4 Walmart employees fired after disarming gunman caught shoplifting

[alec.mc 180]

Link:

 

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=14319284

 

 

What are your thoughts? Is this complete bull ? should they have been fired?

 

Personally, i feel they should be patted on the back. Once the gun came out and was pointed at them it turns into something completely different. Your life is in jeopardy and you should have every possible right to defend it.

 

 

 

LAYTON -- The shoplifter smashed Gabriel Stewart up against a wall. It didn't take him long to realize that pressure against his lower back was from a loaded gun held by a desperate man who didn't want to go to jail.

 

The gunman had a firm grip on Stewart's shoulder, telling him and three of his Walmart co-workers, "Don't make me do this."

The Walmart store in Layton

 

"Absolutely, time stopped," Stewart told KSL News. "I didn't know what to do."

 

Instantly, Shawn Ray and Justin Richins kicked into gear, spinning the gunman around. Lori Poulsen ripped the gun away and secured it. They all held onto the man until police arrived minutes later.

 

The four Layton Walmart employees felt it was mission accomplished. Police officers told them they had done everything right.

 

But a week later, all four were fired from their jobs. Walmart said their actions had violated company policy and put their fellow workers and shoppers at risk.

Coming up on KSL Newsradio

The Doug Wright Show

Doug follows up on this issue today beginning at 9:05 a.m. on KSL Newsradio 102.7 FM/1160 AM.

 

It was the afternoon of Jan. 13 when employees at the store saw Trent Allen Longton unwrap a Netbook computer in the electronics section and stuff it under his clothes.

 

Asset protection coordinator Poulsen met him at the door and ushered him back to the loss prevention room to confront him. Not long after, Ray and Richins -- both asset protection associates -- filtered in, followed by Stewart, an assistant manager, to witness.

 

Moments after he pulled out the small laptop, the workers say Longton also pulled out a handgun and charged toward the closed office door. Ray, Richins and Stewart were in the way. He grabbed Stewart as his way to get out.

 

"He looked right at me and said, 'The gun is cocked. C'mon guys, just let me go. I don't want to do this,'" Shawn Ray recalled.

 

The four believe their quick actions to disarm and secure the man helped prevent what could have been a tragic event. They held the man until a police officer arrived, who wrote in his report that the gunman was taken to the ground in his and citizens' "best interest and safety."

 

"I was thinking, 'Whose house am I going to tonight to tell their family their loved one was shot?'" Poulsen said. "You have to make a decision: Do I fight for my life or do I stand here and watch?"

 

Workers still can't believe what happened the next week.

 

"She said, 'You're fired,'" Richins recalled, of the person brought in to let him go. "You're being terminated for a violation of AP09." AP09 is Walmart's policy on dealing with shoplifters. A copy obtained by KSL shows employees are allowed to use "reasonable force" to limit movements of struggling suspects. If a weapon comes out, however, associates must "disengage" and "withdraw," the policy states.

 

The workers say they don't know where they would have withdrawn to, with the door behind them closed in a small room and the man charging at them. They contend they had no other real option.

 

The former employees also are expressing concern about allowing Longton, armed with a loaded gun, out into the crowded store and beyond.

 

Longton, according to the police report, was a convicted felon who had multiple warrants out for his arrest. He was a restricted person -- meaning he wasn't supposed to be carrying a handgun. The handgun was loaded, according to the report, and contained a bullet in the chamber.

 

Layton police would not comment on the appropriateness of the Walmart workers' actions, but did acknowledge Longton -- with the information that had come through dispatch -- likely would have faced a stiff police response outside the store.

 

"Likely they (the officers) are going to produce their handguns and try and take the person into custody, because you've got to be ready for it," Layton Police Lt. Garrett Atkin said.

 

Longton pleaded guilty Monday to two charges: robbery, a second-degree felony; and the purchase, transfer, possession or use of a dangerous weapon by a restricted person, a class A misdemeanor. In exchange for his plea, three other charges were dismissed, including threatening or using a dangerous weapon in a fight or quarrel.

 

Longton is scheduled to be sentenced on March 28.

 

The four workers were full-time employees. Stewart had been with the company for more than 12 years. Poulsen, who was employed for more than seven years, had made Walmart a career. Ray said his dismissal kept him from purchasing a home.

 

"I honestly felt worse than when I had the gun to my back," Stewart said. "I honestly felt betrayed."

 

The former employees are considering their legal options.

 

Walmart defended the firings in a statement.

