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Are we seriously debating this? We teach our kids this before kindergarten: "Just because you can, doesn't mean you should." On a different note - if you are going to any kind of rally/protest/march/etc... and you see KKK or swastikas, that's a clue to about face and go home. All your presence does is add credence to those awful people. Standing shoulder to shoulder with a brown shirt or a white sheet will never ever help our cause.

I have been a member there for over a year and this has never been my experience, and in fact I just renewed my membership for another year. Everyone from the owner, range officers, professional, and clerical staff have always been very friendly and helpful.

I think there is a language issue going on.... It should be a self diagnostic thing. Ask yourself "Just because I can doesn't mean I should". When explaining this concept to others it's commonly said - "Just because you can, doesn't mean you should" It is not an imposed mindset, it is introspection.

That's not what I said. There is a difference between someone who regularly CC and happens to attend a rally and someone who Open carries an AR with hands on.

Her point still stands.

It's like they asked ME for input. You're welcome ladies @High Exposure, your welcome too

The thread became a waste of time when the chest and fist pumping started about peoples rights. Like we don't know what is right and wrong related to the 2A. The choir knows all and we don't need any reinsurance. We've been at it many times in many threads. Beating a dead horse comes to mind. My original response was related to SAF in their defense. The rest of the warriors blew it out of proportion. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Why do people bother commenting on threads being a waste of time? Wouldn't it be less of a waste of time to just not read and certainly not reply? Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

Your statement "you should not have any more rights because you live in VA" demonstrate you really don't understand how things work. Based on your statement no one should be able to open carry because you can't in NJ. You should be championing that right in VA, PA, AZ, and other states as OC has not created blood in the streets like in has in liberal venues like Chicago, Baltimore, Detroit, and more. Your beef is with NJ not VA. Maybe you'd be happy if the rest of the states had the same gun laws as NJ. Saying someone shouldn't have a right in another state is childish and petty. It shows you don't have an understanding of the Constitution. You are in no position to instruct me on the Constitution.

This. Your mission drives your gear. If your job/hobby required you to routinely switch from medium range (150-300yards) to MOUT range (25-150 yards) to CQB range (room distances) on the fly - the RDS w/magnifier was the answer for a lot of years. Until recently (5 years or so) Your only other option was a variable power scope without a true 1x at its lowest setting that was less than ideal at FISHing distances and was extremely expensive. Now, with so many excellent choices in the low power variable mag area - most with a true 1x - with quality options running a broad range of pricing, the FTS magnifier is really obsolete. You can buy an excellent quality 1-6 variable power optic and mount that will suit you much better for about the same price as an Aimpoint RDS and Aimpoint Magnifier with appropriate mounts. It is a no brainer.

Brian is indeed far from "scum" I've read his book & met Brian in person. Yes he made some bad decisions in his life, starting with knocking-up a stripper. That aside, I tend to agree with JackandJill on his accurate assessment of searching for a "perfect poster boy for 2A" and only being able to locate a failed man, a victim of both his own shortsightedness & the luck of the draw. JackandJill put it succinctly: " Until then, every case we see will fall into a broad spectrum of gray. We will have to decide if we support the ones in later half of gray, who displayed utter stupidity and even a hint of "illegal" activity (say, someone in possession of standard capacity)". And I'll add to that quote with: Do we always have to look for a way to throw one of our own UNDER THE BUS? The Judge who miss-instructed (improperly "charged") the jury was DISBARRED over it. Brian's case is a great example of a "Perfect Storm" of circumstances if there ever was one. His case also brought to light what I term as "Millennial house flopping". When you're a 20-something in the process of moving and sorta living out of your vehicle in-between flopping on friends' couches all over creation until you establish a more permanent residency, especially if only working part-time w/o any benefits. The 2C statutes on all of this were written in a time when you moved in a SINGLE day with a moving company, even if it was just a few towns away. Back when women stayed home with the kids & "the men" went to work. 21st century style "moving" with making several trips back & forth between where you're leaving & where you'll wind-up wasn't a speck on the radar screen . And renting a locker or storage facility on a very limited budget, with months worth of deposits paid via a credit card don't come easy to a guy stuck leaning on friends' to loan couches to him... Brian's case also brought to light the fact that the moving "EXEMPTION" was never written into the statutes regarding the transportation and/or possession of hollow point bullets when moving, PERIOD. This in & of itself is groundbreaking, and shows the nonsense we as gun owners must endure by first driving hollow points to an EXEMPT location such as a private gun club or commercial range in-between residences in order to put the EXEMPTION in force! Mind you either facility could be closed tight as a drum, but having the meta data on your phone camera with a picture of your car parked momentarily at said range with HP ammo in said photo would exonerate yer ass in a court of law. I'll personally never grow tired of relaying Brian's story. The "Perfect Storm" that made him do HARD TIME. The "Cautionary Tale" that never should have been inflicted upon him OR US............

