical cord to the fridge and another to a power strip that spidered out on smaller electrical cords that powered lamps, a 60" tv Verizon Vios box, wifi box and a power strip out the window so my neighbors can charge there devices through the day.

 

It was for me better than having a generator (I live in apartments also) because my car was off and about every 2 hours or so I would here the low Voltage alarm. Go start the car for 10 minutes and so on. That week I used maybe 1/4 of an 11 gallon gas tank. I have another van and would see people in line with gas cans every day for the generators and I filled my car once before the storm.

 

If you decide to install a converter make sure you use good thick wire. I'm using 4 gauge from parts express ( really good not to expensive) don't forget to fuse by the battery and make the grounds as short as possible . If you wanna go deep cycle for the battery the better, but will cost more.

 

Here's a few pictures.

 

 

 

 

What is the big red thing that looks like a huge capacitor?  What does it do for the system?

[Malsua 1,422]

What is the big red thing that looks like a huge capacitor?  What does it do for the system?

 

Since it doesn't appear to be strapped down and the terminals aren't shielded, it's mostly likely an incendiary device whenever the vehicle hits a bump the terminals ground out to the sheet metal.

[blizzzarddemon 0]

The capacitor is for his amp that can be seen in the second picture ( this is my guess)

 

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

 

 

[ryan_j 0]

I have a 1000 watt xantrex SW1000 sine wave inverter in the van. The van came with a built in inverter but it is only 120w and barely adequate. With this one I can run my kid's nebulizer or even a microwave oven if we decide to bring our own food on a road trip. 

[kman 56]

If you are handy rig up a small side shaft engine off a snowblower or from harbor freight tools to a car alternator with a belt and pulley, you can use wood to mount everything, and then you can charge your storage battery during an extended power outage.  Instead of wasting gas running a generator continuously, you can just run your charger for a couple of hours once or twice a day to charge the battery or batteries back up.  Much easier and quieter and burns much less gas.

[Tack Tickle 0]

It is a capacitor so the main car battery/alternator doesn't get depleted when the RPMs are too low to run the alternator properly. You wouldn't believe the power a good car audio setup can drain!!!

 

What is the big red thing that looks like a huge capacitor?  What does it do for the system?

[Barms 98]

When guys says "I can recharge a marine battery in two hours". Are they referring to recharging it via the inverter from their car? Or plugged in back home when the power is on?

 

Back after Irene I was investigating a portable generator + invertor + marine battery to run a sump pump for a week. I would like to rotate back and forth between pump on generator and pump on battery and simultaneously recharge the battery when generator is running. Someone said it would take a VERY long time to recharge a dead marine battery via a generator using an invertor.

[One_crazy_dude 1]

Some good info here.

 

One_crazy_dude, I like your setup. Have you gone through car batteries more frequently using this?

 

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

As far as batteries go, I've got the car in 2004 and changes the battery right away because of the stereo system I installed. That one went bad in 2010 and the second battery( bought same one ) is still going strong.

 

The red Capacitor as others stated is sort of a line Conditioner. With the long cable from the battery to the back when the amp draws current to Certain voltage it releases energy very quickly and keeps the voltage up. Then when the amp draw is less it charges up.

 

I broke the brackets years ago and use 2 sided foam tape to keep it wedged between the tire, the fiberglass floor that goes on top and the metal on the car. That cap is not going anywhere

[ryan_j 0]

It is a capacitor so the main car battery/alternator doesn't get depleted when the RPMs are too low to run the alternator properly. You wouldn't believe the power a good car audio setup can drain!!!

 

No, the capacitor is supposed to act as a buffer and supply instantaneous current for peak demand. They work somewhat but are a gimmick though. You'd be much better off upgrading the wiring to your amp, alternator and battery because that is the real problem. 

