szebrows 0 Posted March 2, 2015 If someone had guns legal in PA but not in NJ, could they bring them into NJ if going to a NJ range (with the exception of "high capacity" magazines)? Also (unrelated), if their permanent residence is out of state, but they have a residence in NJ as well, does the NJ residence count as a residence (if they have a NJ FID card)? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
szebrows 0 Posted March 2, 2015 If going to a NJ range with a gun illegal in NJ, there can be no additional stops including the NJ residence other than the range (and presumably for gas), right? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PK90 3,570 Posted March 2, 2015 Huh? You can't possess a NJ illegal firearm in NJ. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
szebrows 0 Posted March 2, 2015 So, which is it? Is it legal or illegal for an out of state resident to bring a gun that is illegal in New Jersey but legal in their state to a shooting range in NJ then back to their state? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WP22 1,558 Posted March 2, 2015 If someone had guns legal in PA but not in NJ, could they bring them into NJ if going to a NJ range (with the exception of "high capacity" magazines)? Also (unrelated), if their permanent residence is out of state, but they have a residence in NJ as well, does the NJ residence count as a residence (if they have a NJ FID card)? What do you mean by the bold part in your op? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ogfarmer 138 Posted March 2, 2015 no you cannot bring a gun that is illegal in NJ into NJ, no collapsible stocks, bayo luggs, flash hiders, guns on banned list etc... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
szebrows 0 Posted March 2, 2015 What do you mean by the bold part in your op? For example, someone is a PA resident and has guns legal in PA that wants to shoot them at a NJ range. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Smokin .50 1,907 Posted March 2, 2015 For example, someone is a PA resident and has guns legal in PA that wants to shoot them at a NJ range. Are you clear on this yet? NOT legal in NJ means leave it in PA. Legal in NJ means bring it and use it in a match (as an example) and then return back to PA with it. Got it? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
szebrows 0 Posted March 2, 2015 Are you clear on this yet? NOT legal in NJ means leave it in PA. Legal in NJ means bring it and use it in a match (as an example) and then return back to PA with it. Got it? I had a few people tell me it was legal (including a NJ range officer/gun seller) and a few tell me it was illegal, so I'll just go with illegal since the police will probably have conflicting viewpoints as well. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GRIZ 3,369 Posted March 2, 2015 I had a few people tell me it was legal (including a NJ range officer/gun seller) and a few tell me it was illegal, so I'll just go with illegal since the police will probably have conflicting viewpoints as well. No conflicting viewpoints here. If the gun is not legal in NJ it does make a difference who owns it. It is illegal in NJ. The only way a gun illegal in NJ could be in NJ is if it is being transported by a non-resident under FOPA through NJ. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mipafox 438 Posted March 2, 2015 I had a few people tell me it was legal (including a NJ range officer/gun seller) and a few tell me it was illegal, so I'll just go with illegal since the police will probably have conflicting viewpoints as well. The police will have no conflicting viewpoints. If you have a NJ illegal gun the police will put you in jail. Where you live means nothing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1LtCAP 4,264 Posted March 2, 2015 If someone had guns legal in PA but not in NJ, could they bring them into NJ if going to a NJ range (with the exception of "high capacity" magazines)? Also (unrelated), if their permanent residence is out of state, but they have a residence in NJ as well, does the NJ residence count as a residence (if they have a NJ FID card)? Yes. Yes. Huh? You can't possess a NJ illegal firearm in NJ. so which is it? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
