FID and Long Gun "Carry"

[JeepGunner 109]

Can someone explain how the carry of unloaded long guns (with FID) has changed with all the new legislation related to CCW?

I believe the sensitive places prohibition applies to long guns now.  Is this correct and were the rules regarding transport of rifles changed?

Thanks for any input.  It's exhausting trying to remain a law abiding gun owner in this state. 

[SmokenClay 21]

There was never any carry of long guns that I'm aware of.  I doubt anyone would be able to qualify with a long gun for CCW being difficult to holster and all

[JeepGunner 109]

39 minutes ago, SmokenClay said:

There was never any carry of long guns that I'm aware of.  I doubt anyone would be able to qualify with a long gun for CCW being difficult to holster and all

Technically, but not practically, you could carry a long gun anywhere as long as it was 1. unloaded and 2. you possessed a FID.

[JohnnyB 4,326]

4 minutes ago, JeepGunner said:

Technically, but not practically, you could carry a long gun anywhere as long as it was 1. unloaded and 2. you possessed a FID.

Technically by law, you could.  You could also be shot by the first COP that sees you!

[SmokenClay 21]

Just now, JohnnyB said:

Technically by law, you could.  You could also be shot by the first COP that sees you!

That would be 'open' carry which would still be allowed for hunting purposes.  The OP questioned relation to CCW which I don't think include long guns so I'm thinking original long gun transport rules apply.

[JeepGunner 109]

3 minutes ago, SmokenClay said:

That would be 'open' carry which would still be allowed for hunting purposes.  The OP questioned relation to CCW which I don't think include long guns so I'm thinking original long gun transport rules apply.

Just to be clear, the CCW laws affected long guns as the recent carry killer laws made no distinction between long guns and handguns, probably intentionally.  (I am not asking for a CCW for a long gun as obviously that is not a thing.)

[JohnnyB 4,326]

If I'm not mistaken, and I have multiple state's CCWs. CCW always refers to a handgun only.  The fact that the New Jersey permit says "PERMIT TO CARRY A HANDGUN" seems obvious to me that long guns do not have anything to do with a permit to carry.  The FID covers long guns!

[JeepGunner 109]

You guys are going to make me call Nappen.

[SmokenClay 21]

Jeep I am trying to find an answer for you... fumbling through 2C:39 & 2C:58

You do have a valid question as this was also my understanding that openly carrying an unloaded long gun was valid with FID.  They did kill 'open carry' but I'm assuming that only relates to CCW (handgun)

The sensitive places did exist before all these changes they just expanded upon them.

I'm also checking bill 4769 if it mentions long guns.

[JeepGunner 109]

13 minutes ago, SmokenClay said:

Jeep I am trying to find an answer for you... fumbling through 2C:39 & 2C:58

You do have a valid question as this was also my understanding that openly carrying an unloaded long gun was valid with FID.  They did kill 'open carry' but I'm assuming that only relates to CCW (handgun)

The sensitive places did exist before all these changes they just expanded upon them.

I'm also checking bill 4769 if it mentions long guns.

Thanks, I appreciate any input.  I'm more concerned with any possible transportation changes. I hope they didn't weaken the FID and now expect long guns to be from home to range with no stops like handguns.

[JohnnyB 4,326]

IANAL but I am certain that long gun transport laws have not changed in any way!  

[Vdep217 63]

2 minutes ago, JohnnyB said:

IANAL but I am certain that long gun transport laws have not changed in any way!  

Unless you possess a permit to carry.  Than even if you are not carrying at the time you must disclose there are firearms in car. If stopped

[SmokenClay 21]

I don't think this answers your question entirely but in A4769 they are looking to amend N.J.S.2C:39-6 is amended to read as follows:

 f.     Nothing in subsections b., c., and d. of N.J.S.2C:39-5 shall be construed to prevent:

     (1) A member of any rifle or pistol club organized in accordance with the rules prescribed by the National Board for the Promotion of Rifle Practice, in going to or from a place of target practice, carrying firearms necessary for target practice, provided that the club has filed a copy of its charter with the superintendent and annually submits a list of its members to the superintendent and provided further that the firearms are carried in the manner specified in subsection g. of this section;