[W2MC 1,699]

Go to Walmart or Amazon and buy a 700-1000 watt inverter for $65 to $100

Look around for sales on Batteries or go to a car parts store or boat store and pick up a Deep Cycle battery for $100-$150

Buy a trickle charger that floats once charged for $20

 

When the power goes out, plug your stuff in and run it.   It's nice to not sit in the dark.

 

Another source for car batteries - Junkyards.  The one near me will sell you a working one pulled from a wreck for $20 (plus a $5 'core' charge). 

 

Yes, its not at good as a "deep cycle"...But it's only $20. 

 

Many car batteries nowadays have stickers that show the month/year it was made, so you can be sure to get a relatively 'fresh' one.

[Tack Tickle 0]

You said exactly what I did in different words. You go through this forum playing semantics with everyone. This isn't an argument forum.

 

It is absolutely not a gimmick. You say, "no" it's a buffer.... Why would there be a buffer??? So you don't mess up your battery and alternator which charges the battery.

 

The problem is not the wiring. You should always use heavy gauge wiring when installing car audio systems with amps.

 

No, the capacitor is supposed to act as a buffer and supply instantaneous current for peak demand. They work somewhat but are a gimmick though. You'd be much better off upgrading the wiring to your amp, alternator and battery because that is the real problem. 

[brucin 923]

When guys says "I can recharge a marine battery in two hours". Are they referring to recharging it via the inverter from their car? Or plugged in back home when the power is on?

 

Back after Irene I was investigating a portable generator + invertor + marine battery to run a sump pump for a week. I would like to rotate back and forth between pump on generator and pump on battery and simultaneously recharge the battery when generator is running. Someone said it would take a VERY long time to recharge a dead marine battery via a generator using an invertor.

 I am referring to running my generator to power the battery charger.

[Barms 98]

I am referring to running my generator to power the battery charger.

Right. Which then in turn is recharging the deep marine ? And that only takes two hours ?

[carguy3j 0]

It is a capacitor so the main car battery/alternator doesn't get depleted when the RPMs are too low to run the alternator properly. You wouldn't believe the power a good car audio setup can drain!!!

Not really. Its not so much about engine rpm, as it is about momentary spikes in power draw exceeding the charging capacity of the alternator AND wiring. See below:

No, the capacitor is supposed to act as a buffer and supply instantaneous current for peak demand. They work somewhat but are a gimmick though. You'd be much better off upgrading the wiring to your amp, alternator and battery because that is the real problem. 

This is a much more accurate description/characterization of how capacitors work, particularly in this type of installation. I don' t think they are a "gimmick". I think they do do what they are intended to do, when sized/installed correctly. They ARE  a bit of a "crutch"/"band-aid" in some cases, while being the ONLY solution left in other cases. I do agree that high current draw application absolutely do require  upgraded heavier gauge wiring, as well as the highest rated alternator/batteries you can get. Doing this first just might eliminate the need for a capacitor to begin with, or it may not, if your peak momentary current draw is still beyond the capabilities of the best alternator available.

You said exactly what I did in different words. You go through this forum playing semantics with everyone. This isn't an argument forum.

 

It is absolutely not a gimmick. You say, "no" it's a buffer.... Why would there be a buffer??? So you don't mess up your battery and alternator which charges the battery.

 

The problem is not the wiring. You should always use heavy gauge wiring when installing car audio systems with amps.

"Semantics" are not trivial. Right is right, and wrong is wrong. Saying something in a manner that correctly characterizes/ describes something; particularly something technical in nature, is important. It is not "picking on you", nor is it being a "dick", or a "douche",etc....

 

Similarly, so called "grammar Nazis" , should be thanked for being a bastion of civility and intelligence; rather then being mocked and "shouted" down. There IS a difference between "there", "their", and "they're"; as well "your" and "you're", etc.... They all mean different things. They convey DIFFERENT information, and it is not always possible to decipher someone's true "message", based solely on the surrounding context, when they use the wrong "version" of a word or phrase.  It amazes, and dismays, me to see just how aggressively defensive so many people will be of their mistakes. It is as though people are proud of their ignorance or something.......