W2MC 1,699 Posted March 2, 2015 No conflicting viewpoints here. If the gun is not legal in NJ it does make a difference who owns it. It is illegal in NJ. The only way a gun illegal in NJ could be in NJ is if it is being transported by a non-resident under FOPA through NJ. ^^^^^ WHY is this so difficult to understand? If it's illegal in NJ; it's illegal in NJ. If you're caught with it at a range, you go to jail under NJ Law. The only "loophole" is the FOPA (Federal Law), which trumps NJ State Law, based upon the interstate commerce clause in the US Constitution. Now, if you're volunteering to be a "Test Case", and want to make the case that the Second Amendment should also trump state law, by all means, have at it...... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Krdshrk 3,877 Posted March 2, 2015 If someone had guns legal in PA but not in NJ, could they bring them into NJ if going to a NJ range (with the exception of "high capacity" magazines)?NO Your destination is a range in NJ so your guns will need to follow NJ Laws. The only exception for this is if you're passing through NJ to a destination where the gun is legal, then FOPA applies. Also (unrelated), if their permanent residence is out of state, but they have a residence in NJ as well, does the NJ residence count as a residence (if they have a NJ FID card)? Yes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PK90 3,570 Posted March 2, 2015 If someone had guns legal in PA but not in NJ, could they bring them into NJ if going to a NJ range (with the exception of "high capacity" magazines)? Also (unrelated), if their permanent residence is out of state, but they have a residence in NJ as well, does the NJ residence count as a residence (if they have a NJ FID card)? I misinterpreted the bold part to mean the person was not in NJ, as in an out of state resident. In fact, I interpreted it correctly. You stated it wrongly. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
raz-0 1,259 Posted March 2, 2015 SImple example. 1) You own a g19 and want to shoot a steel match at a NJ range. You can bring it in in stock form as it has a 15 round capacity. However, you need to travel directly to and from the range or other exempted location. 2) You own a g17 and want to shoot a steel match in nj at a ragne. You can bring the gun, but you cannot bring the 17 round mags. You'll need to dig up 10 rounders to make use of it. Travel limitations would remain the same. 3) You want to bring an ar pattern gun with a vortex flash hider, collapsible stock and bayonet lug still intact to a NJ 3 gun match, and even have 15 round mags. No, you cannot transport that rifle into NJ if you are not passing through. Since NJ would be an end point, you are subjected to the NJ firearms laws, and that would be a banned rifle under the NJ assault weapon ban. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1LtCAP 4,264 Posted March 2, 2015 ok. dumb question. say the op was bringing it to the range, which was also an ffl, to sell it to them? or does it have to be shipped to them? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PK90 3,570 Posted March 2, 2015 ok. dumb question. say the op was bringing it to the range, which was also an ffl, to sell it to them? or does it have to be shipped to them? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
W2MC 1,699 Posted March 2, 2015 ok. dumb question. say the op was bringing it to the range, which was also an ffl, to sell it to them? or does it have to be shipped to them? We beat him senseless for prolonging this thread............. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RichP 115 Posted March 2, 2015 ok. dumb question. say the op was bringing it to the range, which was also an ffl, to sell it to them? or does it have to be shipped to them? Most, if not all, FFLs will not accept any NJ illegal guns/parts from someone walking in the door. If you're lucky, they'll tell you to leave immediately. Unlucky, and they'll report you, lock the doors and wait for the police to show up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
raz-0 1,259 Posted March 2, 2015 SImple example. 1) You own a g19 and want to shoot a steel match at a NJ range. You can bring it in in stock form as it has a 15 round capacity. However, you need to travel directly to and from the range or other exempted location. 2) You own a g17 and want to shoot a steel match in nj at a ragne. You can bring the gun, but you cannot bring the 17 round mags. You'll need to dig up 10 rounders to make use of it. Travel limitations would remain the same. 3) You want to bring an ar pattern gun with a vortex flash hider, collapsible stock and bayonet lug still intact to a NJ 3 gun match, and even have 15 round mags. No, you cannot transport that rifle into NJ if you are not passing through. Since NJ would be an end point, you are subjected to the NJ firearms laws, and that would be a banned rifle under the NJ assault weapon ban. ok. dumb question. say the op was bringing it to the range, which was also an ffl, to sell it to them? or does it have to be shipped to them? While an FFL might be able to enter an AW into their AW ledger, or to possess normal capacity magazines over 15 rounds for sale to LEO with letterhead, it changes NONE of my quoted examples for someone in PA wanting to travel to a range in NJ. I will add some more examples. 1) PA person wants to sell an AW qualifying firearm to a NJ FFL. They can ship it here to an 01 ffl who can enter it in their AW ledger. That FFL can seell it on to an out of state FFL or to LE department or LEO with departmental request on letterhead (not sure on the dotting all the Is and crossing all the Ts on that one). If they drive to that 01 FFL, they are in possession of an illegal firearm. 