 

"We appreciate the intentions demonstrated by our associates in this situation, but the actions taken put their safety -- and potentially the safety of our customers and other associates -- in jeopardy," Walmart spokesman Dan Fogleman said. "In their roles within the store, they were aware of our expectations regarding safety and, unfortunately, their actions have led to them no longer working for the company." [CLICK HERE to read the entire statement]

 

Stories of similar firings exist, including one in Kansas last May. A Walmart worker in Wichita was fired when she followed a man outside the store and demanded proof that he had purchased a computer.

 

The man, according to news reports, kicked and hit the woman before letting go of the computer and running away. She was not an asset protection associate or a manager, and a spokesperson at that time contended she violated company policy and put herself and others in danger.

 

Corporate lawyers say company policies like the one at Walmart are common in the retail world. They're designed to protect employees and make sure they don't put merchandise ahead of their own safety.

 

Some security experts, however, take issue with the policy.

 

"I'm surprised they would be fired they're defending their lives," said David Lundberg, who was a police officer for 21 years, has additional security experience and now runs Utahdetective.com.

 

Lundberg believes concern over liability drives these policies.

 

"People slip and fall, get head injuries, that kind of stuff," Lundberg said. "So that's what stores are worried about is the liability -- getting sued."

[axeman_g 128]

Just another reason why Walmart sucks it. They usually place stores in towns or areas dying for jobs, so they often times find reasons to can longer term employees to replace with lower paid ones that are all dying to work there.

 

They treat their employees like whale poop, their stores are usually unsafe and filled with the dregs of society. I would not mind seeing them go away.

[Dan 177]

The policy needs to include provisions for using personal judgment in situations when your life or others' lives are in danger. If fighting/disarming the guy was in your best interests of self-preservation or that of others, it would be ridiculous to follow the store's policy.

 

Sounds just like NJ's self defense laws outside of your home.... Flee, avoid, give up ground or possessions, all before using force for self defense. It could be argued that if they let the guy take the laptop, he would have left them alone. Counter-point would be that nobody can predict the future, and he could have easily put them all up against the wall and executed them. An example is 9/11, where the terrorists on the planes said to sit quietly and nobody will get hurt...

[axeman_g 128]

Walmart is so sad... a true American story brought down by socialist lawyers and policies and ownerships capitalist greed.

[Krdshrk 3,878]

Yeah I can't stand walmart's policies.

[Malsua 1,422]

I'd rather stand in the unemployment line than be carried by 6.

[AnthonyG 36]

Its one thing if the guy robbed a cashier and they tried to jump him in the crowded store that's reckless. This is different he had a gun to one of their backs and closed the door and trapped them. Store liability was not a issue it was personal safety at this point. Not to mention I am sure if the employee caused other people to get shot it would fall on the person not walmart. These guys did their job and did it well walmart is screwing themselves by firing these guys.

[Shug 4]

Didn't know other than executives people were making a career out of Walmart. Everytime I go seems like the whole staff changes. Anyway this really sucks for them and I hope they have a case for a lawsuit because people like them need to be awarded instead of punished.

[Krdshrk 3,878]

I do know that people make a career out of Walmart. I have a friend who has worked there for years.

[KpdPipes 388]

Yeah I can't stand walmart's policies.

 

I have news for you....EVERY RETAIL STORE has a similar policy, as do EVERY Corporate Conveneince Store, not to mention Chain Delivery places such as Blimpie, Pizza Hut, papa johns, Dominies, Ect. It has nothing to do wiht the company per se, it has EVERYTHING to do with Liability. These policies are written by Lawyers and Insurance Companies, because it's cheaper to take the loss, than pay out millions of dollars in civil suits if an employee, Customer, or even BAD GUY gets injured when an employee resists.

[Krdshrk 3,878]

I have news for you....EVERY RETAIL STORE has a similar policy, as do EVERY Corporate Conveneince Store, not to mention Chain Delivery places such as Blimpie, Pizza Hut, papa johns, Dominies, Ect. It has nothing to do wiht the company per se, it has EVERYTHING to do with Liability. These policies are written by Lawyers and Insurance Companies, because it's cheaper to take the loss, than pay out millions of dollars in civil suits if an employee, Customer, or even BAD GUY gets injured when an employee resists.

 

I wasn't just talking about that specific policies. Walmart generally has some ridiculous policies across the board.

[e80hydro 120]

I wasn't just talking about that specific policies. Walmart generally has some ridiculous policies across the board.