[brucin 923]

Right. Which then in turn is recharging the deep marine ? And that only takes two hours ?

Yes. Gets it back up to 90% but I don't let it drop below 40%.

[Aj10523 0]

I know that most talk is about making your own system but I have a small goal zero recharger I take on my boat and in my jeep just for electronics but they have some big rechargeable systems that are pretty nice. http://www.goalzero.com/ just another idea.

[PeteF 1,044]

Just a note to people that run electronics off inverters. Beware the voltage genetated by non-true sine inverters is a stepped approximation of a sine wave. Electronics with circuit boards do not like this.

[tom catman 0]

going past 12.2 volts will kill the life of your battery bank fast.look here to access all the info you need.http://www.wind-sun.com/ForumVB/forumdisplay.php?20-Off-Grid-Solar-amp-Battery-Systems.i run my house on 6 deep cycle group 27 marine batteries with 3000 watt inverter.for emergencies its good.charge bank during day for 4 hours run all night with no generator noise.

[Vlad G 345]

Just a note to people that run electronics off inverters. Beware the voltage genetated by non-true sine inverters is a stepped approximation of a sine wave. Electronics with circuit boards do not like this.

This is only somewhat true. It is true in general terms but a hell if a lot electronics have power supplies that make this moot. The issues with non pure sine inverters and non inverter generators are generally overblown. That is not to say it can't be an issue, it just isn't a issue for as many things as people say it is. For example most RVs use modified sine inverters and their TV and stereo doesn't free.

[ryan_j 0]

You said exactly what I did in different words. You go through this forum playing semantics with everyone. This isn't an argument forum.

 

It is absolutely not a gimmick. You say, "no" it's a buffer.... Why would there be a buffer??? So you don't mess up your battery and alternator which charges the battery.

 

The problem is not the wiring. You should always use heavy gauge wiring when installing car audio systems with amps.

 

The problem is the wiring between your alternator and your battery (not the amp wiring). Wiring of too small a gauge causes too big of a voltage drop.

 

It won't "mess up your alternator" because the battery is there to pick up the slack where the alternator cannot supply. 

 

Additionally though, some modern cars have different output for low and high RPM to save fuel to meet CAFE standards. Honda in particular does this. 

 

The average passenger car's alternator delivers about 80-110 amps, but that is over 2000 RPM. At idle speeds or normal cruising speed your alternator isn't putting out everything. The battery is supposed to pick up the slack in that case. 

 

A vehicle with high electrical demand such as a police car or ambulance doesn't use these capacitors. They simply have thicker wiring and high output alternators. A car with a "police package" will have this from the factory. 

 

The reason there is a "buffer" is because the alternator can't keep up with instantaneous demand due to being undersized or having insufficiently thick wiring.

[ryan_j 0]

This is only somewhat true. It is true in general terms but a hell if a lot electronics have power supplies that make this moot. The issues with non pure sine inverters and non inverter generators are generally overblown. That is not to say it can't be an issue, it just isn't a issue for as many things as people say it is. For example most RVs use modified sine inverters and their TV and stereo doesn't free.

 

"Modified sine wave" (actually modified square wave) inverters definitely don't work as well as true sine wave inverters. If you're using something like a microwave oven you will have less power output at the magnetron. Wall warts tend to run hotter as well, but most power supplies like laptops are designed to take the punishment due to the fact that they are designed to accept different AC power input for different countries.

 

Motor loads tend to be noisier and some tend to have trouble starting. Fluorescent lamps may flicker a bit more. Purely resistive loads like heaters are just fine of course.

 

I did have once noticeable difference with a MSW vs TSW where a CRT TV would be missing one of its scan lines on the MSW but not the TSW.

 

Some audio equipment may not like it and you can hear the sharp "buzz."

 

Many RVers have gone to TSW because they are cheap now. You can get a 1kw inverter for about 200 bucks.