Is it legal for me to do this with a handgun in NJ?

[Howard 538]

I'll play internet lawyer. In my amateur opinion:

 

You are transporting "between his dwelling or place of business and place where such firearms are repaired, for the purpose of repair." (NJS 2C:39-6.e) and the UPS hub is allowed because your "travel shall include only such deviations as are reasonably necessary under the circumstances." (NJS 2C:39-6.g)

 

The UPS hub is reasonably necessary under the circumstances to get your gun to the manufacturer which is the place where firearms are repaired.

Impressive, did you stay at a Holiday Inn Express too?

[Lalo 13]

When I had to ship my pistol back to Sig, they sent me a pre-paid shipping label, told me to place the pistol in its factory case, case in the box and drive it over to the nearest hub. On the way back I was given the option to pick it up from the hub which I did.

[maintenanceguy 510]

I'll play internet lawyer.   In my amateur opinion:

 

You are transporting "between his dwelling or place of business and place where such firearms are repaired, for the purpose of repair." (NJS 2C:39-6.e) and the UPS hub is allowed because your "travel shall include only such deviations as are reasonably necessary under the circumstances." (NJS 2C:39-6.g)

 

The UPS hub is reasonably necessary under the circumstances to get your gun to the manufacturer which is the place where firearms are repaired.

 

 

Impressive, did you stay at a Holiday Inn Express too?

 

Thanks, no.  I forgot to add one thing:   Don't stop to pee, that's a felony.

[ryan_j 0]

I shipped my Springfield XDS for the recall via FedEx. They gave me a label. 

 

Drove it straight to the FedEx hub in the trade zone in Budd Lake. 

 

I think the theory about reasonable deviations is correct. Then again who knows. NJ gun laws are so vague and arbitrary. 

[johnoutdoors 10]

I drive a  UPS truck.  If you are given a return shipping label by the manufacturer, you can pack it (best is in a hard case ie plastic box from manufacturer or pelican), label it, and hand it to your driver.  You MUST notify us verbally. We treat them as high value packages and they go into a locked cage to decrease the chances for sticky fingers.  If you are paying for the shipment, you must bring it to a customer counter at one of our buildings, unless you have a scheduled pickup at your house or place of business.  In either of those cases, you must still notify the driver verbally.  Howard: My route is in Randolph, and yes I know the husky house too.  If you need more info, PM me and I will answer any Qs, or send Sue over.  I'm the big red head wearing all brown.  If you see me give a honk or a wave.

[diamondd817 828]

http://www.rbgc.org/publications/ups.htm

Good info. Thanks

[Burns 16]

I just did this yesterday, took my S&W to the Fed-Ex hub. All I had to do per the note from S&W was notify the shipper that there was a firearm in the box. Firearm was in a sealed (taped box) in the trunk of my car.

[diamondd817 828]

Just so you guys are aware. If you go to your FFL, they can ship it out ground USPS. It is usually cheaper to ship it out using your FFL, paying the FFL fee and USPS shipping, rather than overnighting UPS or FEDEX.

 

And less scary.

[Howard 538]

I just did this yesterday, took my S&W to the Fed-Ex hub. All I had to do per the note from S&W was notify the shipper that there was a firearm in the box. Firearm was in a sealed (taped box) in the trunk of my car.

Just because you did it does not mean it is legal to do it.  What you describe is perfectly legal in free states, and perfectly legal in NJ if you are a LEO or one of those rare CCW holders, it may or may not be legal for an average person - it all depends on if it falls under one of the exemptions.

[Howard 538]

Just so you guys are aware. If you go to your FFL, they can ship it out ground USPS. It is usually cheaper to ship it out using your FFL, paying the FFL fee and USPS shipping, rather than overnighting UPS or FEDEX.

 

And less scary.

I went to my FFL with and they said this was a no go!  The problem is their UPS account has their address hard coded into it.  If the gun were to come back to them then they would have to enter into their books and I would have to use a permit to get it back.  

[diamondd817 828]

I went to my FFL with and they said this was a no go!  The problem is their UPS account has their address hard coded into it.  If the gun were to come back to them then they would have to enter into their books and I would have to use a permit to get it back.

Really? I think they are mistaken on that.

[DaveR 42]

Print two same labels and put it on two sides. Prevents employee theft.

Having previously worked in UPS...

 

Firearms were handled in the same way as high value items.

 

These items are locked up on receiving, they are given to loss prevention personnel, they are bagged so that the contents can not be seen a new label is applied to the outside of the bag, bags were secured with a lock or seal that would have to be cut at the destination. The destination hub is notified of the package in transit, the package is controlled the entire way. Theft would be quite difficult. You would always know who was in possession of the package and the person transporting it does not know what is inside.

