No water in toilet tank

[ChrisJM981 924]

1 hour ago, siderman said:

All this talk about lines freezing would drive me nuts if it happened to me, cant tolerate that shit, would be busting up walls & ceilings lol. I'm very impatient but fortunatly fairly handy too.

The last I did that I had to re-insulate my garage ceiling with my daughter' bedroom above. Drywall sucks, so I paid someone to put it up and mud.

[ChrisJM981 924]

50 minutes ago, Smokin .50 said:

Good luck OP!  A friend of mine had this happen.  Called a plumber.  Plumber asked to borrow a hair dryer.  Plumber laid-down on the floor with hair dryer pointed at frozen line.  Was able to unfreeze the line.  Home owner ran to Lowe's & bought an oil filled space heater & left same in that bathroom.  Electric was cheaper than a leaking pipe  

Zeke is spot-on with diagnoses.

I just put the heat fan I have in the bathroom and aimed it at the corner. It heats up to 100 degrees, so I'll check on it in a few hours. Thanks for all the help. I'll report the results.

[Ray Ray 3,566]

Poop with caution in Chris's house.

[Screwball 483]

Forgot the bucket? Line to toilet only being frozen is not unusual. I can tell you a way to unfreeze it with something you may have but it isn't safe.

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I’m pretty sure what you are going to say... and if it isn’t copper, not going to work.

Our company has a stamp that we hand out to technicians, which states we aren’t responsible for any pipe bursts due to that way of thawing. If it was his whole house, and was still going to be cold for a few days... I might suggest it, but not now. All he needs is a pipe to burst in the wall/ceiling.

For as much as it stinks, I’d just toss a space heater in there and wait until the temperature goes up tomorrow. For lines to freeze, it has to be well below freezing for a few days. If it never happened before, I’d say make sure the heating isn’t the cause. If it happens consistently, and it isn’t a heavily used toilet, I’d put an access panel where the line comes off for that toilet, toss a valve with a bleeder in, and just shut that down/drain if it is going to be a cold spell.

[capt14k 2,052]

 I’m pretty sure what you are going to say... and if it isn’t copper, not going to work. 

Our company has a stamp that we hand out to technicians, which states we aren’t responsible for any pipe bursts due to that way of thawing. If it was his whole house, and was still going to be cold for a few days... I might suggest it, but not now. All he needs is a pipe to burst in the wall/ceiling.

 

For as much as it stinks, I’d just toss a space heater in there and wait until the temperature goes up tomorrow. For lines to freeze, it has to be well below freezing for a few days. If it never happened before, I’d say make sure the heating isn’t the cause. If it happens consistently, and it isn’t a heavily used toilet, I’d put an access panel where the line comes off for that toilet, toss a valve with a bleeder in, and just shut that down/drain if it is going to be a cold spell.

 

 

   

I automatically assume copper. You are correct plastic pipe wouldn't work. In all honesty in our area I rarely encounter Pex. We have one retirement community that is CPVC.

 

This cold is unprecedented. The wind last night was causing frozen pipes that never froze before.

 

The other problem with that method is if the piping isn't bonded and grounded you can burn the house down. A plumber in PA burnt a new house to the ground 2 years ago using a newer welder. Some of the old welders are as good as a hot box. His old welder broke and he bought a new one. He quickly found out it wasn't rated to thaw pipes. Luckily no one was injured.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ChrisJM981 924]

1 minute ago, capt14k said:

I automatically assume copper. You are correct plastic pipe wouldn't work. In all honesty in our area I rarely encounter Pex. We have one retirement community that is CPVC.

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It's copper. It was -4 at 10am. Probably the culprit.  I have a space heater in there now. I have another bathroom, so the situation isn't critical yet.

[capt14k 2,052]

It's copper. It was -4 at 10am. Probably the culprit.  I have a space heater in there now. I have another bathroom, so the situation isn't critical yet.

Not worth messing around. Just keep an eye and ear out for water in case copper broke. It probably didn't.

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[ChrisJM981 924]

Just now, capt14k said:

Not worth messing around. Just keep an eye and ear out for water in case copper broke. It probably didn't.

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I keep checking the ceiling downstairs for wet spots. It's a fun game.

[capt14k 2,052]

I keep checking the ceiling downstairs for wet spots. It's a fun game.

Yeah it sucks. Cold got me today too. Dead battery. Left keys in ignition. Grabbed jump pack. Shut door. Connected to battery. Somehow power door locks locked. Realized spare keys were in my office. Not fun bending metal hanger in negative temps. Luckily it only took 20 minutes.

