Chatham cop leaves loaded .45 on sidewalk

[223lover 9]

In yesterday's Daily Record

 

Officials: Chatham cop,

drunk and off-duty, left

loaded gun out on sidewalk

 

By PEGGY WRIGHT

[tony357 386]

someone must have slipped a roofy in his coffee at the donut shop..

[matty 810]

So why isn't this guy in jail or charged? Is possession of a gun whilst intoxicated an offense?

[Maksim 1,504]

Well, if One gun a month was around last year, then no doubt there would be no straw purchases, and this cop would never have left his backpack with a loaded gun on someone front porch while going out to get bombed at the bar.

 

But we should thank him for supporting the local economy. =P

 

[maideneddie 35]

What else is there to say but :doh:

[njpilot 671]

The guy should lose his job!!!

[GoNRA 12]

yeah it's hard to argue negligance of the law when your a cop

[coldsolderjoint 84]

So assuming everything is true..

 

what would the possible charges be?

 

He has a NJ CCW, so most gun charges would not be applicable right?

 

Leaving a loaded gun within access of a minor?

 

Some sort of endangerment law?

[djg0770 481]

I don't know if I would have turned that backpack in... :twisted:

[Old School 611]

So why isn't this guy in jail or charged? Is possession of a gun whilst intoxicated an offense?

 

 

How about the endangering a minor law?

[tony357 386]

The guy who found that could have played cop for a day.. good thing the finder was on the up and up..

probably a legal firearms owner..

[Malsua 1,422]

"There is no indication he is not able to continue on

the job,"

 

Anyone else think they could leave a loaded handgun laying about and be ABLE to continue on the job? It's tough to work unless you get out on bail.

[jermz1987 243]

I don't know if I would have turned that backpack in... :twisted:

 

+1 :twisted:

[Guest]

I would have kept that backpack and let the cop shit his pants wondering what the hell happened...

[rscalzo 3]

Is possession of a gun whilst intoxicated an offense?

 

Stupid but not an offense. If that were the case, how many who carry in any establishment and drink would be in violation. Drinking while in possession of a firearm is overwhelmingly stupid but there are enough laws to cover misuse of a firearm.

 

Are you in favor of more laws governing firearm?

 

what would the possible charges be?

The charges will be internal. Conduct Unbecoming which cover a wide area. The AG's policy on Internal Affairs is extensive and leaves little in the way of gray area. Steps must be followed in order within the set time frames. As it is a Internal Affairs, nothing can be disclosed while the case is active.

 

At the very least, the guy will be without a paycheck for some time. Case law is extensive in the area of discipline so much will be based on any past history or the individual.

 

This is one of the main reasons I never recommend the belly packs that were popular a while back and used to carry a handgun.

 

Leaving a loaded gun within access of a minor?

Where was the minor? If you file a charge that requires a minor to be involved, the one main facet of that case will be to show that there was a minor involved. In this case there was none.

 

It's hard to make a informed opinion of this type of action but in my experience, when something of this nature happens it usually isn't the first indication of a problem. But who knows what has happened in his background to cause this type of behavior.

 

Somewhat related, I saw someone drive away with a SIG handgun box on the roof of their car. The box flew off a few hundred feet down the road. thankfully, we picked it up and held on until the member realized it. I've found some who left guns on our indoor range. Thankfully I have enough that I don't need more.

[coldsolderjoint 84]

Is possession of a gun whilst intoxicated an offense?

Are you in favor of more laws governing firearm?

 

No, I was just asking what, if any Criminal charges would be applicable.

 

Somewhat related, I saw someone drive away with a SIG handgun box on the roof of their car. The box flew off a few hundred feet down the road. thankfully, we picked it up and held on until the member realized it. I've found some who left guns on our indoor range. Thankfully I have enough that I don't need more.

 

Apparently people leave stuff at the range all the time at our range. When Ray's was still open, I saw a guy shoot maybe 50 rounds from a .22 rifle, put it in a case and stand it against the wall. Then he proceeded to shoot his handguns and then leave with the case still standing against the wall.

[rscalzo 3]

if any Criminal charges would be applicable.

 

Probably none. But you can make stupidity a criminal offense. Sadly this fits the guy. His lack of responsibility is alarming. But ass I said, the courts mandate progressive discipline to a point. Even that is based on many areas and I doubt anyone would be interested in reading the multi-hundred page reference document issued by AG's office.

 

I'd be hard pressed to say what I would do in this case without knowing the facts. A uniformed decision is usually a stupid one.