 

My thought on why you can't do this at a UPS store is that they are not UPS employees and can not institute these controls.

 

At least this is how it was when I worked there. If we knew what it was it was handled accordingly, if you 'snuck' it through, loss is possible.

[PK90 3,573]

I doubt that all firearms are locked up. I suspect that there are hundreds of firearms going through just one shipping outlet per day. Insuring for more than $1000 gets you special treatment. USPS also offers special handling using Registered Mail.

 

Sent from an undisclosed location.

 

 

[DaveR 42]

Just the handguns were locked up. This was to prevent someone from over labeling the package and redirecting the package prior to loss control taking possession of the package. UPS employees went through metal detectors leaving the building so walking out with anything would be difficult.

 

Special handling was on items of $5k or greater including handguns of any value.

 

Things probably changed a bit since I left in 1999, every package is now tracked, but I pretty sure certain items are still given the special handling.

[Contrvlr 17]

I went to my FFL with and they said this was a no go!  The problem is their UPS account has their address hard coded into it.  If the gun were to come back to them then they would have to enter into their books and I would have to use a permit to get it back.

Only if the frame ( serial number ) was replaced

[leadunderpressure 52]

I went to my FFL with and they said this was a no go! The problem is their UPS account has their address hard coded into it. If the gun were to come back to them then they would have to enter into their books and I would have to use a permit to get it back.

Tell your FFL to enter it in from you into their repair book not their FFL inventory. Gun goes in from you, out for repair to manufacturer. Back from manufacturer logged back into repair book and then back to you as repaired.

 

Legal and no additional transfer required.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[PK90 3,573]

Tell your FFL to enter it in from you into their repair book not their FFL inventory. Gun goes in from you, out for repair to manufacturer. Back from manufacturer logged back into repair book and then back to you as repaired.

 

Legal and no additional transfer required.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

+1

[Sledgecrowbar 0]

Hey, this is my first post but before I go introduce myself, I just got an autoloading shotgun back from the manufacturer where it got warranty work done.  Of course, first they sent me a shipping label so I didn't have to choose the carrier but I've been to the FedEx on Industrial Avenue off Route 35 in the past.  The shipping label did not state what was being shipped but it included very good instructions stating that I had to put half of the identifying tag on the box (the other half got tied to the trigger guard).  I think this was just so they could save a headache as it was shipped back in the same box.

 

I brought my specific instructions that said I had to state the contents of the package, so I could just show the instructions without saying it out loud and scaring anyone.  As I was not the only customer in the store, this worked pretty well, but the woman still had to ask me if it was disassembled, functional, or loaded.  It was disassembled purely to fit in the box, actually, but I told her it was actually broken to the point of nonfunctional, hence why it was going in for warranty work, as well as being disassembled and not including any ammo.  This was a bit of a fib as the safety was what was nonfunctional, but I hoped it would relax any possible anti-gun people behind me who heard the word "ammo".  I know some folks like to preach the Word of Guns to disbelievers but at that moment I really just wanted to go get a sandwich.

 

All in all, packaging was by far the most difficult process, and driving to and from a distant second.  This is not to be taken as a green light, though, as it's entirely possible that handguns are a special case.  I would say, at the very least, if you're confident you can ship a handgun, do so in a sturdy metal case that has a substantial key or combination lock (not one of those thin-looped luggage locks that's meant to thread through a pair of zipper pull eyes).  If you're sending it in for repair, you don't have the option of sending only part of it so as to make it non-functional as it will definitely have to be function-tested with all parts assembled, and no, they will not just temporarily fit a spare barrel/slide/etc. to test your gun.

 

Also, double-package your case in cardboard or even a standardized shipping box so it's not recognizable as a gun case.  This is the best advice I have.  My gun came in a nice cardboard box with logos on it, so as it had all the spacers to fit the gun snugly without scratching it, I put the gun in it and made a box around it with a bigger box folded to size around it and plenty of packing tape.  You can learn how to do this by buying crap on eBay, sellers are genuises of penny-pinching on packaging without sacrificing protection.  No alliteration intended.

 

When your gun comes back, it will require an adult signature upon delivery.  Either contact the carrier to arrange to pick it up at the hub or take the day off, because they deliver between the crack of dawn and bedtime.

 

ETA: I missed the second page of replies, it looks like handguns are the same on your end, they just have greater security on the carrier's side of things.