Yeah, I'm with the 2 posters above... I've had my own concerns. I mean, there wasn't even ONE gunshot, and somehow the left has managed to tie this to the need for gun control! Can you imagine if just ONE open-carry "militia" member, even in self-defense, actually pulls out a gun at one of these protests and shoots somebody? What an epic disaster that would be! I don't even want to think how far the tentacles of a situation like that would reach.

The schedule and match program have been finalized for this winter's Frozen Nutz series of matches at South Jersey Shooting Club. The match dates are NOV 5th, DEC 3rd, JAN 7th, FEB 4th, AND MARCH 4th The range facility is located at 840 Piney Hollow Rd, Hammonton (actually Winslow Twp in Camden County) NJ 08037 As the individual match dates approach, you can pre-register by sending me a PM here on the forum before 9PM the night before a match. As we are limited to an absolute maximum of 40 shooters, pre-registering is a good idea. Dress warm (and in layers so you can shed them as the day warms up) and bring a lunch to keep the energy levels up. The 300 shoot house is under cover, so we shoot in all weather except for heavy snow the night before and where driving conditions would put life and limb at great peril. We hope to see all the regulars come back this winter, and maybe even some of you first-timers. Remember, we're the only high power game in town over the winter here in Joisey! ETA: For some reason, the forum will not let me attach the match bulletin to this post. PM me and I will send you the pdf of the Match Bulletin. Brian SOUTH JERSEY SHOOTING CLUB 2017-2018 300 YARD WINTER PRONE MATCHES COME ON OUT AND TRY YOUR HAND AT SHOOTING 300 YARDS PRONE. I WILL BE HOLDING FIVE (5) 300 YARD “FROZEN NUTZ” PRONE MATCHES THIS YEAR. THE DATES ARE NOV 5th, DEC 3rd, JAN 7th, FEB 4th, AND MARCH 4th. THERE WILL BE TWO SEPARATE CLASSES: RESTED AND SLING, BOTH WITH A CALIBER LIMIT OF 8MM/.323 THE MATCHES WILL CONSIST OF THREE SEPARATE STAGES OF 22 ROUNDS IN 22 MINUTES (the first match may have a 5-min sighter period at the match director’s discretion. Please try to have some kind of 300yd zero before the match) SLOW FIRE SINGLE ROUND FEED FROM THE PRONE POSITION. YOUR SCORE WILL BE THE BEST 20 OF YOUR 22 SHOTS ALLOWING FOR TWO SIGHTERS PER MATCH. BRING ENOUGH AMMO! THE RESTED RIFLES MAY BE SUPPORTED BY A FRONT REST/BIPOD OR OFF HAND & SLING AND SHOOTER’S SHOULDER OR REAR BAG/REST. THEY WILL BE SHOOTING ON THE MR-63 FC TARGET. THE SLING RIFLES MAY ONLY BE SUPPORTED BY THE OFF HAND & SLING AND SHOOTER’S SHOULDER. THEY WILL BE SHOOTING ON THE MR-63 TARGET. ENTRY FEE IS $12.00 PER SHOOTER. SIGN IN STARTS AT 9AM, SHOOTING TO START AT 10AM SHARP. THE MATCHES WILL ONLY BE CANCELLED DUE TO HEAVY SNOW THE DAY BEFORE THE MATCH. THE MATCH WILL BE SHOT IN ALL OTHER WEATHER. THIS IS A FUN MATCH ONLY, NOT NRA OR ANY OTHER ORG. APPROVED. HIGH SCORES FROM 4 OF THE 5 MATCHES WILL BE USED TO DETERMINE CHAMPION IN EACH CLASS. ANY QUESTIONS YOU CAN SEND ME AN EMAIL AT [email protected]. SHAYNE SIMCOX HIGH POWER RIFLE MATCH DIRECTOR.

