SAF and ANJRPC files suit against the state of NJ!

[ChrisJM981 924]

Well I guess I can scrap my letter to Gov. Christie about wedging a lawsuit up NJ's butt as SAF beat me too it. IMO the ANJRPC is just along for the ride as local representation. As promised (as far as someone filing a lawsuit against NJ) I will make a sizable donation to the plaintiff (SAF). Time to order a really nice bull hide belt and a Crossbreed holster.

 

The day of redemption is at hand!! REPENT!!! And thou shalt be saved.

-Ace Ventura

[Guest HuntingPaper]

Finally!!!!

Today is a good day

 

PD. I just joined SAF

[EngineerJet 191]

nra may be "involved" but did they spear head this or just trying to get a piece of the action like mcdonald? if i am wrong then i will concede but to me it looks like saf is doing the heavy lifting lately.

[NJCSD 0]

I will make a sizable donation to the plaintiff (SAF). Time to order a really nice bull hide belt and a Crossbreed holster.

-Ace Ventura

Stay tuned for announcements from NJCSD on further developments and ways to become directly involved in helping this case and others move forward.

[lunker 274]

He'll be on Ask the Governor tonight on NJ101.5. You could try to get ahold of him there. Good luck though.

 

I don't see them approving anu firearms related calls.

Obviously, you will need to tell the call screener you want to talk about something else. It wouldn't hurt to make it seem like you're a big fan of the property tax cap Christie got through, and you want to talk about that..

[Downr@nge 22]

I told you guys in another thread that I had a feeling that this was gonna happen sooner rather than later! I'm joining BOTH within the next few weeks! There was a YouTube vid where Alan Gura was speaking about how they don't speak about any plans on litigation before it has been done officially. With almost NO chatter from the SAF and NJ, you had to know something was in the works. Man, I sure do hope we win!

[intercooler 41]

I am proud of my fellow sussex county people for standing up...BOTH had "justifiable needs" and I just cannot understand why they were denied...

[vjf915 456]

I live 10 minutes outside of Trenton, and often travel through the area. To me, that is a justifiable need....even though I shouldnt even need to explain that

 

Joined both organizations.

[NJ609 22]

I live in NJ. Which happens to be in the USA.

 

That's all the "justifiable need" ANY citizen should require.

[kenw 293]

And in other news...

 

[cubflyer50 1]

As you can see in the suit, it is to have the justifiable need' removed completely because it it unconstitutional. This isn't a suit just for the plaintiffs, this is for EVERY law abiding citizen of NJ. The plaintiffs they describe not meeting 'justifiable need' just shows that NO ONE is issued a permit. Be patient, they know what they're doing. It is for EVERY LAW ABIDING CITIZEN....

[kenw 293]

SAF has received a donation (not a huge one, but something) from The New Jersey Recreational Shooting Network.

[lunker 274]

SAF has received a donation (not a huge one, but something) from The New Jersey Recreational Shooting Network.

 

I just became a lifetime member about a week ago. It cost $150. Money well spent!

[JimmyAGR 54]

I just read the complaint, and if we had common sense in this state it would be a slam dunk. Hopefully there is a light at the end of the tunnel. I know I have been smiling since I read about this suit. Could this mean firearm freedom in NJ? No more stupid AWB, 15 round limit, getting happy just thinking of the possibilities. Ohh to hope and dream.

[EchoMirage 137]

while its a step, dont get your hopes up. never underestimate the power of the government to fyck over the common citizen. especially the NJ gov. when it comes to guns. hope for the best, prepare for the worst.

[BRN169 6]

I just read the complaint, and if we had common sense in this state it would be a slam dunk. Hopefully there is a light at the end of the tunnel. I know I have been smiling since I read about this suit. Could this mean firearm freedom in NJ? No more stupid AWB, 15 round limit, getting happy just thinking of the possibilities. Ohh to hope and dream.

 

This is only the beginning... It has just been so long in coming it seems too surreal to be true. This is going to be a tough fight all the way to the SCOTUS for sure. The AWB and hi-cap issue will be addressed by Heller II and McDonald II most likely before this case is fully litigated.

[Maksim 1,504]

 

This is bitter sweet news...

 

Matt. I can tell you right now, at least a few of those plaintiffs are good people like everyone else. Speaking as myself... and not as part of any organization I may, or may not be sitting on the board of... I am a bit disappointed, to see a few key people missing from the news piece.

 

If you want to make a donation to a NJ 2A group... you dont have to look too far.

