NJ2AS v. NJSP update and court documents

[Bob B 103]

Oops, I must have missed that. If that is in fact the case, then I can't possibly see how they are not lying. If there is nothing other than what is in the statues, then there is nothing sensitive, and it would legally have to be released. So either there is stuff in there that is sensitive, or there is stuff in there that is illegal that they don't want to be shown. So either way, something is going on that shouldn't be.

 

Exactly.

[ianargent 7]

And today's phrase of the day is "reversible error", or "never interrupt your opponent when they are making a mistake."

 

Seriously, they couldn't manage to keep their story straight to that extent?

[LorenzoS 100]

Oops, I must have missed that. If that is in fact the case, then I can't possibly see how they are not lying. If there is nothing other than what is in the statues, then there is nothing sensitive, and it would legally have to be released. So either there is stuff in there that is sensitive, or there is stuff in there that is illegal that they don't want to be shown. So either way, something is going on that shouldn't be.

I totally agree, this is bull crap. However it does represent one small step. At least a local PD cannot say they are asking for a notarized letter and claim the NJSP Guide tells them to do so.

[djg0770 481]

I totally agree, this is bull crap. However it does represent one small step. At least a local PD cannot say they are asking for a notarized letter and claim the NJSP Guide tells them to do so.

 

Umm - and how do we know that? The NJSP Guide has not been "entered into evidence" so you can't quote it in court...

[LorenzoS 100]

Wait - the AG makes the law (believe me I know what the AG is supposed to do, but this is NJ), the governor (Fatty Arbuckle) appoints the AG, the legislature makes the law except when the AG wants to make the law, the courts enforce some unwritten bs and the police enforce whatever they want (see post by KPDpipes regarding his attempt to educate fellow LEOs who just don't give a rats behind as to what's actually written in the law.

 

But I should blame my neighbor? Yeah - not so much man.

 

The people get the government they deserve. However, none of them would be in office if your fellow citizens did not elect them, or get appointed by those we elected.

 

Politicians have one talent: to know what the people want so they can get elected. If the citizens of NJ actually believed in the 2A then the governor, state legislature etc. would smell that in a second and do / say whatever is necessary to get elected. I know it is comforting to believe that if we could only throw the bums out everything would be great, but the sad truth is 2A rights are disrespected in NJ by the people.

 

New Jerseyans tend to have little real exposure to firearms and so what little they know they learned from movies, video games, and gang reports on the news. Attitudes like that don't change quickly. This is why I believe our only hope is through Federal court not rooted in Northeastern ignorance, and possibly through a long long period of education and acclamation so your neighbors no longer associate "gun" with "nut."

[Bob B 103]

Update:

 

Sorry that I have not posted an update to our case in a while, but there was a very interesting development that we could not talk about until it was official. In short, our case has been consolidated with an ACLU case that also challenges the new exemption rules. We view this as a positive development. This does not mean that we are working with the ACLU, but it does mean that both organizations have an interest in the new rules being struck down and that puts us on the same side.

 

I have added several documents to the OP for your reference.

 

For those who have not heard, Asbury Park and Manalapan have both eliminated their additional forms. Both of those wins have their roots in this case. Thank you to everyone who has provided their continued support, it has been essential to the ongoing success of OEC.

[Malsua 1,422]

The ACLU will probably cut a deal to just allow their concerns to be addressed, using OEC as something they can throw under the bus as a concession.

[Bob B 103]

The ACLU will probably cut a deal to just allow their concerns to be addressed, using OEC as something they can throw under the bus as a concession.

 

Not likely in this case, Mark, because of the nature of the challenge to the new exemptions. They either violate OPRA or they don't. There is no deal to be cut. They would have to rewrite the exemptions.

[Bob B 103]

...added one more document.

[Socom 19]

i for one appreciate everything being done!

[BigHayden 77]

This isn't the first time the ACLU has gotten involved in a case and been on the pro-gun side. This is a good thing!

[LorenzoS 100]

I wouldn't get too excited about the ACLU. You won't find them filing any briefs supporting constitutional carry in the next hundred years or so.

 

This is really a function of how far the state of NJ will go to prevent law abiding gun ownership, the level of rights violations are so outrageous that even the ACLU cannot ignore them. I am sure this is being handled by the same department that defends Nazis and child molesters just becuase they have to. Still I am glad for any support we can get.

[Bob B 103]

I just added the ACLU's brief to the OP.

 

No court date is set yet. It is likely to be several more months.

[snappy456 23]

Thank you for all the hard work. It's much appreciated.

[Bob B 103]

You are welcome. Thank you for your support.

[Bob B 103]

For those who have not heard, we received a letter from the Long Branch Township Attorney on Monday concurring with our reading of the "no additional requirements" clause of 2C:58-3(f). They have agreed to become compliant within two weeks.

[njpilot 671]

For those who have not heard, we received a letter from the Long Branch Township Attorney on Monday concurring with our reading of the "no additional requirements" clause of 2C:58-3(f). They have agreed to become compliant within two weeks.

 

Nice Bob, great work. Even if it's one town at a time, getting them to comply is great.

 

Keep up the great work.

[Bob B 103]

PARTIAL VICTORY, but it is not over.

 

The Attorney General has agreed to re-write the OPRA exemption that exempts all Division of Law and Public Safety Standard Operating Procedures to make it more narrow in scope. They have requested, and we agreed to a 45 day stay to allow them to do that. However, they still have not agreed to release the guide and have once again changed their reason (because they can no longer rely on the exemption that they are now re-writing). I added the most recent court documents to the OP. Of course, just because they are re-writing the exemption, does not mean that the new version will be acceptable. We will see.

[siderman 1,138]

Great work! Almost forgot about the mysteriously missing black book. While your knee deep in it get that pia employment verification process nullified.In your spare time of course!

[springfieldxds 0]

What's OPRA stand for

[KpdPipes 388]

What's OPRA stand for

Open Public Records Act

[Texas Shooter 35]

 

 

That's the way the game is played. The legal system is a joke. It's not about right or wrong, it's about winning.

 

It's a Court of Law, not a Court of Justice

Good or bad, that's what it is, a legal system designed by and run by lawyers.