I think it was good that Pizza Bob wrote this up. I do wonder if some of this (as Avalanche mentioned) isn't just the growing pains of a business that is still relatively young? As I recall, it even took them awhile to figure out the right membership rates, etc. My recent visit there was really positive - and the customer service was great. BobA (who I'm guessing was there much earlier) didn't have a good experience. That also makes me think they are working out the bugs but hopefully steadily moving in the right direction. Interestingly, when I mentioned to TTCs owner something that was NOT on the website, he readily admitted that they didn't really keep up with the website .. because they had pretty much moved over to using their Facebook page as their primary communication vehicle. I see this ALL THE TIME with small businesses --- a webpage that's either "under construction" and never fully launched... or one that's launched but then never checked, updated, etc. What they probably need to do is go through their entire webpage, fact check everything, make corrections, and maybe even distill it down to a simpler page and add a link to drive users to their Facebook page for "current events", etc. Now, it doesn't sound like the poor website copy fully explains the disconnect that Pizza Bob described, but it does seem to be one root cause that got things off on the wrong foot. They need to fix that - otherwise, it does look like false advertising (whether or not it was intended that way). And that's too bad --- because my impression is that they are really trying to provide excellent service. But, you just can't have big gaffes like that --- customers will remember the one time you screwed up (and tell everyone they know about it), but they'll forget the ninety-nine times you provided service flawlessly! That's just the way it is!

@Griz you are correct however future SCOTUS can overturn incorrect decisions of previous SCOTUS. I believe both the incorrect interpretation of the 2nd Amendment and Overreach of the 14th Amendment will be overturned. When the 2nd Amendment is interpreted correctly laws that infringe on the ownership or carry of firearms will be ruled Unconstitutional. Once that happens no state can pass any law that will infringe on RTKB Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

On the road to the Friends of Pat gathering in Alliance, Ohio. Good times, good people, good food, and guns! Lots and lots of guns! Miss you Pat! For the next 3 days, Alliance Ohio will be the safest town in the US.

I'm getting a lil frustrated here. I didn't say concealed is provoking. Brandishing is. I'm done with this retarded thread. It went way off on a tangent. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

You are going off base. They are brandishing.... Chest pounding, etc... That is provoking.....that is not concealed.

Where to start? Let's start by saying that I never said anyone here called him scum. If I was misinterpreted, then please accept my apology. I read the news accounts, and we agree he was stupid in more ways than one. Please don't lump me in with the "Dashcam Crowd", as I'm very pro-police & long for the "old days" myself when a beat Cop could walk his beat & swing a Billie Club on a lanyard like an Artist using a paint brush---a real talent! Good Police work means using discretion, and the current situation of arresting grade schoolers for making idle threats & chewing pop tarts into hand guns is sad at best. Brian didn't take the plea because a felony conviction meant he'd never get permission to visit his son. Let that sink in. The guy was trying to do right by his son & not merely walk-away. You & I agree on the amount of daily uncharged transportations of HP rounds outside of the technical EXEMPTIONS. We've all done it at some point. And yes most of us don't do other stupid stuff (like tell our mother we're suicidal) to draw attention to ourselves so life goes on w/o any Po-Po interaction. As to the Judge's disbarment, I only repeated what I read from what I thought was a trusted news source (NJ.com). I do remember that there was a stink about it in specific, and the same Judge had other "baggage" as you mentioned. So if my source is wrong, thanks for the correction! Obama & Michelle were both disbarred, but that didn't stop them from visiting 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. for 8 YEARS We agree on how Morely got himself into trouble regarding the moving EXEMPTION. Aitken's defense was outlined in the book he wrote & presented by Lou Nappen, Evan's brother. I loaned my copy to someone, so I can't quote from it. Nappen thought he had it in the bag, and the Jury kept asking for transcripts of EXEMPTIONS, and the Judge decided at some point to instruct the Jury to "just get on with it"...and in so doing denied the Jury the evidence they needed for an acquittal.... which then led to his release after every paper in the state carried the story. The proof Aitken had he was moving came from testimony by folks that loaned him their couch. Eyewitness testimony that he was living out of his car & flopping on couches. As for the magazine charge, yep he had it/them, and that's where things get "gray" instead of "Lilly-white". You can bet that Nappen's cross is in the history books on that one & every County Prosecutor for all 21 Counties in NJ were notified to have their Detectives FUNCTION-FIRE standard capacity mags before going to trial . We agree what Aitken did shouldn't be illegal. We AGREE. And you're right, this is NJ, which is why the Newbies on this forum are "so shit-scared of their own shadows"! I don't ever hope for an attempted prosecution of a complete "Lilly-White" NJ gun law victim, cause by then we as a society will be too far gone. Gang Bangers sellin' guns on the street every day that KILL the innocent do less time than a guy living out of his car who's stupid enough & upset enough to tell his mom his mental state AND have standard capacity mags & EVIL hollow points floating-around in his LOCKED trunk harming NO ONE. I'm not a "supporter" & never gave him a dime. I just report the facts as I see 'em. If I'd have been on that Jury, the other 11 members would have gotten a legal lesson in Jury Nullification

Cool, another gun on my don't want to buy list. For some reason that list is much smaller than my want to buy list.

