Wrong Gun?

[SmittyMHS 603]

I found this an interesting read and was a reason why I choose a Beretta. I know a lotta folks here are Glock guys, so I'll put on the flame suit...

 

http://bearingarms.com/wrong-gun-popular-gun-law-enforcement-mistake/

[High Exposure 5,671]

That was from last May. There has been many responses detailing the flaws in his argument. Each is more articulate than what I would have responded with, but they hit all the points I would have brought up.

 

There have been NDs as long as there have been guns. Revolvers, 1911s, DA/SA, it doesn't matter. Keep your finger off the trigger and it doesn't go bang.

 

My favorite is from Ron Avery, who's opinion I respect very much:

https://www.policeone.com/police-products/firearms/training/articles/8572554-Dont-blame-the-gun-Why-the-argument-against-striker-fired-guns-is-flawed/

 

Another:

https://www.policeone.com/police-trainers/articles/8558783-No-Glocks-for-cops-Why-the-DA-SA-argument-is-flawed/

 

And one from 2 weeks ago:

https://www.policeone.com/police-products/firearms/training/articles/8572554-Dont-blame-the-gun-Why-the-argument-against-striker-fired-guns-is-flawed/

 

I am very comfortable carrying a Glock at work and when off duty.

[Rob0115 1,107]

HE is correct, when I show people firearms and discuss the lack of safety on Glocks, VP, PPQ guns, just to name three, I let them know that their index finger is the only and most important safety on any gun. No finger on trigger means no round will be discharged. Trigger discipline is all its about and same if you have a manual safety.

 

When I am fortunate enough to carry, FL, I use a 340PD wheel gun (no Safety), s&W shield 9mm (no safety), XDS grip safety.

[Vicious 138]

Training trumps all other factors.

[High Exposure 5,671]

Proper training from a quality and reputable instructor trumps all other factors.

Fixed it for ya

 

But you are absolutely correct:

 

It's a software issue, not a hardware problem.

[Vicious 138]

Fixed it for ya

 

But you are absolutely correct:

 

It's a software issue, not a hardware problem.

 

lol Thanks, I like to keep 'em short and sweet.

[Handyman 5,682]

I found this an interesting read and was a reason why I choose a Beretta. I know a lotta folks here are Glock guys, so I'll put on the flame suit...

 

http://bearingarms.com/wrong-gun-popular-gun-law-enforcement-mistake/

 

To hell with function. A Beretta is a sexy piece. A Glock looks like an East German librarian.

[fishnut 2,358]

That article is dumb. The author claims that glock and other similar guns have a design flaw and then talks about 20% of officers put their finger on the trigger when they should not. How the hell is that a design flaw? Sounds like an officer flaw/training flaw to me. With that being said I personally don't like glock as they are just not comfortable for me to shoot so I probably will never own a glock. But I do think that they are a decent quality gun. They are just not for me.

[High Exposure 5,671]

The long and short of it is really simple -

 

There are many psychological reasons why people place their fingers on the triggers - especially in low light. None of them are acceptable, but they happen, often unconsciously and need to be trained away.

 

On top of that, an average human can exert a little over 30lbs of pressure with their trigger finger during a startle response or postural disturbance. Even more with deliberate thought as in a sympathetic reflex.

 

Until you put 35lb triggers on all guns there will be NDs. Then of course, the guns will be un-shootable with those God awful triggers. Those heavy 12lb NY triggers do nothing to make the guns "safer" or prevent NDs, they just make them harder to shoot accurately.

[mipafox 438]

HE is correct, when I show people firearms and discuss the lack of safety on Glocks, VP, PPQ guns, just to name three, I let them know that their index finger is the only and most important safety on any gun. No finger on trigger means no round will be discharged. Trigger discipline is all its about and same if you have a manual safety.

 

When I am fortunate enough to carry, FL, I use a 340PD wheel gun (no Safety), s&W shield 9mm (no safety), XDS grip safety.

I mostly carry a Glock and I am not that concerned about Me, because I am very concerned every time I touch it (especially holstering). Massad Ayoob (whom I often do not agree with) has pointed out that gun grab attacks are often averted by gun safeties and has given plenty of examples. So, something to consider.

[Rob0115 1,107]

I mostly carry a Glock and I am not that concerned about Me, because I am very concerned every time I touch it (especially holstering). Massad Ayoob (whom I often do not agree with) has pointed out that gun grab attacks are often averted by gun safeties and has given plenty of examples. So, something to consider.

It's an excellent counterpoint and one I should and will study. The only exception I take with his view, without much thought or research, is the number of law enforcement and military personnel carry Glocks would refute this stance.