[JimmyAGR 54]

while its a step, dont get your hopes up. never underestimate the power of the government to fyck over the common citizen. especially the NJ gov. when it comes to guns. hope for the best, prepare for the worst.

 

At this point I will take any steps to alleviate the ridiculous laws. I won't underestimate the stupidity of our politicians and appointed officials to try and regulate everything we do. But at this moment I feel like I was stranded on a deserted island and just saw a ship off in the distance steaming towards me.

[tommy3rd 132]

I just became a lifetime member about a week ago. It cost $150. Money well spent!

Because of this news, I just became a lifetime member of the SAF.

This lawsuit might not go anywhere, but after waiting for years for the NRA to do something like this, it took the smaller SAF organization to do it. So,the SAF got my money and will be getting my donations from now on.

[NJCSD 0]

Folks, this is just the first salvo. I know that everyone would like to wave a 'magic wand' to restore our liberty, but as we've always maintained at the NJCSD, our rights have been lost incrementally over decades and millions of dollars spent by the anti-gunners, so it will take at least as long to get it back.

 

Please stay tuned. There's more good news to come. In the meantime, treat your investment in the future of your rights for 2nd Amendment advocacy as though you treat your 401k. Diversify your investment across the groups that you feel most closely mirror your philosophy on liberty.

 

Keep an eye peeled to the NJCSD site for an announcement to come tomorrow AM.

[vjf915 456]

Keep an eye peeled to the NJCSD site for an announcement to come tomorrow AM.

[Cemeterys Gun Blob 165]

Because of this news, I just became a lifetime member of the SAF.

This lawsuit might not go anywhere, but after waiting for years for the NRA to do something like this, it took the smaller SAF organization to do it. So,the SAF got my money and will be getting my donations from now on.

 

You are aware that this is a joint effort between the ANJRPC (the NJ NRA Org) and the 2AF right?

[tommy3rd 132]

You are aware that this is a joint effort between the ANJRPC (the NJ NRA Org) and the 2AF right?

In my eyes, the anjrpc is basically just the cherry ridge gun club. If it's supposed to be the NJ NRA org, why did it take them this long to do anything? it almost seems like they're riding the coattails of the SAF.

[Cemeterys Gun Blob 165]

In my eyes, the anjrpc is basically just the cherry ridge gun club. If it's supposed to be the NJ NRA org, why did it take them this long to do anything? it almost seems like they're riding the coattails of the SAF.

 

Did you even read the motion? A few of the plaintiffs got denied this year. And besides, just this past summer, ANJRPC sent out emails, and listed it in their newsletter, and it was even posted here, that they were looking for plaintiffs for a suit over CCW denial. Call me crazy, but I don't recall 2AF looking for NJ plaintiffs.

 

But regardless, congrats on being a new 2AF Life Member. There's gonna be boatloads of litigation for years, and these groups are gonna need donations to fight for our rights.

[Guest megaman]

Let me give you my insider knowledge. The SAF did the filing and will do the arguing on the suit, the ANJRPC found and vetted the planitffs. The law firm of Duane Morris is taking the case. They are in Newark. The lawyer who filed the case this morning with the feds is a gun nut. I gave him a personal open invitation to come shooting at anytime. He was very happy about the invite.

This is going in federal courts, our friend. If NJ appeals and we get carry, we may still be able to carry while on appeal.

Remember, an appeals court looks at the law, not the emotion in the case.

The goal is to get carry to the supreme court before the 'makeup' of the court changes.

 

Our right to carry is about 24 months out if all goes well.

The supreme court of the US has indicated that it would favor carry rights if a case came to it. They have stated that govt can control carrying of weapons in sensitive places, I highly doubt the case could be made that ALL of NJ is 'sensitive'...

All defendants in NJ were vetted and represent extreme cases of denial, where a threat was on record.

The tactic here is to say 'look how out of control this process is!' One guy says yes, one says no, so its no. There is no rhyme or reason to the law and how it is applied.

 

The bottom line is that the state legislature has 'rerouted' our rights to be decided on a local level. They have rerouted the function of a superior court judge to decide if you have the right as the law is written. This is not legal to have a right to be decided on by a local official. There is no deciding a right, there is only eligibility for this right due to the fact that a gun can be a dangerous thing.

 

So dont go knocking the NRA, or the ANJRPC, they all have a hand in this, the SAF has the minds in this...

I am happy this happened today. This is a big step. NY should be decided by the end of this year, which will set a precedent. MD next, then NJ.

This has yet to even get a venue, so I emphasize the 24 months minimum before we see real changes...

Maybe I wont move just yet!