But the thought process of someone (NJ Legislature & Anti-Firearms) who thinks of themselves as savior is EXACTLY same as "just because you can doesnt mean you should". Except, its a step further, because they "know" people are idiots and cannot use common sense. And thats where this whole thing is going. Legislation. Suggesting to someone and then leaving it up to them is different from piling on what is an obvious attempt to bring on legislation barring firearms. Lets hope this doesnt turn into "others making decision for me/us". For now, SAF made a simple comment "discouraging the practice" and they are right in doing so.

it looks like a glock...

Whoa there. The ability to make a mature and pragmatic decision on whether or not to carry a firearm to a particular event/destination/etc... i.e.: a Just because you can doesn't mean you should type decision - is a FAR cry from "justifiable need" laws. One is a personal choice made by you after identifying aggravating and mitigating factors and coming to a logical decision. You make these decision every day all day - example: You are having a party at your house and all your friends are coming over. You are going to be drinking a lot. Do you wear a gun on your hip - either OC or CCW? Why or why not? You can, but should you? The other is a decision made for you by others.

i've used one but now it sits in the safe, too heavy and way slower to obtain targets, now i just run the reddot. can't imagine taking any practical shot that a 3x magnifier would make the difference. rather use another tool altogether for bench/longer distances.

From what I recall, Paula Dow (Christie's first AG) "reinterpreted" our laws to say that an FPID card must be presented in person in order to buy a firearm (non handgun), so in her opinion it was illegal to ship direct to the buyer. This is nonsense, the law only says the buyer must have and "exhibit" their FPID card. I think the CMP didn't want to have a couple of NJ Senators trying to revisit Bill Clinton's ambition to put them out of business, so they agreed to ship only to dealers.;

Bob, sorry to hear about this incident. OBR&PC is rated for .50 BMG at the outdoor range. I've shot 82A-1's there every-so-often (a coupla friends of mine have them---and one guy has THICK static steel targets he routinely engages with his Barrett). I can guest-in up to 3 people at once, NOT an entire entourage, but it has to be done during the DAY, not at night. If I can be of any help in the future, keep me in mind Rosey

If you carry regularly and happen to decide to go to a rally that is different from arming up to attend the rally. One is just a thing you do. The other is just being provocative.

Because you grew up watching TMNT?

aimpoint t2 with aimpoint 6x magnifier in a flipmount complete is the cat's tits. the aimpoint 6x is expensive, but it's bulletproof and has outstanding glass. well worth it to me and for my money superior to an acog as it's a hell of a lot more versatile. 1-6x on demand, the flipmount flips out of the way AND you can twist the mag completely off when you just want to run an ultralight 1x red dot setup. also very useful if you have multiple red dot setups you'd like to use the magnifier with. just buy an additional twist base and off you go i'm probably going to take advantage of the eotech sale and add one to the lineup. just need an extra twist base and i'll have that at 1-6x as well

You do realize that the police have no legal obligation to protect you. They are not there to serve and protect as most people think. You could just be at a political rally and be attacked violently because someone does not like what you stand for. Not everyone at a political rally is a nazi.

This

I'm not discounting your argument in theory... but I'm just asking, pragmatically speaking, when these open-carry militia members make a conscious choice to put themselves in situations where they get linked in the press to Nazis and the KKK, is that really the best way to promote open-carry or the 2A in general? Don't they realize those kinds of protests are power kegs just looking for a match? Don't they realize that the social and political "blowback" of a shooting would be so devastating that it would undermine the very things they claim to support? Like it or not, whatever they do and whatever accidents or problems occur will reflect on all gun owners. I think once they realized who were the ugly players arranging the Charlottesville protest, they should have just walked away. Who knows? Maybe it would have forced the local politicians/police to handle things better than they did. Instead, these militia people are throwing themselves into situations that can go bad a thousand different ways - and taking those risks for what? For a bunch of white supremacists? Seriously? Just because they have the RIGHT to do it, doesn't make it wise strategy. That's all I'm saying.

They can accomodate a .50 BMG.... Once...

If it's a nuffin burger, no traction, no chance, no shot, not even an underdog.... then why sooo much attention in opposition? look for the man with 1 red shoe