[High Exposure 5,671]

Gun grab attacks are often averted by carrying concealed so the bad guys don't know you have a gun.

 

Gun grab attacks are often averted by carrying you pistol in a quality retention holster.

 

Gun grab attacks are often averted by training in weapons retention techniques.

 

Gun grab attacks are often averted by paying attention to your surroundings.

[checko 180]

 

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[High Exposure 5,671]

 

 

:rofl:

[capt14k 2,052]

I have Berettas because I think they look better and better made than Glocks. I don't know if I buy the argument in the OP article, but I do know I would never buy a Glock.

 

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[Vicious 138]

Gun grab attacks are often averted by carrying concealed so the bad guys don't know you have a gun.

 

Gun grab attacks are often averted by carrying you pistol in a quality retention holster.

 

Gun grab attacks are often averted by training in weapons retention techniques.

 

Gun grab attacks are often averted by paying attention to your surroundings.

 

Armed or unarmed, beware condition white.

[Soup76 4]

I'm not sure there is such a thing as the "wrong gun"

 

Each individual has there own preference and reasoning as to why they choose a specific gun.

 

I choose my Beretta because it's what I qualified on and I was most familiar with.  

 

I'm still planning on getting a Glock here soon, why... because I like variety 

[mipafox 438]

Armed or unarmed, beware condition white.

You're not Rambo. I ask you for directions and convince you to read the directions I have on a piece of paper, maybe even throw in a set of boobs, your brain will leak out your ears. That's how many criminals work. It's very easy to put you into a situation where your situational awareness is nearly zero. Unless you simply refuse to engage people in public.

[Howard 538]

I have a Beretta and several Glocks and have no real issues with either.  I think a Beretta is only the right gun if you have freakishly large hands as the grip is just huge.  That makes it very hard to reload the gun without changing your grip which costly you time.  I also don't like the decocker idea, but that is just personal preference.  As for the Glock, well yes the main safety is between your ears - but in some ways that is a positive thing.  I have seen many people try to shoot guns without taking off the safety.  Unless you train a lot that can happen, especially in a high pressure situation.  Thus, you might be better off not having an external safety to think about.  Also guns like the Beretta which are DS/SA have different trigger pulls and many people tend to yank that first shot due to the hard trigger pull, another reason something that is more consistent like a Glock might be better.  Finally, Glocks are highly reliable and unlike many guns almost always go bang when you want or need them too.  There really is no one right answer nor gun.  If there was, there would only be one type of gun.

[PD2K 115]

Different strokes for different folks. Personally I like Glocks and do not like an external safety on my pistol.

[High Exposure 5,671]

As a point of reference:

 

I just attended a three day "Train the Trainer" course for Active Shooter Reaponse up at Morris Acounty Police Academy.

 

Three days of pretty intense Force in Force training with Simunitions.

 

The sims guns issued to us - Beretta 92.

 

As it was force on force, we had to wear gloves (everyone fixates on the gun and rounds to the hands are the most common hits).

 

Three times I inadvertently swiped the slide mounted safety to the on position while reloading my pistol and ended up being shot. No DA/SA pistols, and no external safeties for me please.

[High Exposure 5,671]

You're not Rambo. I ask you for directions and convince you to read the directions I have on a piece of paper, maybe even throw in a set of boobs, your brain will leak out your ears. That's how many criminals work. It's very easy to put you into a situation where your situational awareness is nearly zero. Unless you simply refuse to engage people in public.

This is true.

 

However if you are accustomed to the speed at which violence occurs, and if you practice it, you can talk to people in Yellow, give directions, make a joke, etc... and the person you are talking to will never know.

 

As LE, you also often have a partner that watches while you talk.

[checko 180]

As a point of reference:

 

I just attended a three day "Train the Trainer" course for Active Shooter Reaponse up at Morris Acounty Police Academy.

 

Three days of pretty intense Force in Force training with Simunitions.

 

The sims guns issued to us - Beretta 92.

 

As it was force on force, we had to wear gloves (everyone fixates on the gun and rounds to the hands are the most common hits).

 

Three times I inadvertently swiped the slide mounted safety to the on position while reloading my pistol and ended up being shot. No DA/SA pistols, and no external safeties for me please.

Did Yeager teach you that slide releases are for pussies?

 

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[High Exposure 5,671]

 

 

Did Yeager l teach you that slide releases are for pussies?

 

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Fucker

 

No, but a combination of XL padded safety gloves and the fact that my hands are the same size as a 12 year old Swedish Girl made the slide release lever a no-go.

 

So it was slingshot technique for me all three days.