PPD Spouse Letter... notarized?

[axeman_g 128]

Put in my PPD about two weeks ago for three pistol permits. My wife gets the letter today. It is a newly formated letter asking for any objections, the usual. But now at the bottom it has a place for a Notary signature and Title.

 

This was not on the last forms here in Cherry Hill that I remember. The detective that used to do the permiting has retired and a Sgt is now handling this chore.

 

Question.... is this standard across Twps, is it legal? It's just another wonderful way to make somebody pay more money out and delay, delay, delay. Now I have to ask my wife to take time out of her schedule, give her $$$ to pay a person to watch her sign a document she has no problem signing.

 

Getting seriously pissed/;

[savageshooter 10]

Can't remember every hearing anyone say a notary was needed for a reference letter. Have been told first hand "No relatives or household members can be used a references."

 

PD's seem to make their own rules with regard to Permits/I.D. cards.

[XDJohnTact 49]

Never heard of a spouse letter, your town in nuts! At least my sister is a notary so I never have to pay.

[hopper 36]

Waterford twp requires my references to have their letters notorized also , another way to prolong the process !!

[BRN169 6]

Sounds like another law suit is in order...

[Guest schutzen-jager]

Never heard of a spouse letter, your town in nuts! At least my sister is a notary so I never have to pay.

notaries in new jersey can not notarize any forms for relatives by state law !!!

[vladtepes 1,060]

Sounds like another law suit is in order...

 

+1 WTF is a spouse form..

[matty 810]

What's a spouse letter? they send something to your wife? really?

[civictuner04 6]

this is awesome....im heading down to c.h. pd monday to drop off for pistol permits

[Melgamatic 66]

Put in my PPD about two weeks ago for three pistol permits. My wife gets the letter today. It is a newly formated letter asking for any objections, the usual.

 

Nothing unusual except for the fact that your PD is breaking the law by even having such a thing....

[vladtepes 1,060]

Nothing unusual except for the fact that your PD is breaking the law by even having such a thing....

 

he should tell them "I refuse to allow her to fill out this form because I do not want to be part of this gross violation of the law.."

[hopper 36]

he should tell them "I refuse to allow her to fill out this form because I do not want to be part of this gross violation of the law.."

Very true......"Notaries should also refrain from notarizing documents in which they have a personal interest".

[Anselmo 87]

notaries in new jersey can not notarize any forms for relatives by state law !!!

 

You sure about that? My wife usually gets a coworker to notarize my stuff as she was told it's not a good idea to notarize for her husband but she is not aware of a prohibition by state law.

 

PS. Law firms will sometimes notarize for free as part of a good will to make new contacts with potential clients. I know my wife's firm doesn't charge.

[Anselmo 87]

Very true......"Notaries should also refrain from notarizing documents in which they have a personal interest".

 

I think this might be a truer statement. Although, as a technical writer I hate the word "should" because I don't know what it means.

[axeman_g 128]

Yep... Cherry Hill sends out a letter to the spouse or SO that resides in same residence. They ask whether or not you object to the issuance of this permit.

 

Going to call on Monday... so now the letter is not even a mandatory, statewide form. I always assumed it was.

 

Cherry Hill was always easy... 28 days and I would get my permits. If there was a delay in getting a ref letter back the Det. would call me to tell me and push me to get it in. Now it seems like the good old guy is retired and the new guy wishes to bust stones.

[vladtepes 1,060]

Yep... Cherry Hill sends out a letter to the spouse or SO that resides in same residence. They ask whether or not you object to the issuance of this permit.

 

Going to call on Monday... so now the letter is not even a mandatory, statewide form. I always assumed it was.

 

Cherry Hill was always easy... 28 days and I would get my permits. If there was a delay in getting a ref letter back the Det. would call me to tell me and push me to get it in. Now it seems like the good old guy is retired and the new guy wishes to bust stones.

 

you should nip that nonsense from day one..

[XDJohnTact 49]

notaries in new jersey can not notarize any forms for relatives by state law !!!

 

 

Oh yeah, that's right, I mispoke, my MARRIED sister with a different name never notarizes anything for me. I just go up to the clubhouse and have one of the two notaries in the office do it for free (a service they provide, membership has it's privileges)

[mcbethr 42]

Let us know how it turns out.

 

I've never been that interested in handgun sports but I would spend the $18 + $2 for a permit and simply let it expire just to get them to follow the law. Kind of a shame we have to do that...

[joecs1 11]

If you have a bank acct at TD BANK, they will notarize anything for you at n/c.

[axeman_g 128]

All,

I just found out that the reference letters also need to be notarized. I need more info from people that know specifically that this letter and asking that they be notarized is illegal. I would like to file a complaint and wish to use the correct language. If you know where this is spelled out, point me in the right direction and I will handle it from there on.

 

In the meantime, I have to decide to go ahead and jump through the hoops or refuse to participate. I have one gun sitting at my FFL right now and another sitting with a private concern waiting on the ppps. I now really hate it here and wish to move.