[Guest]

I would have kept the gun and listed it on gunbroker.com

I have no sympathies for this as I am not even allowed to carry a gun that I would NEVER leave anywhere in this state.

The hypocrisy IS GLARING and this type of behavior unfortunatley will be tolerated, and since the cop will be without a paycheck for a bit, keep an eye out for some type of robbery taking place in the next couple of weeks...

I get so mad over this because alot of us on here are better trained than cops, ran into and out of cities that were plinking galleries....so this type of behavior should not be tolerated at all, and this guy would be canned in my world, or at least his job would be INDOORS....

[rscalzo 3]

I would have kept the gun and listed it on gunbroker.com

 

Then you would be facing one or more criminal charges based on current NJ law relating to found items. Not to mention the fact you would be transferring a firearm most likely in the NCIC database as Lost/Stolen. Whatever you received for such an item would not begin to cover the legal fees involved.

 

keep an eye out for some type of robbery taking place in the next couple of weeks...

That makes no sense.

 

this guy would be canned in my world

In your employment your employer would terminate you for losing a privately owned firearm?

 

I have no sympathies for this

So your rush to judgment without so much as a single fact in this case? So let's say that this Sgt. (probably in his 30's) recently returned from his third tour in the Middle East where he lost some members of his unit. The alcoholic reaction, not uncommon isn't taken into consideration even if he had not prior incidents? As you mention hypocritical, making a judgment without any facts seems a bit ODD.

 

As afr as training, I've seen so many stupid incidents involving firearms and private owners that I won't bother listing them. OK, maybe the rocket scientist that left four handguns in the back of his CJ in a mall parking lot with the soft top on...and then was surprised when they were gone when he returned.

 

Or just this week..

http://www.wmur.com/news/22826057/detail.html

 

http://www.unionleader.com/article.aspx ... 2a3c6a4fb2

 

http://www.fosters.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ar ... /906289987

 

Stupid can be found anywhere.

[Guest]

I would have kept the gun and listed it on gunbroker.com

 

Then you would be facing one or more criminal charges based on current NJ law relating to found items. Not to mention the fact you would be transferring a firearm most likely in the NCIC database as Lost/Stolen. Whatever you received for such an item would not begin to cover the legal fees involved.

 

keep an eye out for some type of robbery taking place in the next couple of weeks...

That makes no sense.

 

this guy would be canned in my world

In your employment your employer would terminate you for losing a privately owned firearm?

 

I have no sympathies for this

So your rush to judgment without so much as a single fact in this case? So let's say that this Sgt. (probably in his 30's) recently returned from his third tour in the Middle East where he lost some members of his unit. The alcoholic reaction, not uncommon isn't taken into consideration even if he had not prior incidents? As you mention hypocritical, making a judgment without any facts seems a bit ODD.

 

As afr as training, I've seen so many stupid incidents involving firearms and private owners that I won't bother listing them. OK, maybe the rocket scientist that left four handguns in the back of his CJ in a mall parking lot with the soft top on...and then was surprised when they were gone when he returned.

 

Or just this week..

http://www.wmur.com/news/22826057/detail.html

 

http://www.unionleader.com/article.aspx ... 2a3c6a4fb2

 

http://www.fosters.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ar ... /906289987

 

Stupid can be found anywhere.

 

First of all, let me point out sarcasam, and knowledge of the law. I was kidding when I said I would sell it on GB. This is the web and we can have fun at others misfortune. Was this you? I know odd reactions when I see them. Did you hear about the cops who robbed the warehouse in Carlstadt? What about the cops who robbed the Crack house in Lyndhurst? What about the cops in NYC who robbed that couple in a home invasion on LI? What do you mean this makes no sense?

I am not trying to have a pissing match here, but I served in the USMC in the 26th MEU from 1992-2000. I went to Sarajevo and a couple of other 'places' and got 'flack' and saw men die as well. I am not saying anything about the MORONS who leave guns laying around after a night of drinking. WE ALL KNOW MORONS DO THESE THINGS. I am saying how this is not even possible for me as a citizen to even DO! Why would a cop be so irresponsible? YOU NEVER LEAVE YOUR WEAPON ANYWHERE BUT ON YOUR SIDE, and that's SOP, PROTOCOL, STANDARD, get it?

[rscalzo 3]

I am saying how this is not even possible for me as a citizen to even DO

 

Sad to say it is because I've seen it first hand. As I said, stupidity isn't a crime.

