OK, I admit, equipment matters

[Vini 0]

Today at Cherry Ridge 300 yards range I came across a guy with very expensive (IMO) set up. 

It was bolt action 308 Desert Tactical bullpup (4K+) with Kahles (3K+) scope. 

The guy let me try to shoot 3 rounds. Wow, that was easy. Scope is fantastic, especially comparing to my $25 scope from Amazon. 

I've got 2.5 inches group. I'm sure I could do better if I would shoot another 20 rounds and adjust rifle to my size (the guy is considerably bigger). 

I consider myself an OK shooter, but 2.5 inch group at 300 yards first time I touched the rifle - glory goes to the set up. 

I don't think I would push myself to buy so expensive stuff, but I have to admit: high quality equipment makes the difference, especially optics.

 

It's hard to admit, but the guy's rifle shoots better than my Waffen Werks AK-74 or converted Saiga 223. 

[mipafox 438]

OK, I admit, equipment matters

 

Well, not sure it matches your discussion but with respect to the thread title

 

Mindset>Tactics>Skills>Equipment

 

Provided you have all four

[JimmyAGR 54]

Equipment always matters. I always hope to be the short end of the stick when it comes to my gear. I hope that if anything fails it would be me. Then I only have myself to blame.

[Vini 0]

 Mindset>Tactics>Skills>Equipment Provided you have all four

 

I'm not sure tactics matter at the range... but mindset and skill go without saying. 

 

The point is - it was so effortless. 

You know, usually one has to put some work to squeeze a good group at longer range. 

In this case it was just child's play. Effortless. Hey, you wanna try my rifle? Sure. Position is not convenient, stock too long, have to twist the neck to see through the scope... Pew, reload, pew, reload, pew. Wow. 

One of my best groups at that distance. 

I understand it was bolt action, 30 cal and price of the rifle is 3x vs my both "AKs" combined. 

Still impressive. 

 

Got me thinking: what kind of accuracy I can squeeze out of my rifles if I use good optics and a bipod instead of ammo can... 

[Shane45 807]

4k+ is just the chassis system(About $4600). You still need the caliber conversion, about another $1400(non magnum). Add a bipod and some accessories and your at around 6k. Add Kahles level glass and you have a $9k+ package. In the precision rifle game equipment matters. In particuler the glass makes a significant difference. Cheap scopes just dont cut it! But keep in mind that at 300 and under is at the bottom rung of the capabilities of that system.

[Old School 611]

I'm not sure tactics matter at the range... but mindset and skill go without saying. 

 

The point is - it was so effortless. 

You know, usually one has to put some work to squeeze a good group at longer range. 

In this case it was just child's play. Effortless. Hey, you wanna try my rifle? Sure. Position is not convenient, stock too long, have to twist the neck to see through the scope... Pew, reload, pew, reload, pew. Wow. 

One of my best groups at that distance. 

I understand it was bolt action, 30 cal and price of the rifle is 3x vs my both "AKs" combined. 

Still impressive. 

 

Got me thinking: what kind of accuracy I can squeeze out of my rifles if I use good optics and a bipod instead of ammo can... 

 

PM me make arrangements and I'll meet you at CR 300 and you can shoot my 2k AR...   You can't buy your way to success but equipment does help.  You obviously have a decent level of skill. Come and see what you can do with a budget rig.

[ChrisJM981 924]

Frank do you have glass on that rig, or is it irons?

[Old School 611]

Frank do you have glass on that rig, or is it irons?

 

Chris - If I could do that with irons I'd be in the Olympics.  Anyway Loonhead shot that with my rifle.

            The rifle has a 6X18 Sightron on it.

            BTW - This rifle may be going up for sale and I may be upgrading.

[vladtepes 1,060]

PM me make arrangements and I'll meet you at CR 300 and you can shoot my 2k AR...   You can't buy your way to success but equipment does help.  You obviously have a decent level of skill. Come and see what you can do with a budget rig.

 

 

300 and 100 are pretty different IMO...

 

I have a 308 AR that makes some pretty tight groups... but I am just starting to learn the gun at 300.... 

[RecessedFilter 222]

There's no way you can compare a $10k bolt action to a $600 Ak lol.

 

But once you start putting in the money towards a gun and it's accessories, it's amazing how much it's worth it (as you could see shooting this guys rifle). I have a friend with a Remington 700 and has done a few grand in 'goodies' as well as nice glass, and it shoots very nice groupings at different yardages.

[Old School 611]

300 and 100 are pretty different IMO...

 

I have a 308 AR that makes some pretty tight groups... but I am just starting to learn the gun at 300.... 

Vlad, I love shooting 300 and the biggest issue I have at 300 is reading wind.  Your 308 will be a little better than my 69gr bullets in the wind for sure.

I test my loads at 100 before I go to 300 to minimize the amount of time the wind effects the bullet.

And correct there is a 200yd difference between 100 and 300.  Much longer time the cross wind has to screw you up.

[vladtepes 1,060]

Vlad, I love shooting 300 and the biggest issue I have at 300 is reading wind.  Your 308 will be a little better than my 69gr bullets in the wind for sure.

I test my loads at 100 before I go to 300 to minimize the amount of time the wind effects the bullet.

And correct there is a 200yd difference between 100 and 300.  Much longer time the cross wind has to screw you up.

 

I have to change some things around on that gun because I was shooting a 165 gr Hornady bullet but I am not coming across those.. 

[Holeshot 3]

Not a precision rig by any stretch but IMHO this is still VERY impressive!

 

Shooting the M4 at 1000 yards- http://looserounds.com/2013/08/05/what-will-the-m4-do-at-1000-yards/

[Old School 611]

I have to change some things around on that gun because I was shooting a 165 gr Hornady bullet but I am not coming across those.. 

 

As you know, ballistic coefficient and sectional density are your friends.  If you are willing to give up velocity you may think about working with 180gr BTHP if you can find them. Believe it or not the best ballistic coefficients are not found in 30 cal.

[Sixtytwo327 14]

 

Got me thinking: what kind of accuracy I can squeeze out of my rifles if I use good optics and a bipod instead of ammo can... 

 

It's true... if you use a decent bipod ($80-$100) and spend money on quality glass ($300-$500 range from a quality optic manufacturer, for starters), your results will improve significantly. Past that, it can be a game of diminishing returns without experience. An example using some arbitrary numbers, there is a world of difference between a $500 and $1,500 setup, but much less between that same $1,500 setup and a $10K setup - unless you have a whole lot of practice, by which point, ammo bills will far outweigh the cost of your setup.

 

Good luck with it - have fun shopping.

[mipafox 438]

 

I'm not sure tactics matter at the range... but mindset and skill go without saying. 

 

 

 

You skipped the first part when quoting me:

 

Well, not sure it matches your discussion but with respect to the thread title

Now lots of people are telling me how you need the best equipment at a range. Lots of thoughtful responses. /sarcasm.

[Parker 213]

Google a fellow named Harry Pope, his rifles, his developments, and the incredible groups he shot offhand with peep sights, all the way out to 1,000 yards, all more than a hundred years ago. It's still the Indian, not the arrow.

[Holeshot 3]

It's still the Indian, not the arrow.

 

No doubt about that.

 

You can apply that to other things in life as well.

[Shane45 807]

poor equipment can offset skill. I would take a quality rifle with qaulity irons over a crappy rifle with a scope that dont track and looks like a glass of milk any day

[Krdshrk 3,878]

Frank - I think I saw that rifle being assembled a couple years ago... you had just gotten the upper from JSE