Can I keep my handgun in NJ being from PA?

[Vagabond 0]

Hello - I have a NJ gun law question.  I tried searching this topic in this forum but did not yield anything related...

 

I have two places of residence - in PA and NJ.  My official permanent residence is in Lehigh County, PA.  I have a PA driver's license.  I pay state and local taxes in PA.  I vote in PA.

 

I live in NJ for 3 days per week (for work) so I also have an apartment in Jersey City, NJ.  The lease is under my name.  

 

My S&W M&P40 Pro Series (4.25" barrel) was legally purchased in a PA gun shop.  I use 15-round mags.  I am the first and only owner of the M&P.  I do not CC this handgun in either state.  I use it for HD and at the range.

 

Can I legally have this handgun in my NJ apartment, loaded?

 

When transporting between states from home-to-home in a vehicle, is it sufficient to have it in a single locked gun box, unloaded, in the trunk, with ammo?

 

Can I have hollow-points?

 

Is it my legal right to possess a firearm in a state where I am technically a non-resident but can affirm I have a valid residence?

 

I'm doing my research, I believe I am within my legal right but would like to know how I can verify this.  A part of me wants to go to the JCPD and ask them directly but I'm not sure if they welcome these sorts of inquiries.

 

Thank you!

 

 

 

 

[PK90 3,573]

Yes

Yes

Yes

Yes

[GRIZ 3,369]

You can keep your handgun as long as its your residence in NJ . Home to home transport would be okay. You can't buy pistol ammo in NJ without a NJFID. To bring hollowpoints legally you would have to leave your PA residence, stop in PA to buy the ammo, then proceed to your NJ residence. This would be place of purchase to home exemption for hollowpoints.

 

Don't go to JCPD or any other for that matter. You don't know who you'll get.

[Vagabond 0]

Awesome, THANK YOU guys.  I just really want to make sure I'm being legit with this...

 

Also, I re-read the transportation statute - looks like I need to have my firearm and ammo in separate locked containers.  Interesting...

 

Would it make sense to do the Voluntary Form of Firearms Registration at all?  Why would I want to register the firearm?

 

Is it worth getting a NJ Firearms Purchaser ID Card for anything?

[Blacksmythe 71]

Your good to go. DO NOT GO TO THE JCPD. I plan to be in a similar situation myself in 6 months.

[Blacksmythe 71]

DO NOT REGISTER! It is none of their business and it is voluntary.

[GRIZ 3,369]

NJFID would allow you to buy long guns and ammo in NJ.  Would also allow you to carry unloaded long gun in your trunk any time.

[Howard 538]

I believe the answer is yes to all the questions with the possible exception of the hollow points.  There are specific exemptions for hollow point and I don't believe you can transport them in the state within the exemptions coming from out of state, but I could be off on this.  As far as transport in NJ you don't need a locked case, just secured in a case when locked in the trunk separate from ammo also locked in the trunk.  Do not register them period.

[Vagabond 0]

Thanks everyone for the informative responses.

 

I have one more question as it relates to transporting from home-to-home.  I understand the firearm and ammo needs to be in separate containers, but out of an abundance of caution I have to ask -  Can the ammo be in the magazines?

[ryan_j 0]

I believe the answer is yes to all the questions with the possible exception of the hollow points.  There are specific exemptions for hollow point and I don't believe you can transport them in the state within the exemptions coming from out of state, but I could be off on this.  As far as transport in NJ you don't need a locked case, just secured in a case when locked in the trunk separate from ammo also locked in the trunk.  Do not register them period.

 

You are correct.

 

There is NO exemption for hollow points moving between residences. Brian Aitken served jail time for this. 

 

Place of purchase to home, home to range and back but THAT'S IT. You can also use it for hunting but I don't think you're allowed  to hunt with a handgun in NJ. 

[ryan_j 0]

Thanks everyone for the informative responses.

 

I have one more question as it relates to transporting from home-to-home.  I understand the firearm and ammo needs to be in separate containers, but out of an abundance of caution I have to ask -  Can the ammo be in the magazines?

 

NJ doesn't define what unloaded is. Evan Nappen has cautioned that they *could* construe the magazine to be part of the firearm and jam you up. But I've never heard of anyone being jammed up for that. 

 

Empty the mag if you wish, but there's no law that specifically says you have to. I transport mine with loaded mags but the magazine is not inserted and there's no round in the chamber. 