     (2) A person carrying a firearm or knife in the woods or fields or upon the waters of this State for the purpose of hunting, target practice or fishing, provided that the firearm or knife is legal and appropriate for hunting or fishing purposes in this State and the person has in the person's possession a valid hunting license, or, with respect to fresh water fishing, a valid fishing license;

     (3) A person transporting any firearm or knife while traveling:

     (a) Directly to or from any place for the purpose of hunting or fishing, provided the person has in the person's possession a valid hunting or fishing license; or

     (b) Directly to or from any target range, or other authorized place for the purpose of practice, match, target, trap or skeet shooting exhibitions, provided in all cases that during the course of the travel all firearms are carried in the manner specified in subsection g. of this section and the person has complied with all the provisions and requirements of Title 23 of the Revised Statutes and any amendments thereto and all rules and regulations promulgated thereunder; or

     (c) In the case of a firearm, directly to or from any exhibition or display of firearms which is sponsored by any law enforcement agency, any rifle or pistol club, or any firearms collectors club, for the purpose of displaying the firearms to the public or to the members of the organization or club, provided, however, that not less than 30 days prior to the exhibition or display, notice of the exhibition or display shall be given to the Superintendent of the State Police by the sponsoring organization or club, and the sponsor has complied with any reasonable safety regulations the superintendent may promulgate.  Any firearms transported pursuant to this section shall be transported in the manner specified in subsection g. of this section;

[JohnnyB 4,326]

3 minutes ago, Vdep217 said:

Unless you possess a permit to carry.  Than even if you are not carrying at the time you must disclose there are firearms in car. If stopped

I have a NJ permit to carry! I will disclose to any officer, if I am approached, that I have a CCW and I have a handgun in my possession. If I am not carrying at that time, I have nothing to disclose!

If I "ONLY" have long guns , unloaded in my trunk, I will NOT disclose, but will not lie if asked if I am in possession of any firearms.

@High Exposure I could use a little help here!

[Vdep217 63]

1 minute ago, JohnnyB said:

I have a NJ permit to carry! I will disclose to any officer, if I am approached, that I have a CCW and I have a handgun in my possession. If I am not carrying at that time, I have nothing to disclose!

If I "ONLY" have long guns , unloaded in my trunk, I will NOT disclose, but will not lie if asked if I am in possession of any firearms.

@High Exposure I could use a little help here!

The way the new law was written if you have a carry permit you must disclose I'd firearms are in the car even if you are not actively carrying 

[JohnnyB 4,326]

The problem is, in the PRNJ, we tend to read things into the law that are not there!  Paranoia and Evan Nappen are some of the things feed this paranoia! 

[maintenanceguy 510]

I'm not sure where I got this picture, maybe on this forum.  My father's FID card included the same language at the bottom.  It was removed from FID cards 50ish years ago.  I don't think there was a change in law, they just stopped reminding everyone what the law allows.

 

[Old Glock guy 1,127]

I have always found this discussion of keeping long guns at hand to be interesting.  In the past, I have at times kept an unloaded shotgun in the back of my car.  With shells close by, I've thought that I could load a few and be ready to go in a few seconds.  I have heard Nappen say that while it is technically illegal to load a firearm, under "exigent circumstances" it could be OK (like in Uvalde).  The biggest problem with having one available at all times is that one must be careful about where to travel, so avoiding schools and government buildings, and leaving the state. 

Another intriguing possibility is to have loaded mags near a rifle or carbine, so one could pop one in and be up and running in seconds.  Any opinions on the legality of that?

[father-of-three 243]

1 hour ago, Old Glock guy said:

I have always found this discussion of keeping long guns at hand to be interesting.  In the past, I have at times kept an unloaded shotgun in the back of my car.  With shells close by, I've thought that I could load a few and be ready to go in a few seconds.  I have heard Nappen say that while it is technically illegal to load a firearm, under "exigent circumstances" it could be OK (like in Uvalde).  The biggest problem with having one available at all times is that one must be careful about where to travel, so avoiding schools and government buildings, and leaving the state. 

Another intriguing possibility is to have loaded mags near a rifle or carbine, so one could pop one in and be up and running in seconds.  Any opinions on the legality of that?

I dont think there is any legislative details on how close or far the ammo can be from  the longarm.