 

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[Screwball 483]

I automatically assume copper. You are correct plastic pipe wouldn't work. In all honesty in our area I rarely encounter Pex. We have one retirement community that is CPVC.
 
This cold is unprecedented. The wind last night was causing frozen pipes that never froze before.

We have a secretary that is a little slow... I had to call up a half dozen people in mobile home parks that were waiting on us to come to thaw lines that technicians knew couldn’t be done when given the job (we can use a heat gun, but how much do people want us to charge to sit there and do it; reminds me of Irene/Sandy... pumping out basements). This was right before she gets a call for black sludge coming up in a toilet, and asked the homeowner to flush to see if it is a drain or plumbing issue.

Our problem isn’t places that never freeze, but how bad ones that commonly do. Had to run another thawing machine out to Eatontown yesterday so the technician could run them inline. In about ten years of being here, I’ve known we could... but never actually saw it done. Have guys doing 16-18 hour days, and still can’t get it all done.

We redid the entire house in PEX, which I’m even happier about considering we are leaving (makes reconfiguring the kitchen a lot easier, since I didn’t want to redo a lot from what I’ve already done)... but had the heat redone last year. Did the foam insulation in the attic and sealed the crawl up. With all the cold last night, just got down to 38 in the crawlspace. Even if I didn’t insulate the pipes, I’d feel comfortable with it.

[capt14k 2,052]

I know the feeling. I'm heading out to 3 calls that just came in. Silly me I thought I would be able to relax today. Customers will have to wait though because I'm going sledding first.

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[JackDaWack 2,895]

23 minutes ago, capt14k said:

I know the feeling. I'm heading out to 3 calls that just came in. Silly me I thought I would be able to relax today. Customers will have to wait though because I'm going sledding first.

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Talk about customer service!!! ha!

 

If you have metal lines, can you just get some hot water in a bucket and let the lines heat up that way? (for the toilet) I guess a heat gun or space heater works just as good but those things can burn a house down if your not careful.

 

On a postive note, when caught early the pipes can be saved. We had a shower that froze up when temps went below 10 in my mom house, took a day to thaw out with a space heater but the pipes never ruptured. 

[Ray Ray 3,566]

You guys are all wrong.  A hair dryer or whatever really can't do any damage to PEX.  The temperature rating for PEX is so high that the water inside will boil.

Now, with that being said.   IF you leave a hair dryer on PEX for like an hour (if you don't trip the GFI or breaker) will EVENTUALLY warp the PEX and POSSIBLY even crack it.  But you would have to purposely set out to destroy it for that to happen.

[JackDaWack 2,895]

after looking it up, Pex can operate with a max of 200 degrees F, which is about half the temp required to melt it. 

But.... heat guns can get WAAAAAy hotter then that, soo be careful. It also not metal, so its a poor method to begin with as the heat will not be absorbed and distributed evenly like copper would.

[voyager9 3,434]

Had a run at 0200. Water leak in the rear of a multi family apartment building.  Buried plastic manifold feeding 4 units cracked. MUA couldn’t secure just that line and would have to take down the whole property (5 buildings, 40’ish units). Nothing we could do and told them their association had to come fix it. 

[Screwball 483]

If you have metal lines, can you just get some hot water in a bucket and let the lines heat up that way? (for the toilet) I guess a heat gun or space heater works just as good but those things can burn a house down if your not careful.
 
On a postive note, when caught early the pipes can be saved. We had a shower that froze up when temps went below 10 in my mom house, took a day to thaw out with a space heater but the pipes never ruptured.

For the first paragraph, what are you planning on doing? You say to put hot water in a bucket... you’d have to let it drain back down the line. How are you doing it without getting water everywhere?

If you really wanted to, you could run a nearby sink on hot (get it to temperature), kill the valve, rig up a supply line to go from the hot shutoff to the toilet shutoff (we have drain guys that do similar setups to flush kitchen sink drains after snaking, to make sure they got the clog), and send water backwards. But that is a little too much work for the current situation. And depending on how much of the pipe is frozen, you might have more of a mess taking it apart (if you shut both valves, the supply lines you rigged up are under pressure, and going to shoot water all over when undone; could be solved by a tee and a boiler drain). If you don’t get it defrosted with the first, you’d want to vacuum the water out of the toilet shutoff, and try again. At that point, I rather have someone thaw it with a machine... unless can’t due to non-conductive pipe.

[Ray Ray 3,566]

1 hour ago, JackDaWack said:

after looking it up, Pex can operate with a max of 200 degrees F, which is about half the temp required to melt it. 

But.... heat guns can get WAAAAAy hotter then that, soo be careful. It also not metal, so its a poor method to begin with as the heat will not be absorbed and distributed evenly like copper would.

