Questions from PA resident new to NJ residency

[archon242 0]

Hello Fellow NJ Gun Owners,

 

I am a life long resident of PA but will shortly be a resident of southern NJ for the first time in my life.

 

I am very aware that gun laws in NJ are vastly different then PA and have done a lot of research, but I want to ask the amateur professionals some questions to make sure I am 100% correct about what gun ownership means in NJ. (i.e I don't want to become one of those PA residents that does something technically illegal then have to beg Christe to pardon me because of my stupidity).

 

Firearm Owners ID. Even though it appears as part of my move, transporting firearms to NJ would fit into one of the few narrow exemptions provided for by law, it appears that it is best to transport my firearms after I obtain a FOID card from the local PD. I don't mind doing so (but it is annoying) but some report that it takes months to obtain this card once the paperwork is followed. Can anyone confirm this is true? I have a good friend who is going to take custody of my firearms in PA, but I would like to transport them to NJ and legally possess and transport them as soon as possible.

 

Handgun Permit. I know a PA LTCF is no good in Jersey and from what I read on the internet it doesn't sound like it is even worth applying for one. I am told there are gun "friendly" areas of South Jersey where getting a permit is remotely possible, but generally NJ is effectively a no issue state barring extraordinary circumstances or political connection. It isn't that I don't mind a good fight for my rights, but having a permit denial in the public record could affect my other non-resident permits. But, if there is a possible way to legally obtain a permit and a remote chance of getting one I would like to know.

 

Transit of Long Guns. It seems that with a FOID card you can transport long arms as long as they are LOCKED and the ammo is also LOCKED (different from PA...also I have an SUV without a separate trunk). Without a FOID it would appear that you can only transport long guns directly to and from for circumstances that fall within the narrow exceptions of the law (going to and from range, gun smith, etc.) Please let me know if this understanding is correct. Also what qualifies as "locked"? My gun cases have punch outs for combination or pad locks, but I would have to secure them with three locks so they really wouldn't open at all. Should I invest in some new gun cases to avoid problems?

 

Carrying Handguns.  My take is that unless you have a handgun permit you can only really carry in your house. I've seen some mixed opinions about yard or other such areas of private property (I will have a small backyard and front yard), but the general opinion seems to be don't carry your handgun outside of the four physical corners of your house without a permit. Is this correct? 

 

"Cop Killer" Rounds. Sounds like the NJ Superior Court has decided transit of HP rounds into NJ does not qualify for interstate transit exemption and that NJ law does not allow from a move exception. Advice seems to be ditch your out of state HP rounds and buy them again in NJ if you want to. Is that right?

 

"High Capacity" Magazines. It seems like the standard advice is just sell them or leave them in PA. Simple possession of them is illegal no matter how transported or possessed. Sounds like I should sell my Glock 30 round mags before I move, right?

 

Miss Anything? I'm surprised that in 2016 with gun rights trending that NJ is still so anti-gun. But, you have to live with the laws of the land in which you live. Did I miss anything that I should know about? Is NJ really as anti-gun as the internet portrays? One thing is for sure, I don't want to end up being a news story about how an overzealous local cop arrests me simply because I overlooked some technicality when it comes to transit, carry, etc. Any further advice is welcome and appreciated in advance.

[NJGF 375]

1. A FPID is needed to purchase not possess. You can transport your NJ legal guns to NJ when you move to your new house.
2. Forget about a handgun carry permit. Really not possible unless you have ongoing current threats against you that you can prove to a judge it is required to protect your life. If you get shot and killed then that would be perfect evidence (but you still might have to wait for over 30 days to get it 
3. The FPID also acts as a carry license for long guns. No locks are required. Just don't go onto school grounds. And they have to be unloaded.
4. You can carry a handgun on your own property inside and outside of your house. Also at your business that you may own.
5. I am not sure about moving with HP but I don't think there is a specific exemption for them so easier to re-buy in NJ.
6. Anything greater than 15 rounds in NJ (at least for now) is not allowed in NJ even temporarily. Semi-auto shotguns are limited to 6 rounds.
7. If you get stopped for a traffic stop do not volunteer that you are carrying guns. Don't have anything in the car that visibly shows that you have guns in the car and don't allow your car to be searched.

Welcome to NJ. Most of us would rather move to PA though.

[Soup76 4]

"I am a life long resident of PA but will shortly be a resident of southern NJ for the first time in my life."

