NJ2AS v. NJSP update and court documents

[Twospot 38]

Thank you for your hard work. I am new to the gun hobby and I will be definitely joining the organization. This is just insanity!

[LorenzoS 100]

Damn it, the NJSP is using the Chewbacca Defense! Not fair!

[bry@n 195]

Cool, lets hope they go our way.

[tony357 386]

Cool, lets hope they go our way.

 

I hope your not delivering the verdict?

Sorry for the interuption fell over from another thread..

[n4p226r 105]

Is it today?

[Krdshrk 3,877]

Well today's the 2nd, so yes

[Malsua 1,422]

Dec 2, at 11:30 AM

 

Not long now to find out the next way they will delay it.

[Soju 153]

You got to love our legal system where it can take 6 months (soon to be more I imagine) for a single request by the judge to be fulfilled because all you have to do is not comply and instead just ask for extensions. How is the even allowed?

[djg0770 481]

You got to love our legal system where it can take 6 months (soon to be more I imagine) for a single request by the judge to be fulfilled because all you the AG has to do is not comply and instead just ask for extensions. How is the even allowed?

 

Fixed it for you

[fumanchu182 23]

Was just clued into the NJ2AS. This is a nail biter. Look forward to hearing the outcome.

[raz-0 1,259]

This is ridiculous. I hope the judge reads it as "No really, we were really just wasting your time judge. We wanted to show you the least respect possible without removing any articles of clothing."

[hd2000fxdl 422]

Can we carry yet??? Oh sorry wrong thread.

[david8613 69]

can you imagine how many holsters will be sold that day!!!! it probably would give a boost to the economy! lol...

[JackDaWack 2,895]

can you imagine how many holsters will be sold that day!!!! it probably would give a boost to the economy! lol...

Not only holsters... people will be going out and buying dedicated carry handguns. Not one of my pistols is "carry" friendly, i've never had a reason to contemplate if the pistol is carry compatible.

[muzzelloader69 9]

any body no whats going on with the results?

[Cemeterys Gun Blob 165]

any body no whats going on with the results?

 

 

This is New Jersey, dollars to donuts, if anything happened, it wasn't in our favor.

[CageFighter 236]

anyone know what happened today?

Tomorrow @ 7pm is too long for me right now!

[NicePants 58]

I can probably foresee the outcome to this:

 

Judge: WELL AFTER HEARING FROM BOTH SIDES, PARTICULARLY THE AG AND HER MERRY BAND OF NJSP COHORTS, IN ALL MY JOLLY JUDGINESS, I DECREE THAT THE GUIDE SHALL REMAIN SUPER DUPER EXTRA SECRET.

 

AG/NJSP: HERPADERPAWOOOOOOOOOO! WARBLEWARBLE! WARKWARKWARK!

[muzzelloader69 9]

how come nothing is posted yet on this? , court should be over with by now

[TCinJ 7]

I just read all 9 pages of this saga.

 

Glad to know we have some good people working on the side of preserving our second amendment rights here in NJ.

 

Some friends of mine live right across the bridge in PA, and it's like a different country when it comes to firearms.

 

All these super strict gun control laws and look at cities like Camden, Trenton, Newark, etc. Filled with illegal firearms while the law abiding citizen waits months to get purchase permits that make them wait months.

 

While I don't ever intend to own a AK-47 or even buy/sell more than a few guns a year - I don't want to infringe on any law abiding citizen to do so if he/she pleases to own a large capacity, fully automatic rifle or buy/sell as many guns as they like.

[Bob B 103]

Sorry it has taken so long, but it has been a long day and I am only, just now, sitting in front of my computer.

 

I have added the third certification and our response to the OP.

 

Today, in the court room, the judge sat down and immediately started talking about the OPRA portion of the case. Frank and I immediately took this as a bad sign, because if he intended to give us the guide under common law, he would have no need to address the OPRA issue at all. In about a minute and a half, Judge Hurd concluded that the guide is, in fact, an SOP and the rule (Executive Order 47) declaring all SOP's in the Division of Law and Public Safety exempt from OPRA as "stretching the limit" but valid. Keep in mind that he heard no oral arguments on the issue whatsoever as he avoided it from the beginning. He then allowed both sides to speak about the common law portion, but it was clear what his intentions were. After 30 minutes or so, he concluded that the third certification was sufficient and convinced him that releasing the guide would cause harm - even though the defense provided no evidence whatsoever, as required by law, that it would. He then concluded that the need for the state to keep the guide a secret outweighed our need to see it, a test that is only required if the guide would cause harm.

 

Although we were very disappointed in the verdict (if you read the third certification you'll understand why - it's garbage) we were extremely happy that the judge concluded that the guide is an SOP. This was far more important than actually seeing the guide. One of the primary objectives of this case was to get the state to commit to a definition of the guide prior to challenging a municipality on additional requirements. That has now been accomplished. Although it does not make anything a slam dunk (as if that was possible in NJ), it does help us.

 

So, there you have it.

 

I'm sure you are wondering if we are going to appeal. That announcement will be made shortly.

[ChrisJM981 924]

Must be nice to do whatever you want and not be held accountable for making willfully negligent poor decisions on a regular basis...

[CageFighter 236]

Must be nice to do whatever you want and not be held accountable for making willfully negligent poor decisions on a regular basis...

 

Especially after giving them THREE tries.

[njJoniGuy 2,131]

Is it true that the judge's surname really begins with the letter "T" not the letter "H" and it has been purposely mis-spelled to disassociate his name from the content of his ruling?

[compujas 21]

I like how they think that a NJ PD is the avenue that terrorists and criminals take to obtain firearms. I wonder how many FID/PPP Trenton, Camden, and Newark give out relative to the rest of the state given there are probably more guns in those 3 towns than the rest of the state.

 

I can just imagine the guy writing these certs sitting there saying "I don't know what to write....let's just say this. If it's wrong I'll get another try anyway, right?".

[TCinJ 7]

Activist judge.............

[tbtrout 141]

So how does the guide being ruled an SOP help?

[LorenzoS 100]

I imagine that by declaring the guide a standard, even if its secret, it establishes a benchmark to say towns are not complying with that standard. In fact if you read page 5 of the NJSP's certification, they basically say you don't need to see the guide becuase the requirements for an application are public and municipalities are not permitted to add additional ones. This seems the lynchpin to preventing towns from adding whatever nonsense they want.

 

But Godamit New Jersey. Godamit.

[n4p226r 105]

do these judges have a boss? who do they have to answer to or can they do whatever they want with no worry of anything more than a bad appeals record?

[Babaganoosh 192]

I'm so sick of this. We know that there is a copy or two out there in public hands. Whoever has it needs to get in touch with someone who is internet savvy and dump it all over the internet.