[Mr.Stu 1,922]

The issue is that the prohibited places listed in the A4769 apply to all firearms, not just handguns. Outside of those areas, your FPIC has the same value as it did previously.

2C:58-4.6 Prohibited areas, carrying, firearms, destructive device.

   7.   Places where the carrying of a firearm or destructive device is prohibited.
 
   a.   Except as otherwise provided in this section and in the case of a brief, incidental entry onto property, which shall be deemed a de minimis infraction within the contemplation of N.J.S.2C:2-11, it shall be a crime of the third degree for any person, other than a person lawfully carrying a firearm within the authorized scope of an exemption set forth in N.J.S.2C:39-6, to knowingly carry a firearm as defined in subsection f. of N.J.S.2C:39-1 and a crime of the second degree to knowingly possess a destructive device as defined in subsection c. of N.J.S.2C:39-1 in any of the following places, including in or upon any part of the buildings, grounds, or parking area of:

 

2C:39-1 Definitions.

   2C:39-1. Definitions. The following definitions apply to this chapter and to chapter 58:

... 

f.   "Firearm" means any handgun, rifle, shotgun, machine gun, automatic or semi-automatic rifle, or any gun, device or instrument in the nature of a weapon from which may be fired or ejected any solid projectable ball, slug, pellet, missile or bullet, or any gas, vapor or other noxious thing, by means of a cartridge or shell or by the action of an explosive or the igniting of flammable or explosive substances. It shall also include, without limitation, any firearm which is in the nature of an air gun, spring gun or pistol or other weapon of a similar nature in which the propelling force is a spring, elastic band, carbon dioxide, compressed or other gas or vapor, air or compressed air, or is ignited by compressed air, and ejecting a bullet or missile smaller than three-eighths of an inch in diameter, with sufficient force to injure a person.

[Grima Squeakersen 482]

OT, but that 3/8" diameter limitation is kind of intriguing. Seems to imply that if someone produced CO2 rifle for larger projectiles (e.g., 10mm), it would be exempt...

[SmokenClay 21]

7 minutes ago, Grima Squeakersen said:

OT, but that 3/8" diameter limitation is kind of intriguing. Seems to imply that if someone produced CO2 rifle for larger projectiles (e.g., 10mm), it would be exempt...

Ooh that puts the Hammer higher on my want list:

https://www.umarexusa.com/umarex-hammer-50-cal-air-rifle-spotlight

[Grima Squeakersen 482]

17 minutes ago, SmokenClay said:

Ooh that puts the Hammer higher on my want list:

https://www.umarexusa.com/umarex-hammer-50-cal-air-rifle-spotlight

I found this thread because I have a groundhog problem. I intend to use a Havahart trap to capture, but thinking about getting an air rifle to dispatch it so that I don't need to go to the trouble and risk of relocating the critter. I think the Hammer is very interesting, but it might be a bit of overkill for this application I'd use a body grip kill trap on it directly, but I don't want to put my dog or a couple of neighborood cats at risk.

[ESB 247]

On 8/2/2023 at 8:11 PM, SmokenClay said:

That would be 'open' carry which would still be allowed for hunting purposes.  The OP questioned relation to CCW which I don't think include long guns so I'm thinking original long gun transport rules apply.

I think the change that effects this is that if you have a CCW, if you get pulled over you MUST let the officer know if you have any guns (handguns or long guns) in the car, regardless if you are concealed carrying at the time.  

Ie, someone WITHOUT a CCW permit is going to the range with some guns stored properly in the trunk.  If he gets pulled over, he does NOT have to tell the officer he has any guns in the car.  

If someone who holds a CCW permit is on their way to the range, with ALL guns stored unloaded properly in the trunk and is not currently concealed carrying, would still have to tell the officer about the guns in the car.  

 

[ESB 247]

23 hours ago, Grima Squeakersen said:

OT, but that 3/8" diameter limitation is kind of intriguing. Seems to imply that if someone produced CO2 rifle for larger projectiles (e.g., 10mm), it would be exempt...

I think this is for paintball guns to not be considered firearms in NJ.  .68 Cal is standard size paintball, but can be as small as .40 cal.   It also allows for Airsoft guns to not be considered firearms as they shoot hollow rubber BB's.