 

 

Not sure I would willingly move from PA to NJ, but to each their own 

In either event, welcome to the PRNJ 

 

It sounds like you've already done some reading on NJ law...that's awesome!  I still study them and I've lived here for over a year now.

 

Continue to educate yourself and exercise your Constitutional Rights...including the 4th and 5th, not just the 2nd.

 

Welcome! 

[Smokin .50 1,907]

Send me a PM with your phone number so I can speak to you directly to answer your questions and quell your fears.  Welcom Comrade to the PRNJ!

 

Dave Rosenthal, VP

Coalition of New Jersey Firearm owners (CNJFO)

http://www.cnjfo.com 

[GramGun79 226]

 

1. A FPID is needed to purchase not possess. You can transport your NJ legal guns to NJ when you move to your new house.
2. Forget about a handgun carry permit. Really not possible unless you have ongoing current threats against you that you can prove to a judge it is required to protect your life. If you get shot and killed then that would be perfect evidence (but you still might have to wait for over 30 days to get it 
3. The FPID also acts as a carry license for long guns. No locks are required. Just don't go onto school grounds. And they have to be unloaded.
4. You can carry a handgun on your own property inside and outside of your house. Also at your business that you may own.
5. I am not sure about moving with HP but I don't think there is a specific exemption for them so easier to re-buy in NJ.
6. Anything greater than 15 rounds in NJ (at least for now) is not allowed in NJ even temporarily. Semi-auto shotguns are limited to 6 rounds.
7. If you get stopped for a traffic stop do not volunteer that you are carrying guns. Don't have anything in the car that visibly shows that you have guns in the car and don't allow your car to be searched.

Welcome to NJ. Most of us would rather move to PA though.

 

 

question on answer #4. It is legal to bring my handgun to work with me being that i am the owner?

[Malsua 1,422]

question on answer #4. It is legal to bring my handgun to work with me being that i am the owner?

 

Yes.

 

That said, you have to own(or lease) the property.  It wouldn't apply if you were a contractor on a site or something.   A plumber that works out of his truck can't use the "Business" exemption for possession.  I'm not sure if anyone has tried that and been given an affirmative defense in that case but owning guns in NJ is at your own peril.

[Smokin .50 1,907]

Yes.

 

That said, you have to own(or lease) the property.  It wouldn't apply if you were a contractor on a site or something.   A plumber that works out of his truck can't use the "Business" exemption for possession.  I'm not sure if anyone has tried that and been given an affirmative defense in that case but owning guns in NJ is at your own peril.

I strongly doubt it!  Business must be a FIXED LOCATION!  So a Hot Dog Kart doing a CASH Bidness on a street corner is a NO-GO, and so is the Plumber, Mason, Carpenter, Sewer Cleaner, Painter, Installer, Roofer, Glazer, Contractor, Landscaper, Grass Cutter, Paver Guy, et-al.

[Malsua 1,422]

I strongly doubt it!  Business must be a FIXED LOCATION!  So a Hot Dog Kart doing a CASH Bidness on a street corner is a NO-GO, and so is the Plumber, Mason, Carpenter, Sewer Cleaner, Painter, Installer, Roofer, Glazer, Contractor, Landscaper, Grass Cutter, Paver Guy, et-al.

 

I agree.  I believe the heart of the law is that you own title to the land you are standing on and if you do, it's legal to possess firearms there unless otherwise prohibited.

[GrumpyOldRetiree 38]

You seem to have researched this topic pretty well from the get-go, but if you haven't done so already, I suggest you also read up on the "use of force" statutes (2C:3...).

 

I AM NOT A LAWYER. These observations are the result of my own, lay persons research into the subject and I welcome any corrections if I have misrepresented the current law.:

 

While the firearms laws allow you to carry on your own property, the use of force statues apply differently depending on whether you are in your dwelling or not.

In your dwelling, you have no duty to retreat and the burden falls upon the state to prove that your actions were not reasonable.

In your back yard, you DO have a duty to retreat and you would have to prove justification as an affirmative defense.

 

Additionally, none of the statues protect you from civil lawsuits.

[carl_g 568]

Don't do it!!!

[NJGF 375]

I don't believe there is a specific exemption to allow you to bring your gun to your work location (even if you own a fixed location) except when moving. Remember that pretty much everything is illegal in NJ unless you meet one of the very specific exemptions so be careful (not fearful but careful).

[GrumpyOldRetiree 38]

Don't do it!!!

Ha, ha...This was the first thought that popped into my mind!

