NJ2AS v. NJSP update and court documents

[KpdPipes 388]

I been given to understand that this type of generous extension period will help our side if an appeal is necessary, and possibly hurt the state if they have to appeal.

the more rope the Court sells them now, the less grounds they have for Appeal....Judges REALLY HATE having their decisions appealed.

[Bob B 103]

^

Let's hope that is his motivation, to avoid being overturned on appeal.

[ianargent 7]

Well, favoritism towards one side is a reversible error, no?

[raz-0 1,259]

Here is the thing, does this guide even exist? I asked my local pd and they never saw it.

 

Hey, if they showed it to police, do you realize what kind of peril that would subject us to?

 

Me neither.

 

My interpretation of events so far is this.

 

State says "it's a secret"

 

Judge says tell me why it's a secret.

 

State says because we don't want anyone to know.

 

Judge goes, do you think I'm stupid, you'll need a compelling reason.

 

State says if the bad guys see it the terrorists have won.

 

judge says I'll be the judge of that, I want the document and I want a detailed compelling reason to not disclose it.

 

State ignores but hands over their homework.

 

Judge says OK, I can't imagine why, but I'm going to give you one last chance, knowing full well I have seen the stupid thing, to tell me what is so critically important to keep secret.

[Cemeterys Gun Blob 165]

what a joke. they cant figure out a reason why you shouldnt have it. and the POS judge just keeps giving them more leeway. i wonder if he'll rule in their favor either way

 

This is NJ, of course he'll rule in favor of the NJSP.

[njJoniGuy 2,133]

This is NJ, of course he'll rule in favor of the NJSP.

Sad, but true, I'm afraid

[ianargent 7]

Which means he's doing them (and his reversal record) no favors by extending them excessive courtesy.

[KpdPipes 388]

This is NJ, of course he'll rule in favor of the NJSP.

 

Well then Why bother?

[ianargent 7]

Laying groundwork?

[Maksim 1,504]

Once again.... <ob one kinobi> there is no book that you are looking for. </ob one kinobi>

[KpdPipes 388]

Laying groundwork?

I was being sarcastic... frankly the more the Judge makes them jump through hoops the better down the line. As got it being a Slam-dunk for NJSP, if that was the case the judge would have already done it. It's NOT all that uncommon for Judges to rule against the Police.

[NicePants 58]

Well, favoritism towards one side is a reversible error, no?

 

It's much more than that. It's an absolute injustice and corruption of the law. I always believed that judges were supposed to be some sort of neutral force for justice, but the past few years living here and hearing about these cases now, I realize that this isn't always the case. I do hope that if this does go to an appeal, we can get some sort of rectification on this matter if they see that the judge was unfairly biased towards the NJSP's side.

[ianargent 7]

That's essentially what I meant by reversible error. Appeals succeed not because of the facts (those are generally considered set in stone at the initial court level), but because of judicial error, one of which is to show favoritism towards one side or another. There's little wrong for our side (other than taking a little longer time) for the judge to grant a certain amount of leeway to the NJSP. Either he rules for us at the end, and the NJSP argument for appeal is weakened by the extra chances they got; or he rules against us after showing bias towards the NJSP side.

[nasal avenger 0]

Can this thread be stickied, please?

[Cemeterys Gun Blob 165]

Well then Why bother?

 

Because we're like that guy in Greek or Roman mythology who's duty was to simply roll that rock up and down between two mountains, cause its just what he does.

[djg0770 481]

Because we're like that guy in Greek or Roman mythology who's duty was to simply roll that rock up and down between two mountains, cause its just what he does.

 

and Atlas was his name-o.

[muzzelloader69 9]

i hope this goes well for us today , were on a roll.

[lunker 274]

and Atlas was his name-o.

 

Wasn't it Sisyphus?

[Malsua 1,422]

My prediction for the day...the state police will figure out a way to kick the can further down the road.

[muzzelloader69 9]

well , if this case gets pushed off another time , we gotta say to the judge WTF. enough is enough already. SH^&*T or get off the pot.

[Tom-NJ2AS 31]

We should have a definite answer for you guys at the December 3rd meeting in Toms River

[djg0770 481]

Wasn't it Sisyphus?

 

I stand corrected.

 

from wiki

In Greek mythology, Atlas (English pronunciation: /ˈætləs/, Greek. Ἄτλας) was the primordial Titan who supported the heavens. Although associated with various places, he became commonly identified with the Atlas Mountains in north-west Africa.[1] Atlas was the son of the Titan Iapetus and the Oceanid Asia[2] or Klyménē (Κλυμένη):[3]

[djg0770 481]

We should have a definite answer for you guys at the December 3rd meeting in Toms River

 

A definite maybe as is always the case with anything important to our cause in NJ. Or you can get a definite yes as in Fred Madden which magically turns into a resounding no when you need yes the most...

[Bob B 103]

We should have a definite answer for you guys at the December 3rd meeting in Toms River

 

I would say "We hope to have an answer at the December 3rd meeting in Toms River."

 

Why? Because, again, at the last minute, the judge called for another conference call. On the call, Mr. Rizzo (Deputy Attorney General) asked for another extension to complete the third certification. We objected, pointing out that six months and two certifications is obviously enough and the reason that it is so difficult to provide proof of harm is because releasing the guide would not cause any harm. The judge, while at lease acknowledging this time that we may be correct, overruled our objection, but only gave Mr. Rizzo until December 2nd, and "that's it."

 

In all likelihood, we will want to respond to the certification, so it will likely take a bit longer.

[hd2000fxdl 422]

[muzzelloader69 9]

when did all this take place ? , this morning?

[Tom-NJ2AS 31]

I apologize Bob. I thought that was a hard date given by the judge.

 

thanks

[Bob B 103]

I apologize Bob. I thought that was a hard date given by the judge.

 

thanks

 

Please don't apologize. How in the world could anyone keep all of this straight. It's impossible.

[Maksim 1,504]

There is no guide. :thsmiley_deadhorse:

 

They are making one as we speak.

 

But damn the legal system. How many extensions do they need?.

[Bob B 103]

The NJSP submitted their third certification. I will post it as soon as I get a chance, along with our response. Basically, the third certification is as vague and "conclusory" as the others, with the exception that it has an odd paragraph that lists the things that would create harm if released and then says that the guide contains none of them (very puzzling). So we think that the third certification works in our favor. We have another court appearance tomorrow, Dec 2, at 11:30 AM. We are hoping for a decision, but, as we have found out, these things cannot be accurately predicted.