It is not a poor method.  It's cheaper, easier to run, can be bent, doesn't coroade, flexes with the house and easier to work on.

[voyager9 3,434]

2 minutes ago, Ray Ray said:

It is not a poor method.  It's cheaper, easier to run, can be bent, doesn't coroade, flexes with the house and easier to work on.

And can’t be resold by vagrants for Meth

[capt14k 2,052]

It is not a poor method.  It's cheaper, easier to run, can be bent, doesn't coroade, flexes with the house and easier to work on.

Pex sucks.

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[capt14k 2,052]

Talk about customer service!!! ha!  

If you have metal lines, can you just get some hot water in a bucket and let the lines heat up that way? (for the toilet) I guess a heat gun or space heater works just as good but those things can burn a house down if your not careful.

 

On a postive note, when caught early the pipes can be saved. We had a shower that froze up when temps went below 10 in my mom house, took a day to thaw out with a space heater but the pipes never ruptured. 

 

Family comes first. I promised my kids sledding. So sledding we were doing. I've never broken a promise to them and never will. The frozen lines weren't going anywhere. I got a guy working on one, the other two I'm on my way to now. 

 

 

For the record Thompson Park in Jamesburg is better than Monmouth Battlefield State Park in Manalapan for sledding. Just wish Thompson Park still had the rope pulley to bring you back up the hill.

 

 

 

 

 

[Ray Ray 3,566]

1 minute ago, capt14k said:

Pex sucks.

Usually old timers say that because any monkey with a role of PEX, cutters and an afternoon can run water lines.  

[ChrisJM981 924]

3 hours ago, Ray Ray said:

Poop with caution in Chris's house.

Toilet back online. Resume pooping.

[Ray Ray 3,566]

10 minutes ago, voyager9 said:

And can’t be resold by vagrants for Meth

I don't use Meth

[Ray Ray 3,566]

Just now, ChrisJM981 said:

Toilet back online. Resume pooping.

Does the misses know about your online escapades with _________?

[capt14k 2,052]

Usually old timers say that because any monkey with a role of PEX, cutters and an afternoon can run water lines.  

Any monkey can run it is right. Running it correctly is another story. When large percents of homes with Pex have cancer remember I said it sucks.

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[Ray Ray 3,566]

Just now, capt14k said:

Any monkey can run it is right. Running it correctly is another story. When large percents of homes with Pex have cancer remember I said it sucks.

They already do. I live in the Cancer corridor.

[Screwball 483]

When large percents of homes with Pex have cancer remember I said it sucks.

 

What doesn’t cause cancer? What doesn’t have a chance of lead exposure? Even with that 2014 restriction on lead content in fittings... what about all the fittings installed in 2013 and earlier? I’m personally waiting for electronic cigarettes to be linked to cancer, so the guys at work that stuck with cigarettes can feel vindicated.

 

I personally only drink tap water at my parents, due to their conditioning system (the guy that installed the system puts it over bottled water). We drink bottle water... which will probably cause cancer just the same as PEX (especially if left in sunlight, very similar to warnings for PEX; don’t leave bottles sitting in the car). We don’t drink our water because it is well water with just a basic filter on it... because I was tired of dealing with the iron buildup at the washer. Had it tested, says it is fine. With all the issues with water in central NJ, I wouldn’t drink tap water (well or city) in large volume unless I trust the filtration/conditioning. PEX verses copper isn’t a huge worry to me over those other things. [emoji6]

[capt14k 2,052]

I will agree about not drinking tap water in NJ except for Atlantic City. Monroe Twp in Middlesex County I wouldn't shower with. Never seen water eat Chrome off a Moen faucet in under a year. 10 years is a long time for a water heater to last in Monroe. Crooked town gets their water from 6 wells dug years ago that don't go to the aquafier. Everyone else gets their water from aquafier or reservoir. Water Company in Monroe was setup as another Pucchi Boat Fund.

 

 

Imagine running Monroe water through Pex and all the nasty plastic chemicals that it will eat away at and put on or in your body? There is no reason to not use copper. If properly installed and good copper pipe is used it will last over 100 years. Use Imported M Copper, and one get's what they deserve. You get what you pay for.

 

 

 

 

[JackDaWack 2,895]

5 hours ago, Ray Ray said:

It is not a poor method.  It's cheaper, easier to run, can be bent, doesn't coroade, flexes with the house and easier to work on.

 I have newer plumbing in the house with it. I was referring to attempting to unfreeze pex with a heat gun. 

[Smokin .50 1,907]

5 hours ago, ChrisJM981 said:

Toilet back online. Resume pooping.

Glad things worked-out!  Be warm & well!

Rosey