Edited May 8, 2014 by Sledgecrowbar

[Howard 538]

Sledgecrowbar (I like your handle, guess you are a vascular surgeon )  Thanks for the reply and welcome to the forum.  Shipping is not really the issue, although you have provided some good information on that.  Shipping is covered by Federal Regs and carrier rules.  The real issue is the transportation of the gun to the shipping point.  For a long gun in NJ as long as you have an FID it is a non-issue.  The question really was about handguns, as they are totally illegal in NJ except by specific exemptions.  My question really was is the transport to a non-exempt place like a shipping depot covered.  Some have interpreted it to be as they are claiming it is an adjunct to the repair facility.  That may or may not be true and you might end up having to tell it to a judge depending on the opinion of an officer that happened to stop you for something and somehow found your package.

 

As for locked box and dis-assembly.  Kimber explicitly told me not to put it in a locked box (they might not find the key) and they wanted the gun fully assembled so they could see it that way and that I should not clean it first.

[Silence Dogood 468]

Legal, so long as you identify it at the shipping hub as a firearm and it goes overnight as required by UPS and FedEx

[kman 56]

Bring it to the gunsmith and pay the gunsmith to ship it out and receive it back. Easier no stress and no wondering. Doesnt cost much more either. Everything else is stress and aggravation in this state.

 

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

 

 

[Smokin .50 1,907]

So is it mailed or shipped yet?  Or are we all turnin' into Pussys?

[Candyman87 10]

I'm going through exactly the same dilemma right now...

 

What I've been told by Walther is that it should be shipped overnight in the plastic case it came in.

 

What I've been told by my FFL is that if it went through them, they I would need to pay for shipping, and when it came back new NICS fees.

 

What I've been told from FedEx is that I could have a pickup scheduled, or drop off at a FedEx hub, and would have to overnight it (yay corporate discounts!) and should be boxed before arriving at the shipping location, and the package should contain no ammo. I asked about markings and they said none required by FedEx, but maybe by state laws.

 

What I've been told by State Police is that it's fine to transport as long as its securely locked up in the trunk of my car, out of reach, and without ammo.

 

Needless to say, NJ doesn't make this easy. I've got the thing in the case (extra cardboard around the foam to ensure a snug fit so nothing rattles around in shipping) and in a box, which is then in another box. I'll be taking to FedEx next week so it can only be in the system for one day. If I ship today, it'll be at FedEx until Monday when Walther finally opens after the weekend.

[ryan_j 0]

I'm going through exactly the same dilemma right now...

 

What I've been told by Walther is that it should be shipped overnight in the plastic case it came in.

 

What I've been told by my FFL is that if it went through them, they I would need to pay for shipping, and when it came back new NICS fees.

 

What I've been told from FedEx is that I could have a pickup scheduled, or drop off at a FedEx hub, and would have to overnight it (yay corporate discounts!) and should be boxed before arriving at the shipping location, and the package should contain no ammo. I asked about markings and they said none required by FedEx, but maybe by state laws.

 

What I've been told by State Police is that it's fine to transport as long as its securely locked up in the trunk of my car, out of reach, and without ammo.

 

Needless to say, NJ doesn't make this easy. I've got the thing in the case (extra cardboard around the foam to ensure a snug fit so nothing rattles around in shipping) and in a box, which is then in another box. I'll be taking to FedEx next week so it can only be in the system for one day. If I ship today, it'll be at FedEx until Monday when Walther finally opens after the weekend.

 

Don't overthink it. Just unload it, put it in the case, pack it securely in a box and carry it to FedEx customer counter (not Kinkos, or an authorized shipper. Go directly to FedEx) to ship.

 

I did the exact same thing with my XDS. Even chuckled as I passed the "no guns" sign at the entrance. 

[PK90 3,573]

It'll cost you $50+ to do it yourself. Pick a different dealer and have them do it for less.

[Burns 16]

Don't overthink it. Just unload it, put it in the case, pack it securely in a box and carry it to FedEx customer counter (not Kinkos, or an authorized shipper. Go directly to FedEx) to ship.

 

I did the exact same thing with my XDS. Even chuckled as I passed the "no guns" sign at the entrance.

This is what I did with my S&W earlier this month. I had no problems just had to notify the shipper it was a firearm.

 

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[raz-0 1,259]

Very interesting. I had not given this much thought. Just curious why a UPS hub is OK, but not a UPS store? Is there some legal distinction between them, or is it just more arbitrary NJ BS?

It's not nj. Ups is a common carrier, and turning over a gun to them is exempted from all the ffl transfer stuff even though they are affecting an interstate transfer. Ups stores are independent franchisees, and are not common carriers.

[ryan_j 0]

Really? I think they are mistaken on that.

Yeah it seems odd because at worst you are carrying it for gunsmithing which doesn't require a new PPP.

[jermz1987 243]

I had to ship a gun back for repair, just took it to a UPS hub and they took it. No problems at all and the gun was shipped back to my home.

[Old Dog 19]

No! Sorry, just a reflex response. What was the question?