Yea, but, you can get a tee shirt for $4.00 there, as long as you don't mind your belly button and wrists showing.

[Babaganoosh 192]

 

They treat their employees like whale poop, their stores are usually unsafe and filled with the dregs of society. I would not mind seeing them go away.

 

 

By me there is a Target and a Walmart within 2 miles of each other. If you go into Target you see hot moms, college aged people, and normal looking people. Go into the walmart and you see people with one eye, dragging their one leg behind them mutant style, ghetto people, white trash, and preggo mexicanas. I could make a damn movie about it. So weird

[e80hydro 120]

Go into the walmart and you see people with one eye, dragging their one leg behind them mutant style, ghetto people, white trash, and preggo mexicanas.

 

Thats the employee's. The Carny's got to work somewhere in the winter.

[Krdshrk 3,878]

By me there is a Target and a Walmart within 2 miles of each other. If you go into Target you see hot moms, college aged people, and normal looking people. Go into the walmart and you see people with one eye, dragging their one leg behind them mutant style, ghetto people, white trash, and preggo mexicanas. I could make a damn movie about it. So weird

 

http://www.peopleofwalmart.com/

[djg0770 481]

All this Walmart hate really bothers me. Where else can you buy guns and ammo, get parts for your car, food for your kids, drugs for your wife, and entertainment (people of Walmart) for free?

[Maksim 1,504]

Love this... Screw walmart in this thread, yet everyone was swearing by Walmart for free Ammo.

 

+1 Kpd. It sucks, but it is like that in every store... then again, it is their store. Easier to take the loss.

 

I remember a few years back when I was meeting some coworkers at Best Buy here in NJ... a security guy chased after a thief who stole a PS3. Ran him to the parking lot and tackled him.

 

Guess what happened..., guy was suing... and will likely get damages.

Until there is common sense law reforms, and until common citizens drop the entitlement mentality, that is how it is. Everyone expects everything for nothing.

[KpdPipes 388]

Everyone rags Wallyworld..without understanding that Every other store is EXACTLY the same...we wont even go into what banks do when it comes to robberies...Thwew was one (Now defunct) bank that would Lock the CUSTOMERS IN after the BG left to give hime a chance to get out of the area before Police were called

[Joeybones 1]

I would not risk my life for Walmart or any other establishment I worked for. There is nothing in a retail store worth a human life. Unfortunatly these guys thought they were doing a good thing only to get the shaft from walmart. If Walmart praises their actions others may follow the example with vastly different results. They should have let the guy leave and said thanks for shopping at Walmart.

[Maksim 1,504]

Just another reason why Walmart sucks it. They usually place stores in towns or areas dying for jobs, so they often times find reasons to can longer term employees to replace with lower paid ones that are all dying to work there.

 

They treat their employees like whale poop, their stores are usually unsafe and filled with the dregs of society. I would not mind seeing them go away.

 

Who pissed in your Cheerios this morning?

 

Walmart is not bad at all. Walmart provides exactly what people want. They hire people who need jobs. You have terrific prices and Walmart keeps the other shops from raising their prices through the roof. They a total profit margin of 3.35% or so... They are the lifeline to many many small businesses who sell to Walmart. With Sam's Club, how many small businesses go in daily to buy products and groceries at Walmart to go and resell those same goods for 3 times the price?

 

Walmart is bottom rung prices, for average products, with a mediocre service.

How they treat their employees is between Walmart and the employees. If the job is so horrible, the people would quit. If they think they can do it better, they will start their own business.

 

Insurance companies, Walmart, Doctors.... the most hated... yet on a per person basis, they earn less profit than almost any other company, in any other industry. For instance... Gambling, Smoking, Drinking.... all have much higher margins... yet no one ever seems to complain about those evil industries.

 

 

I just came back from supporting my Walmart... bought a new Vacuum for the office, some oil for the car, and some cheap ammo.

[Maksim 1,504]

I would not risk my life for Walmart or any other establishment I worked for. There is nothing in a retail store worth a human life. Unfortunatly these guys thought they were doing a good thing only to get the shaft from walmart. If Walmart praises their actions others may follow the example with vastly different results. They should have let the guy leave and said thanks for shopping at Walmart.