 

There is NO requirement that the ammo and gun be in separate containers. That's just a best practice.

[Michael2013 56]

Thanks everyone for the informative responses.

 

I have one more question as it relates to transporting from home-to-home.  I understand the firearm and ammo needs to be in separate containers, but out of an abundance of caution I have to ask -  Can the ammo be in the magazines?

Here is exactly what I was told when I took training earlier this year:

Magazine is a part of the firearm, hence loaded mag is illegal in NJ.  Moreover, it is illegal to transport mags in the same container with ammo.  The safe way - mags and firearms in one container, ammo in another.

[ClangClang 14]

Here is exactly what I was told when I took training earlier this year:

Magazine is a part of the firearm, hence loaded mag is illegal in NJ. 

 

Which training are you referring to?

[Michael2013 56]

Which training are you referring to?

"Handgun First Steps" at GFH, Woodland Park.

[GRIZ 3,369]

I think some state (CA?) had a ruling saying a loaded magazine is a "loaded weapon". Nappen has regurgitated this and many are repeating this as law.

 

A loaded magazine has not been ruled a "loaded firearm" in NJ.

[halbautomatisch 60]

Here is exactly what I was told when I took training earlier this year:

Magazine is a part of the firearm, hence loaded mag is illegal in NJ.This has never been established one way or another.  Moreover, it is illegal to transport mags in the same container with ammo. This is absolutely false, I would think Anthony and crew would know better than to say this..........  The safe way - mags and firearms in one container, ammo in another. As others have said, this is a best practice but not law.

[halbautomatisch 60]

Awesome, THANK YOU guys.  I just really want to make sure I'm being legit with this...

 

Also, I re-read the transportation statute - looks like I need to have my firearm and ammo in separate locked containers.  Interesting... This is the NJSP using the FOPA standard, which is more strict than NJ law, HG unloaded in a plastic shopping bag tied shut would be legal, ammo can be in the the same bag just not loaded into the pistol. Best practice is to use a gun case and keep the ammo separate, and keep both as inaccessible as possible.

 

Would it make sense to do the Voluntary Form of Firearms Registration at all?  Why would I want to register the firearm? Don't bother, you have nothing to gain by doing so.

 

Is it worth getting a NJ Firearms Purchaser ID Card for anything? HG ammo purchases in NJ, long gun purchases in NJ, less strict long gun possession rules. You could even get some handgun purchase permits while you applied since you are a dual NJ/PA resident under ATF rules, but  would you really want to bother doing that? If any of this will help you out or if you think you are going to end up in NJ full time at some point get an FPID card, otherwise it's just one more hassle for you to deal with in your life.

[siderman 1,138]

Here is exactly what I was told when I took training earlier this year:

Magazine is a part of the firearm, hence loaded mag is illegal in NJ.  Moreover, it is illegal to transport mags in the same container with ammo.  The safe way - mags and firearms in one container, ammo in another.

Did the tell you hp's are illegal in NJ too? just wondering. (they're not)

 

 

 

I think some state (CA?) had a ruling saying a loaded magazine is a "loaded weapon". Nappen has regurgitated this and many are repeating this as law.

 

A loaded magazine has not been ruled a "loaded firearm" in NJ.

 

Here's the very interesting NY version:

 

"Loaded firearm" means any firearm loaded with ammunition or any

firearm which is possessed by one who, at the same time, possesses a

quantity of ammunition which may be used to discharge such firearm.

 

 

[PK90 3,573]

 

 

[maintenanceguy 510]

The law itself is pretty easy to understand.  I suggest reading it for yourself.  I don't trust my freedom to internet advice.   Google the following:

 

NJSA 2C:39-5  - this section tells you what you can't possess.  Which is just about everything.  don't miss section c that says you can possess long guns with a FID card as long as you're following the rules on how to transport below.

 

NJAC 2C:39-6 - this section lists the exemptions to the section above, that is: the few situations when you can possess a firearm.  The first couple of pages list special people that can carry - mostly law enforcement.

then comes sections e and f that tell when the rest of us can possess or transport.  It includes "premises or other land owned or possessed by him"

finally section g tells you how you must transport within NJ.

[Michael2013 56]

Did the tell you hp's are illegal in NJ too? just wondering. (they're not)

 

In fact, he did talk about HPs.  He said that "it is only illegal to commit crime with HP".  That I can interpret that you better don't run red light when you go to a range with HP...

As for the loaded mags, law or no law, I'm not planning to be a "test case".

[ryan_j 0]

In fact, he did talk about HPs.  He said that "it is only illegal to commit crime with HP". 

That's wrong too. That's not what the law says.

 

You can possess hollow points at home, or on a piece of property you own, at the range or at a place of purchase.

 

You can transport them directly to /from range or the place of purchase.

 

You CANNOT transport them between homes (State v Aitken). 

 

You CANNOT keep them at a place of business unless you own/possess the land/building. 

[Howard 538]

That's wrong too. That's not what the law says.

 

You can possess hollow points at home, or on a piece of property you own, at the range or at a place of purchase.

 

You can transport them directly to /from range or the place of purchase.

 

You CANNOT transport them between homes (State v Aitken). 

 

You CANNOT keep them at a place of business unless you own/possess the land/building. 

 

I would sure like our idiotic legislators to explain the logic of this one.  I think the intent is that they want to minimize these things moving around.  But what this law as interpreted does is allow a person to drive 100 miles from a home to a range and then 98 miles from the range to the other home that is only two miles from the first home.  How stupid does that get????

[45Doll 5,881]

I have an ancillary question on the OP's original.

 

Can someone who is a PA resident legally transport a handgun to a NJ residence they don't own and keep it there until they go home to PA? (e.g. friend, family)

 

Would having a PA LCF make any difference?

 

If I was a PA resident with a PA LCF, was carrying my pistol, and was driving to visit a friend or family member in NJ, I'd know that before I cross the NJ border I'd have to unload the pistol and put it in the trunk etc. And I know this would be a valid mode of transport to pass through NJ to say NH per the Federal interstate transportation law.

 

But what if the end point of my journey is a NJ residence? Would I have to leave my pistol home?

 

If there are any PA residents familiar with this scenario I'd like to hear from them.

[Lalo 13]

So the person teaching the "Handgun First Steps" at GFH, Woodland Park told you:

1. Magazine is a part of the firearm, hence loaded mag is illegal in NJ and
2. "It is only illegal to commit crime with HP" ammunition and nothing about transporting HP's?

Are you sure this is what was conveyed or is this what you interpreted? This spread of mis-information is concerning.

[mipafox 438]

 

I have an ancillary question on the OP's original.

 

Can someone who is a PA resident legally transport a handgun to a NJ residence they don't own and keep it there until they go home to PA? (e.g. friend, family)

 

Would having a PA LCF make any difference?

 

If I was a PA resident with a PA LCF, was carrying my pistol, and was driving to visit a friend or family member in NJ, I'd know that before I cross the NJ border I'd have to unload the pistol and put it in the trunk etc. And I know this would be a valid mode of transport to pass through NJ to say NH per the Federal interstate transportation law.

 

But what if the end point of my journey is a NJ residence? Would I have to leave my pistol home?

 

If there are any PA residents familiar with this scenario I'd like to hear from them.

 

 

Five to ten years in jail.

[GRIZ 3,369]

IIRC the hollowpoint issue of home to home was not an issue in the Aitken trial as the judge didn't inform the jury of the home to home firearm transport exemption.  That was one of the issues of his appeal.  Not that this changes anything as far as the home to home transport is not one of the exemptions granted by the state.

 

The Aitken case is only an example of his stupidity, as has been discussed at great lenght in the past.

[45Doll 5,881]

That's what I thought. Despite the claims by Democrats in the NJ Legislature, there actually is NO common sense in NJ.

 

The two year clock is ticking. Time to start working on house plans for PA. The stepdaughter can visit us there... with her pistol!

[Michael2013 56]

So the person teaching the "Handgun First Steps" at GFH, Woodland Park told you:

1. Magazine is a part of the firearm, hence loaded mag is illegal in NJ and
2. "It is only illegal to commit crime with HP" ammunition and nothing about transporting HP's?

Are you sure this is what was conveyed or is this what you interpreted? This spread of mis-information is concerning.

My biggest distortion here is the name of the course - it's called "NRA First Step Pistol".  The rest is as good as I can recall.  I don't guarantee the exact wording, but this was what essentially said.  I remember these points exactly because I was quite surprised too.

Sorry, I didn't have intention to hijack this thread.

[ogfarmer 138]

unfortunately I was told the same thing about loaded mags at a NRA Basic Pistol Class @ another location last year. I just chuckled and shook my head.