 

This is the web and we can have fun at others misfortune

 

What humor could you possibly find in others misfortune? It just never struck me as a great topic of humor. A good friend lost the use of three out of his four limbs due to a IED blowing up under his Humvee a few years back during his tour. Now is that funny? A good friend and one of my Patrol Sgts. lost two of his people on his second tour. Funny?

 

Misfortune is a riot...until you are on the receiving end...then it stops being funny. Everyone is real quick to judge about those things they know nothing about. Until I know abot why thias individual chose to drink himself into that condition I reserve judgment.

 

YOU NEVER LEAVE YOUR WEAPON ANYWHERE BUT ON YOUR SIDE, and that's SOP, PROTOCOL, STANDARD, get it?

 

For who? By your standards anyone who uses a fanny pack or a handgun concealed in a handbag would be in violation? Unfortunately you are wrong and obviously do not know the law. Maybe you can point out this requirement in the law. Common sense and legal requirement isn't the same.

 

WE ALL KNOW MORONS DO THESE THINGS

 

Yet again you rush to judgment with no background information. Is this how you make all your decisions? There are no mitigating factors at all. Your reasoning lacks any ability to factor in environmental factors at all as apparently everything is black and white. Those guys coming back with physiological problems are just faking it, right? No factors to look into except what's facing you.

 

Unfortunately, life isn't black and white. A standard such as that would make functioning in the real world difficult or impossible.

[Guest]

I am saying how this is not even possible for me as a citizen to even DO

 

Sad to say it is because I've seen it first hand. As I said, stupidity isn't a crime.

 

This is the web and we can have fun at others misfortune

 

What humor could you possibly find in others misfortune? It just never struck me as a great topic of humor. A good friend lost the use of three out of his four limbs due to a IED blowing up under his Humvee a few years back during his tour. Now is that funny? A good friend and one of my Patrol Sgts. lost two of his people on his second tour. Funny?

 

Misfortune is a riot...until you are on the receiving end...then it stops being funny. Everyone is real quick to judge about those things they know nothing about. Until I know abot why thias individual chose to drink himself into that condition I reserve judgment.

 

YOU NEVER LEAVE YOUR WEAPON ANYWHERE BUT ON YOUR SIDE, and that's SOP, PROTOCOL, STANDARD, get it?

 

For who? By your standards anyone who uses a fanny pack or a handgun concealed in a handbag would be in violation? Unfortunately you are wrong and obviously do not know the law. Maybe you can point out this requirement in the law. Common sense and legal requirement isn't the same.

 

WE ALL KNOW MORONS DO THESE THINGS

 

Yet again you rush to judgment with no background information. Is this how you make all your decisions? There are no mitigating factors at all. Your reasoning lacks any ability to factor in environmental factors at all as apparently everything is black and white. Those guys coming back with physiological problems are just faking it, right? No factors to look into except what's facing you.

 

Unfortunately, life isn't black and white. A standard such as that would make functioning in the real world difficult or impossible.

 

I could share a few stories about people getting blown up. I am sure Baghdad was no picnic, but you should have been there for Bosnia...or Sudan...but what do I know?

I really dont think there is any rush to judgement unless you are defending morons, but again, I am on the web, and I didnt know I was going to run into 'internet cop' who defends officers who drink and leave weapons laying around on the crime riddled streets of NJ then suggests I know nothing about the twists and turns of life... Since you are here to censor my definitiion of humor, then humor me this....Why did a cop leave a loaded .45 in a backpack on the streets? Whats wrong with the higher standard for officers? Where would you get that I make all decisions like this? Was this you that left the gun in the backpack? taking it pretty personally I would say.

Since I am on the web, and on a forum commenting, I will leave my comments about how I feel, and I MAY EVEN RESERVE JUDGEMENT. You are free to do the same, but trying to shut down the conversation about why? When YOU DONT EVEN KNOW THE REASON is silly on your part, and shows a lack of RESPECT of opinions and YES EVEN JUDGEMENTS OF OTHERS. This guy is not worried about me or you, and what we have to say on a forum on the web, he has bigger issues to deal with. PTSD, maybe he saw someone get blown up. In war, Ive seen many screwed up things, that have left me questioning humanity and the like.

What the hell do I know? I never said it was in the law, but I am pretty sure you can point me to where it says in the law where it is a crime to leave a loaded .45 in a backpack that you forgot on the street after a night of drinking. Your defense of this action is making me think more cops do this, and that is scary.