[vladtepes 1,060]

All,

I just found out that the reference letters also need to be notarized. I need more info from people that know specifically that this letter and asking that they be notarized is illegal. I would like to file a complaint and wish to use the correct language. If you know where this is spelled out, point me in the right direction and I will handle it from there on.

 

In the meantime, I have to decide to go ahead and jump through the hoops or refuse to participate. I have one gun sitting at my FFL right now and another sitting with a private concern waiting on the ppps. I now really hate it here and wish to move.

 

 

you might want to PM PK90.. I think he posted the exact info previously that states what can and can NOT be asked for..

[Teufelhunden 6]

Never heard of a spouse letter, your town in nuts! At least my sister is a notary so I never have to pay.

 

That is perfectly legal in this state. Many states do not allow it but New Jersey does. Even though it is still legal, notaries are advised not to do it if they have a personal interest in what is being notarized. That is only because it could be challenged in court if there was a dispute.

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

I would like to file a complaint and wish to use the correct language. If you know where this is spelled out, point me in the right direction and I will handle it from there on.

 

 

It is in violation of 2C:58-3f

 

There shall be no conditions or requirements added to the form or content of the application, or required by the licensing authority for the issuance of a permit or identification card, other than those that are specifically set forth in this chapter.

 

Good luck. Most PD's just hide behind "It's part of our investigation which we are empowered/required to do". Don't know if this would pass judicial muster or not. I'd hope not, but this is New Jersey.

 

Good luck.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

[BRN169 6]

It is in violation of 2C:58-3f

 

There shall be no conditions or requirements added to the form or content of the application, or required by the licensing authority for the issuance of a permit or identification card, other than those that are specifically set forth in this chapter.

 

Good luck. Most PD's just hide behind "It's part of our investigation which we are empowered/required to do". Don't know if this would pass judicial muster or not. I'd hope not, but this is New Jersey.

 

Good luck.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

 

I would say return them un-notorized with a copy of this and if denied appeal the denial...

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

You might want to try calling the NJSP Firearms unit first and politely explain that your local PD is violating the section quoted and tell them how they are violating it - one call from them to your PD can straighten the whole mess out - providing they agree with your assessment. If not go to Plan B - See BRN169's post.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

[vladtepes 1,060]

It is in violation of 2C:58-3f

 

There shall be no conditions or requirements added to the form or content of the application, or required by the licensing authority for the issuance of a permit or identification card, other than those that are specifically set forth in this chapter.

 

Good luck. Most PD's just hide behind "It's part of our investigation which we are empowered/required to do". Don't know if this would pass judicial muster or not. I'd hope not, but this is New Jersey.

 

Good luck.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

 

I think that the language of the law in this instance is clear.. tell them.. conduct any investigation you want.. but as the law states.. NO ADDITIONAL FORMS..

 

you can investigate me all you want..

you can't make me fill out additional forms..

[njgunrunner 0]

axeman,

i have also run into the same thing. do a search for "cherry hill" and you will see my post. Who is responsible for the guantanamo treatment? the new chief or the new detective handling things? Do you realize how much an imposition this is on references? I should ask for 5-6 permits!!

[kwadz 11]

Who is responsible for the guantanamo treatment? the new chief or the new detective handling things?

 

DSG. Joseph W. Vitarelli, Jr., #234

Public Information Officer

[email protected]

856-432-8818

 

I spoke with him two weeks ago after seeing these posts. Wife and I are in the process of moving to CH and this was a concern. She and I both have FIDs and would need to transfer them. He told me he "owed this to the taxpayers of Cherry Hill to confirm the references were real people". This wasn't regarding the spousal consent form but the notarization of the references. I didn't want to stir the pot over the phone so I politely told him that I didn't believe that was a legal requirement. He then said that the references could bring the forms directly to the CHPD and they would notarize them for free (getting around the "extra fees/costs" requirement). Unfortunately, I wasn't thinking quickly enough to ask about references that lived far away, such as North Dakota (friend in the USAF). I figured that was more of a reconnaissance phone call to figure out his thought process and then plan around it. I encourage everyone to contact him directly and push this issue - both politely and professionally. As long as he only hears from people who sound like rational and "normal" people, we may be able to defeat this without legal action by just convincing him that it is wrong.

 

I'm going to copy this exact post to the other Cherry Hill thread, so don't be surprised when you see it there, too.

[kwadz 11]

I'm wondering whether CH will send these forms to my house when my wife and I move there and both apply at the same time for our FID change of address. It would be kind of ironic to receive forms in the mail the same day for both of us to consent for each other since both of us would be applying for the same thing, in person, together. This would be a good test to see whether this is an intended method to slow things down or dissuade one from applying or whether they truly believe they are doing something good.

[axeman_g 128]

Kwadz... I really want to know if they will send it to a husband of a wife???? Please let us know if you get a form or not. If not.... hmmmm????????????????