I should have went to lawschool...if I did 2a law, I would be employed forever...think about it...its illegal in NJ right now...if you are a lawyer doing 2a work here right now, these would be pretty good times for you...

[tommy3rd 132]

So dont go knocking the NRA, or the ANJRPC, they all have a hand in this, the SAF has the minds in this...

don't get me wrong...I plan to support the ANJRPC. i'm planning to get a lifetime membership to cherry ridge. however, i'll be paying for the use of their facilities, not because of their affiliation with the NRA.

[Cemeterys Gun Blob 165]

 

I should have went to lawschool...if I did 2a law, I would be employed forever...think about it...its illegal in NJ right now...if you are a lawyer doing 2a work here right now, these would be pretty good times for you...

 

Jobs, Jobs, Jobs......isn't that the mantra of the Left? One needs to be careful of what one wishes.

 

Thanks for helping to lay out the big picture btw.....

[Maksim 1,504]

All I can say is... there were more organizations involved in this other than ANJRPC, who did alot more work, in particular one person here. Personally, it bugs the shit out of me that I cannot publicly show my true feelings that this person is in the shadows, not getting the recognition he damn well deserves.

 

The local plaintiff is just filing the paperwork, this is ALL handled by the 2AF attorneys.

[Cemeterys Gun Blob 165]

I'm not a lawyer, nor do I play one on tee vee, but I found this interesting;

 

Uh...this is a facial challenge to the entire NJ handgun permitting system. That's big.

 

A facial challenge essentially means that "there are no circumstances under which the law or restriction can be legal." That means the SAF is arguing that the law is always illegal, under all circumstances, at all times and in every case. Literally it means "on its entire face, the law is wrong." I know a lot of folks here will say "well, duh", so let me explain why this is a big deal...

 

So far all the challenges filed (Woollard, for instance) have been as-applied, meaning that the laws "as applied" to the plaintiff's are wrong. Woollard has zero use of the word "facial" in its complaint. Making a facial challenge to the entire set of code that governs permitting in NJ is a lot different than saying "as applied, this law is unconstitutional."

 

The difference: when you challenge a law in its application, you need only prove that the law is wrong in the single context of your plaintiff. So if you make an argument for your case, you win.

 

When you challenge a law facially, you need to prove that the law is invalid in all cases, even those cases in which your plaintiffs are not a party. If the law can be demonstrated valid in even one case, you lose.

 

So successful facial challenges are rare even though the challenges themselves are common - a lot of lawyers/plaintiffs with little real experience file them all the time. They lose all the time, too. It's typically a sign of a doomed case. They are usually swept aside in short order.

 

The upside of a facial challenge: reduced discovery. You cannot reasonably depose every potential plaintiff in the case, so there is a limit on what you can do. It also puts the onus on the defendant to defend their laws. The government gets an "easy out" -- all they need to do is describe a single instance in which their laws are constitutional and they win. Case over. Done.

 

Defendants typically love facial challenges because they can be dealt with cleanly, quickly and decisively. As the defendant, I just find a valid case and walk away. I get to "prove" my innocence any way I want rather than investigate and argue the merits of my restrictions against a single (or select few) plaintiffs who were specially chosen to present the maximum headache to me. The many facial challenges are usually handed to the less experienced attorneys because they can be handled with ease (not this case, though).

 

The Upshot:

 

This is a massively ballsy move.

 

What it does is force the 2A issues right to the front of the argument. It literally opens the door to an easy defense on the part of the government - all they need to do is talk about how their restrictions on 2A are legal, even once. But if NJ fails to find/argue that point, they lose in all cases. That's the nature of facial challenges: all or nothing.

 

FWIW, the SAF also bring an as-applied "backup" challenge. But the obvious main argument is the facial challenge. From anyone but the SAF (even the NRA), I would have responded derisively and ignored the case from then on. But this one seems like it might have legs.

 

Every time I think I've seen it all, those kids at the SAF toss another one at me. This is downright entertaining stuff. Glad I signed up for the season pass.

 

Found here: http://www.mdshooters.com/showpost.php?p=869159&postcount=14

[Cemeterys Gun Blob 165]

All I can say is... there were more organizations involved in this other than ANJRPC, who did alot more work, in particular one person here. Personally, it bugs the **** out of me that I cannot publicly show my true feelings that this person is in the shadows, not getting the recognition he damn well deserves.

 

The local plaintiff is just filing the paperwork, this is ALL handled by the 2AF attorneys.

 

 

Who are the 2AF attorneys? I thought Gura was sitting this one out?