[Malsua 1,422]

I don't believe there is a specific exemption to allow you to bring your gun to your work location (even if you own a fixed location) except when moving. Remember that pretty much everything is illegal in NJ unless you meet one of the very specific exemptions so be careful (not fearful but careful).

 

Nothing in subsections b., c. and d. of N.J.S. 2C:39-5 shall be construed to prevent a person keeping or carrying about his place of business, residence, premises or other land owned or possessed by him, any firearm, or from carrying the same, in the manner specified in subsection g. of this section, from any place of purchase to his residence or place of business, between his dwelling and his place of business, between one place of business or residence and another when moving, or between his dwelling or place of business and place where such firearms are repaired, for the purpose of repair. For the purposes of this section, a place of business shall be deemed to be a fixed location.

 

The "moving only" exemption only applies to hollow points from one home to another. To move hollow points, you must go from your home to the range and from the range to the other home.

[GrumpyOldRetiree 38]

I don't believe there is a specific exemption to allow you to bring your gun to your work location (even if you own a fixed location) except when moving. Remember that pretty much everything is illegal in NJ unless you meet one of the very specific exemptions so be careful (not fearful but careful).

 

From 2C:39-6 (bolding & underlining is mine):

 

e.Nothing in subsections b., c. and d. of N.J.S.2C:39-5 shall be construed to prevent a person keeping or carrying about his place of business, residence, premises or other land owned or possessed by him, any firearm, or from carrying the same, in the manner specified in subsection g. of this section, from any place of purchase to his residence or place of business, between his dwelling and his place of business, between one place of business or residence and another when moving, or between his dwelling or place of business and place where such firearms are repaired, for the purpose of repair.  For the purposes of this section, a place of business shall be deemed to be a fixed location.

[NJGF 375]

Thanks Malsua and GrumpyOldRetiree, I stand corrected. I work at home so I can carry freely between them and I have never been pulled over yet 

[Howard 538]

Take Smokin .50 up on his offer to talk you through the stuff.  Dave knows the laws and will help you out.

 

As for the hollow point thing, I have a suggestion.  Take them to Fedex or UPS and just ship them from PA to your new address in NJ, that way you are not transporting them.  That should be considered no different than your buying them online and having them shipped to your home.  Also I would be careful about having someone else watch your guns and bringing them here later.  I am so NJ indoctrinated so I don't know about free states, but wouldn't that be considered an illegal transfer - especially for any handguns?

[archon242 0]

So I take it that getting a handgun permit is thinking beyond the pale even if my chief of police might be gun friendly? 

 

I'm sure the meth-heads and crack-addicts on PATCO will be glad to know that your average law abiding citizen at 3:00am doesn't have a gun on him.

 

Can't say the same about SEPTA or the EL when they see you firearm "print" or someone is open carrying in a train car. They always back off (or just pipe down) when they realize you are carrying.

[PeteF 1,044]

So I take it that getting a handgun permit is thinking beyond the pale even if my chief of police might be gun friendly?

 

Just to clarify. In NJ you apply for a Permit To Purchase (P2P) a handgun, which you can get by jumping through the hoops. This is not a carry permit.

 

You won't get a carry permit unless you are politically connected. Even if the PD endorses you, the judge will then deny the carry permit. (I think they get penalized a years salary if they approve one, but I may be mistaken)

[Kevin125 4,772]

So I take it that getting a handgun permit is thinking beyond the pale even if my chief of police might be gun friendly? 

 

I'm sure the meth-heads and crack-addicts on PATCO will be glad to know that your average law abiding citizen at 3:00am doesn't have a gun on him.

 

Can't say the same about SEPTA or the EL when they see you firearm "print" or someone is open carrying in a train car. They always back off (or just pipe down) when they realize you are carrying.

 

Getting a handgun carry permit in NJ is virtually impossible.  And yes, the meth-heads and various other low-lifes are happy about that.  Makes their job of taking your stuff easier.

 

On carrying at your place of business... pay attention to this part..."in the manner specified in subsection g. of this section, from any place of purchase to his residence or place of business."  It has to be transported cased and unloaded and not accessible persons in the vehicle. aka.. you can't 'carry' while traveling between your home and owned fixed place of business.

 

Also, for transport within the state of NJ, the case does NOT need to be locked, just closed unless in the "trunk", in which case... (in the trunk) is can be uncased... not that you'd want to abuse your guns like that.  And ammo does not need to be separately locked. 

 

Also... without being issued a FID... transport of long guns must be directly to or from your homes, the range, gun shop, gun smith or legal place to hunt.  (not sure if I left any out).  So when able, it would be good to have that FID. 