Its a standard that a cop should leave a .45 in a backpack, but on the street, after a night of drinking. What about a fanny pack?

Are you expecting me to believe that?

To point out, since we are going toe for toe, I never said in a fanny pack or a backpack would be a violation, but leaving it in a backpack on a street is. OK, we have that clear, now for you to tell me that life is not black and white is a public service, and I thank you. I am sure we could both draw on collective experience to talk more about how life is not black and white, OK, we have that clear.

My question. Did you ever serve in our armed forces? If so, where?

[DevsAdvocate 112]

I guess the big issue here is the divide between law enforcement and civilians and the different level of responsibility given to both. While the laws and policy of the State are outside the control of the police, it's a smack in the face to the responsible citizenry who only want equal treatment.

 

Cops can carry off duty, yet we can not. When they abuse that privilege through negligence or conscious act, it shows a dereliction of duty on behalf of those sworn to protect us, and those who are supposed to be leading by example.

 

This officer is probably not a bad guy, and what he did was stupid. But don't take your anger at state policies out on him. Take it out on the folks who make our stupid laws.

[bbk 188]

I guess the big issue here is the divide between law enforcement and civilians and the different level of responsibility given to both. While the laws and policy of the State are outside the control of the police, it's a smack in the face to the responsible citizenry who only want equal treatment.

 

Cops can carry off duty, yet we can not. When they abuse that privilege through negligence or conscious act, it shows a dereliction of duty on behalf of those sworn to protect us, and those who are supposed to be leading by example.

 

This officer is probably not a bad guy, and what he did was stupid. But don't take your anger at state policies out on him. Take it out on the folks who make our stupid laws.

Exactly what I was thinking, well said, Devs.

[rscalzo 3]

shows a dereliction of duty

And now we are back to square one, handling the issue in a internal affairs investigation. Can you point to this offense in the state law? No, because it isn't there. It is the charge used when one is charged by the department.

 

I find it odd that so many find it outrageous that this happened, which it is, yet had NJ groups opposed legislation that would have made it a criminal offense, yet that was even deleted.

http://www.njleg.state.nj.us/2006/Bills ... 934_R1.PDF

 

So is a lost firearm a serious issue or not? Is it serious when it only happens to someone else? A civilian would be responsible for at best a five hundred dollar fine. This guys fine could amount to several thousand.

 

Equal treatment?

[Springfield1911 22]

I wish I had come across that gun. .45 added to the collection.

[DevsAdvocate 112]

shows a dereliction of duty

And now we are back to square one, handling the issue in a internal affairs investigation. Can you point to this offense in the state law? No, because it isn't there. It is the charge used when one is charged by the department.

 

I find it odd that so many find it outrageous that this happened, which it is, yet had NJ groups opposed legislation that would have made it a criminal offense, yet that was even deleted.

http://www.njleg.state.nj.us/2006/Bills ... 934_R1.PDF

 

So is a lost firearm a serious issue or not? Is it serious when it only happens to someone else? A civilian would be responsible for at best a five hundred dollar fine. This guys fine could amount to several thousand.

 

Equal treatment?

 

By this I meant in regards to police leading by example. They are not only on the hook to enforce the laws, but should make it a point to follow them better than anyone else. Maybe I used the wrong term here... sorry. But it can be difficult for the civilian population to respect the police forces if they themselves are considered above the law.

 

As for the difference in fines between a civilian and this police officer... given the circumstances, the civilian may be on the hook for more than a few hundred dollars. That is, if they were found to have left a gun in a backpack on the street after a heavy night of drinking.

 

Does this not violate (for us) the many laws regarding the transport of firearms in this state? Lord help the person who does this and has hollowpoints in their backpack.

[DevsAdvocate 112]

I wish I had come across that gun. .45 added to the collection.

 

Don't be silly. You would've called the police.

[Springfield1911 22]

Nah. I would call the state police. Obviously the Chatham police cant hold on to their weapons.

[GoNRA 12]

cops will always back cops no matter what the condition, they may disagree with them to a certain extent, but they will always back there brothers.

 

That is kinda a given, it's cool and I know how it is... when your a cop, it's hard to find civilians to hang out with... lol most of em probably have a record of some sort ..

 

So I dunno if I was a cop, looking out for another cop, I would expect civilians to take my slanted views with a grain of salt and other cops to back me.. Please dont get mad at the guy for looking after their own..

 

Just how it is, no offense, but that's how the cookie crumbles..