 

 

Absolutely. Personal example is from when I worked at Staples. 18 years old. We had someone who was dumping computers from the shelf, into boxes of packing peanutes and bubble wrap. We called the police, told us they were on their way, but under no circumstance, to try and stop the people. There are cameras in the store, they will find the people. By confronting people, you are only putting everyone else at risk in the store. Yes, there would be theft, but big f'in deal... the loss rate at the stores is anywhere between 1% to 5%. The stores lose more money to employee theft, ie taking pens, taking food and eating it without paying.... then they do all year on theft.

 

Now lets replay the worst case....

 

Guy is confronted by commando Loss Prevention guys , they start roughing him up, the guy shoots and kills the three guys, during the misses, bullets go stray and hit people who are bystanders, bullet also goes and hits a gallon of milk. Milk spills and another customer slips and breaks their foot. So now you have three dead people, a customer who gets shot, and another poor soul who slipped and broke their foot. All of those people are now suing walmart. No one is going to sue the bad guy.... because he has nothing anyway. Everyone wants money. Millions of dollars paid in claims and bad publicity.... why? Because 3 guys wanted to play takti-commando because they work in Loss Prevention.

 

In most retail manuals, in ours in particular, it explicitly stated, under no circumstances try to restrain the bad guy. That is what you have really good cameras for. You do not lay a hand on the thief. The thief is there to steal products, not to put a round in your head.

 

Is risking your life worth your company's measly $300 netbook?

[vladtepes 1,060]

I could just picture the unemployment office..

 

Reason for termination: Defending my life...

[Maksim 1,504]

I could just picture the unemployment office..

 

Reason for termination: Defending my life...

 

"Go On... How did this happen? "

 

"I played Rambo trying to stop a guy shoplifting."

 

 

=) God Bless America.... =)

[vjf915 456]

I have news for you....EVERY RETAIL STORE has a similar policy, as do EVERY Corporate Conveneince Store, not to mention Chain Delivery places such as Blimpie, Pizza Hut, papa johns, Dominies, Ect. It has nothing to do wiht the company per se, it has EVERYTHING to do with Liability. These policies are written by Lawyers and Insurance Companies, because it's cheaper to take the loss, than pay out millions of dollars in civil suits if an employee, Customer, or even BAD GUY gets injured when an employee resists.

100% correct. In fact, I was surprised to see that Wal-Marts policy allowed reasonable physical restraint to detain a suspect. That shocked the hell out of me.

[KpdPipes 388]

I could just picture the unemployment office..

 

Reason for termination: Defending my life...

Violating corporate policy which had been clearly explained to me in both my pre-employment interview, and the Employee handbook which I signed for after being given.

 

Fixed that for you.

[Malsua 1,422]

Violating corporate policy which had been clearly explained to me in both my pre-employment interview, and the Employee handbook which I signed for after being given.

 

Fixed that for you.

 

Yeah, because when there's a gun in your back, the first thing that should come to mind is: "Am I violating a corporate policy here?"

[axeman_g 128]

My hate for Walmart stems from my past days as a hippie-environmentalist in the south. Down there Walmarts have destroyed small town america, putting up huge stores between numerous small towns, usually unincorporated county areas where there we low to no taxes. Then their merchandise was usually cheaper and yes more convenient then the stores in the towns. Killed mom and pop stores across the nation. So when people **** that there is no personal service, relationships or miss the old towns.... I 100% blame Walmart more then any other factors.

 

And yes I was pissy and thanks for calling me on it.

[Zell959 40]

Listen, I totally get why its smart business to strictly maintain & enforce policies that prevent employees from putting others in danger or risking lawsuits with poorly executed attempts at heroics. But, this really sounds like a case where these people had no reason to assume their attacker would spare them as long as they were compliant, as the policy would require. I'm not saying Walmart needs to change the policy, but there is no reason they can't show some discretion in it's application. They could publicly state what the policy is, but note that they are making an exception for this incident because the employees did not have the choice to flee and could reasonably conclude that their own lives were already in danger.

[vladtepes 1,060]

Violating corporate policy which had been clearly explained to me in both my pre-employment interview, and the Employee handbook which I signed for after being given.

 

Fixed that for you.

 

I understand the concept of wanting employees to just be compliant neutral drones during the event of a hold up or similar situation.. if the policy is "DO NOTHING BUT COMPLY" the business doesn't have to worry about a lawsuit based on an employee doing the "wrong" thing that escalated the situation and caused someone to be injured.. but just because I understand the policy.. and why it exists.. doesn't mean I have to agree with it..

[Krdshrk 3,878]

I understand the concept of wanting employees to just be compliant neutral drones