 

Here's a good post that will provide more info.  It summarizes NJ Gun Laws and provides some examples that are helpful. 

 

http://www.njgunforums.com/forum/index.php/topic/29389-read-before-posting-nj-gun-law-faq/

 

also.. when looking up .GOV info on firearms laws.... There's the "Law".... and there are the "suggestions" by the NJ State Police.   You'll find that the "suggestions" are more restrictive... but they are -not- the law.

[ogfarmer 138]

this is a good resource

http://www.lulu.com/shop/http://www.lulu.com/shop/evan-nappen/new-jersey-gun-law/paperback/product-22228354.html

 

BTW-semi auto shotguns cant have a pistol grip or capacity over 6+1rds

 

there is also a extensive list of firearms that are banned by name in NJ

 

Also semi auto rifles that can accept removable magazines cannot have a adjustable stock, bayonet lug or flash hider

[archon242 0]

Thanks for the info. And man are the gun laws in NJ really archaic. You would think this is a land that withstands time and space. It is 2016 and obvious to any fool that gun control is a failed social experiment.  

[silverado427 10,730]

All I can say is I'm sorry for your loss ( Freedom )   Where do I send  the flowers to.

[DaveR 42]

Wouldn't worry about hollow points, only illegal in the commission of a crime,

 

Make sure you have enough pistol ammo, you need you FID card to buy it here, and that can take a while.  Or buy at the range for range use at the range without the card..  .

 

If you are looking at any other handguns, get them before moving to NJ, jumping through our hoops are a PITA.

 

15 round mag limits here, only you know where your other ones are.

 

Any rifles you have on the AR platform are probably illegal in NJ.

 

Carry permit?  Still waiting on the unicorn to drop mine off.

 

Do not register anything you have in NJ, not required.

 

For transporting no 'lock' is needed, separate ammo from firearms, once in NJ go straight to your house, don't stop anywhere else.

Kind of odd that wrapped in paper, tied in string is good to go.

 

http://www.njsp.org/firearms/transport-firearm.shtml

 

http://www.njsp.org/firearms/firearms-faqs.shtml

 

Must feel like a salmon swimming upstream coming to NJ, year after year we lead the nation in percentage of people moving out.

[NJGF 375]

There is another law you should be aware of: the federal Gun Free School Zone Act (which applies in all 50 states).

 

Basically (there are more details) you cannot drive within 1000 feet of a school unless the gun is locked. An exception exists in NJ for long guns if you have a FPID card. In states that issue carry permits this same exemption applies to handguns BUT only permits issued by each state are valid for this exemption (no reciprocity with other states).

 

In addition NJ law prohibits guns on school grounds (which implies don't park your car in a school parking lot with a shotgun in the trunk).

 

Everyone will probably say they routinely ignore the GFSZA and almost no one gets prosecuted for this but I am paranoid and value my freedom. And a school means any school public or private (possibly home schools?).

 

This is a particularly onerous law which should be removed one day (or found unconstitutional).

[Malsua 1,422]

Wouldn't worry about hollow points, only illegal in the commission of a crime,

 

Hollow points must be treated the same way as handguns.   Furthermore, if you are transporting hollow points from one residence to a different residence, you must first travel to a firing range.  No I am not making that up.

[brucin 923]

Thanks for the info. And man are the gun laws in NJ really archaic. You would think this is a land that withstands time and space. It is 2016 and obvious to any fool that gun control is a failed social experiment.  

NJ where the 2nd amendment goes to die.

 

Welcome

[CMJeepster 2,778]

I moved here before I knew what I was getting into and regret it almost every single day.

 

BTW, you're not relocating from South Philly by any chance, are you? I have a friend who is doing so and thought that there might be a connection...

[PeteF 1,044]

Wouldn't worry about hollow points, only illegal in the commission of a crime,

 

NO.  Just having hollow points outside the exemptions is enough to get you jammed up.

Legally think of them as little handguns.

[archon242 0]

I moved here before I knew what I was getting into and regret it almost every single day.

 

BTW, you're not relocating from South Philly by any chance, are you? I have a friend who is doing so and thought that there might be a connection...

No I am coming from Center City. So far doesn't feel so bad but planning on moving back to Philly is the next 1-3 years. Life just gave me a lot of reasons all at once where moving to South Jersey made sense.

[mipafox 438]

What were you thinking?

 

Are you a Skook or something? No offense. Sorry for your loss.