Story: Gonzaga students face possible expulsion for using gun to ward off intruder

[CMJeepster 2,781]

Not that you'll hear this on mainstream media, but here's yet another case of gun-free zones being a target for crime.  Apparently the need for self defense doesn't trump the fact that one of the victims is licensed for CCW.  I acknowledge the fact that this is private property and the school has every right to make their own rules, but they should have at least provided better security in some form to prevent this from happening.

 

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http://myfoxspokane.com/news/local-news/story/gonzaga-students-face-possible-expulsion-after-pulling-gun-home-intruder

 

Gonzaga students face possible expulsion for using gun to ward off intruder

Published November 10, 2013





A pair of college students in Washington state are facing disciplinary action, including possible expulsion, for using a handgun to prevent an intruder from entering their university-owned apartment.

According to MyFoxSpokane.com, a discipline board at Gonzaga University in Spokane voted Friday to move forward with sanctions against Erik Fagan and Dan McIntosh. The men will learn what their future at the school will hold at a later date.

Fagan and McIntosh were at the off-campus apartment on the night of October 24 when they heard a knock at the door. Fagan answered the door and found himself face-to-face with John Taylor, a convicted felon wanted on an outstanding warrant by Washington State's Department of Corrections. Fagan said Taylor demanded money, and became frustrated when the student refused.
 

When Taylor attempted to barge into the apartment, Fagan called to McIntosh, who brandished his pistol, the site reported. At that, Taylor left the scene, but was later arrested by Spokane Police after the students filed a report.

McIntosh has a concealed weapons permit for the pistol. However, Gonzaga students may not possess handguns on campus or university-owned property, according to the student handbook. In a statement to KAYU-TV, a university spokesman said the policy was longstanding and had been put in place to reduce the number of threats to the campus.
 

Gonzaga is a private, four-year university affiliated with the Jesuits.

[Banka871 0]

I saw this on ar15.com over the weekend. Very, very sad if these guys (victims of a crime) get expelled over a BS rule, in an off-campus apt.

 

My 2 cents...don't live in university housing if you want a right to defend yourself. Their property, their rules.

[gunguy1960 2]

University students are taught to always be in condition white unless they find themselves around relatives during the holidays, when they go to condition orange. Students at Rutgers are always leaving doors and windows open, as well as doors unlocked, evil shows up and the real world education sadly occurs. They are taught that evil wears a suit and works on Wall Street. The kids who protected themselves are guilty of creating an unfair advantage over a poor,defenseless, outcast of society, they were guilty of not being willing to share their wealth.

[tony357 386]

Time to switch universitys and find one that is 2A supporter..

 

Their is something interesting it would be fun to start a thread on 2A supporting universities.. 

 

Big question is are their any ?

[brucin 923]

a university spokesman said the policy was longstanding and had been put in place to reduce the number of threats to the campus.

 

Apparently this rule is working well      NOT!!!!!!!

[10X 3,319]

The University hasn't acted yet, it appears.   Since they have a written policy in place, they have to do something.   A good result might be a lot of chest beating and hand wringing on their part, followed by giving the student a stern talking to...and then quietly letting the matter drop.

 

A great result would be to change their written policy, but don't hold your breath.

[HBecwithFn7 296]

The University hasn't acted yet, it appears.   Since they have a written policy in place, they have to do something.   A good result might be a lot of chest beating and hand wringing on their part, followed by giving the student a stern talking to...and then quietly letting the matter drop.

 

A great result would be to change their written policy, but don't hold your breath.

Apparently, the two students are now on "probation" for the remainder of their time at the school, and the university is "re-evaluating" the policy, per this News Article.  

 

I did not realize that this Univ. was associated with the "Gonzaga" HS in Washington DC, but both are Jesuit affiliated.

[raz-0 1,259]

TRanslation:

 

The terms of their policy are broken because they seem to apply to only on-campus activity and not off campus housing. This was probably deliberate by legal because getting into the business of dictating every iota of people's behavior wherever they might be opens you up to all sorts of liability. 

 

This means they would have to declare the housing unit they lived in as on campus. Which would mean they are responsible for the welfare of students there and it increases their Clery compliance radius further into a crap neighborhood. 

 

That leaves lease terms, which were probably vague. Although it is within a landlords purview to restrict the possession of firearms (or any items really) by renters, there has been precedence set that doing so increases teh landlords responsibilities in terms of providing for residential security. 

 

The school gave them a BS probation because they have to appear to do something for appearing to violate the code of conduct if they want that mechanism of enforcing their contract with students to stand. They are paying the lawyers to see if there is anything they could or should do otherwise. The answer is probably along the lines of "nothing we would commit to in writing," lawyers being what they are. 

[ogfarmer 138]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/11/13/school-authorities-return-guns-to-2-gonzaga-university-students-who-had-been-on/

 

 

School authorities return guns to 2 Gonzaga University students who had been on probation

SPOKANE, Wash. –  Two Gonzaga University students who were placed on probation after using a pistol to scare off an intruder now have their weapons back.

KHQ-TV says Erik Fagan and Dan McIntosh retrieved their firearms Tuesday night.

Campus security confiscated McIntosh's pistol and Fagan's shotgun after the students reported that a man had come to their apartment door Oct. 24 demanding money and trying to force his way inside. The homeless man left when McIntosh displayed his pistol.

The students were placed on probation for violating the university's weapons policy. Gonzaga students are not allowed to have guns in their homes if they live on campus or in a university-owned apartment.

Fagan and McIntosh were told they could retrieve their weapons as long they didn't store it at any property owned or operated by the university.

[NYMetsFan86 9]

even if he didn't have a ccw that is there dwelling so, well within constitutional right anyway

[leahcim 680]

So if this happenned in NJ do you think they would ever get their weapons returned?

[HBecwithFn7 296]

even if he didn't have a ccw that is there dwelling so, well within constitutional right anyway

 

Problem is, it's their "rented" dwelling. Does the "tennant" have the same right as the landlord (the Univ.)?  I would hope so, but the Univ. might have different ideas about that, since they're the ones that would be sued most likely if their tennant shot/injured/killed someone on their property. And they (the Univ.) would be the "bigger target" for the MSM media bash over the incident.

[JSF01 13]

I would love to see these two guys be kicked out of the school, since this would make a perfect case to bring up that college students are being denied their Second Amendment rights. Can you imagine if the college had denied those students other rights. Suppose if a college (or land lord in general) said you could not practice religion in the dorms/apartments, or that students living in the dorms could not vote. There would be a law suite filed so fast the ink on the paper the college wrote that on would still be wet. In this case there is noting really negative connected to it. They had firearms in there place and nothing bad happened with them. They than used the firearm in a 100% justifiable way, that even the police congratulated them on the act. It happened off campus so they cant claim "there are the campus police there to protect them so they don't need a gun". It is also a bit easier to filter out some of the anti's hysterical emotional BS for when it comes "guns on campus". The only way I could think that would have given even better odds was if this was a case where the college made it so students had to stay in the college dorms.