2) PA person wants to sell it to an 07. They can ship it to them, the 07 can perform compliance work on it and turn it into a not banned weapon and sell it on to a NJ resident with appropriate paperwork. You still can't drvie it there because nothing magical about the transaction exempts you from jack. IF it is banned or illegal in NJ, NOTHING that I know of exempts you from the law if your end destination is in NJ. The only possible exception to this might be some of the wording for LEO exemption for out of state leo and the active duty military exemptions for certain situations. I'll let someone who has dissected those because they have a vested interest in them chime in if that gets you any special opportunities to be special people with separate laws us commoners don't get the benefit of. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mipafox 438 Posted March 2, 2015 I misinterpreted the bold part to mean the person was not in NJ, as in an out of state resident. In fact, I interpreted it correctly. You stated it wrongly. That was not the clearest phrase. I also missed what he meant (for whatever that is worth). I thought he meant legal guns and had guns in PA but had no guns in Jersey. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Newtonian 453 Posted March 3, 2015 I had a few people tell me it was legal (including a NJ range officer/gun seller) and a few tell me it was illegal, so I'll just go with illegal since the police will probably have conflicting viewpoints as well. If something is illegal in NJ for me why would it not be illegal for you? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aguilar64 9 Posted March 3, 2015 To the original poster, were you at the range (won't mention the name) Saturday night asking one of the sales person the same question, if you were he was feeding you a lot of misinformation. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AVB-AMG 530 Posted March 3, 2015 Going back to the original title of this thread, I have a question for the forum for clarification: As I understand current NJ law regarding transporting my semi-automatic handgun(s) in my vehicle to and from a NJ range for practice, from my home in NJ, I must do the following to be compliant: 1. Place each unloaded gun with any unloaded magazines in a separate case, bag or container in the back of my SUV with the horizontal roller “shade” pulled over the rear-most storage area to make them inaccessible or in the locked trunk of my car. 2. Place all of my hand gun ammunition in their original boxes with the plastic “egg crate” style round separators, in a separate padlocked ammo box container, in the back of my SUV or car, as described above. Currently, I do all of that. Specifically I transport my hand guns in individual protective gun rugs and the ammunition in a separate locked ammo box, yet placing all of them inside one large range bag, placed in the back of my vehicle, as described above. Is this compliant with the “letter of the law” in NJ as you interpret it or am I really being overly cautious and excessive in my attempt at complying with NJ law? For what it is worth, I have also taken the additional step of making photocopy’s of all of my NJ Pistol Purchase Permit used for purchasing each gun, along with the store receipt for their separate purchases and place them in clear acetate sleeves and keep them in each of my gun rugs. This way, I can easily prove to any inquiring LEO that I have legally purchased each gun in NJ and that I am their lawful owner. AVB-AMG Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pizza Bob 1,488 Posted March 3, 2015 AVB-AMG: Way overkill - but legal. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PK90 3,570 Posted March 3, 2015 Don't forget to notify each police department that you travel through that you have firearms. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kwadz 11 Posted March 3, 2015 I had a few people tell me it was legal (including a NJ range officer/gun seller) and a few tell me it was illegal, so I'll just go with illegal since the police will probably have conflicting viewpoints as well. Ok, I know we're beating a dead horse, but please tell us what it is that you have that is so controversial. NJ's laws, as confusing as they may seem, are pretty cut and dry when it comes to which firearms are NJ legal. The curiosity is killing me after all of this baloney. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AVB-AMG 530 Posted March 3, 2015 Don't forget to notify each police department that you travel through that you have firearms. I think that anyone that has an NRA or 2nd Ammendment Rights sticker(s) on the back of their vehicle is essentially and effectively doing just that.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites