Sayreville sportsman.. lousy experience

[xm177e2687 2]

He told me today anything with more than a 10 rd magazine is illegal saigas are not legal if they take double stacks. I was like i'll cya around thanks for the help. He is still a nice guy alot of the older guys don't understand the laws

 

I read about salesmen and FFL's in the very sensitive trade of selling firearms to an largely confused and uninformed public and can't seem to fathom how they get away with not knowing the laws that govern their livelihood. In my business, if I run afoul of more that 2 rules,standards,and laws, I get shut down.

As I recounted before, this is the same place where a revolver I was prepared to purchase was basically taken out of my hand and told to return only after my wife received her FID and PPL because I mentioned that I wanted something simple and reliable for OUR home defense.

I know better now since joining NJGF and asking the questions but back then I was relying on a supposed professional for informed and accurate guidance...... Well apparently I am not the only potential customer this business has alienated and lied to.

 

 

I've had a very similar situation occur in a different shop, being accused of a straw purchase when attempting to purchase a firearm that was to be used by more than one person in the home. Some gun store employees just take things a bit too far, power trip I suppose. I am sorry to hear what that guy did to you and your wife. Try Brick Armory or Shore Shot, I doubt either of those stores would have a problem with you purchasing a firearm for your home that may or may not be used by your wife for home defense.

 

He told me today anything with more than a 10 rd magazine is illegal saigas are not legal if they take double stacks. I was like i'll cya around thanks for the help. He is still a nice guy alot of the older guys don't understand the laws

 

Well I am glad someone else can now back up my story. I simply cannot believe that somebody who is operating a retail firearms outlet in NJ has such little comprehension of our laws. All it takes is a quick google search, or better yet (since hes an old timer and may not be very internet saavy).. every gun shop should have a copy of Evan Nappen's NJ gun law book. I know shore shot has it, and it has a wealth of information regarding our "assault weapon" restrictions. The law really isn't that complicated, I am really surprised that the guy thought our mag limit was 10 rounds... what the hell is he doing selling guns with such little knowledge of our laws??? I mean that is a simple one, anyone working in a NJ gun shop should know that our limit is 15. That guy really has no place selling firearms in such a restrictive state if he isn't going to take a little time to research and learn our laws. And the way he accused me of being in violation of our law made me uncomfortable, especially since there was other customers in the store overhearing the conversation. Anyway, I'm never stepping foot in that shop again, I'd drive 3 hours away to a decent shop for a 2 dollar part before I gave him any of my business. Maybe my opinion would change if the guy took the time to become familiar with the items he is selling/choosing not to sell and didnt openly accuse law abiding customers of being criminals.

[MrP 81]

As much fun as it is to say "well this is what they do for a living, how can they not know every regulation pertaining to their business?!?!", it's a bit unrealistic. There are just too many laws/statutes/regulations for an individual to be completely versed in all of them. From a business standpoint it makes little sense to me why you wouldn't know as much as you can about your market, but that's the owners prerogative.

 

With that said, they should have an EXTENSIVE knowledge of firearm legalities, much more so than the average joe. If I can look up the information in 2 minutes online, so can a LGS owner.

 

I believe the same goes for police. I love being upset that they don't know the laws they are sworn to enforce as much as the next guy, but it isn't realistic to ask them to have every statute memorized and understood. They may be getting bad information from a source they trust and just passing it along. Again with that said, they need to have an extensive knowledge of these laws as well as make it a habit to check for and understand updates to existing ones.

 

I don't believe I'm "cutting them too much slack", we have to remember that 99.9992% of the people who inaccurately state gun information (BradyBunch aside) aren't doing it maliciously. Human nature is flawed, and while ignorance is no excuse, it's only human and so are we.

[djg0770 481]

As much fun as it is to say "well this is what they do for a living, how can they not know every regulation pertaining to their business?!?!", it's a bit unrealistic. There are just too many laws/statutes/regulations for an individual to be completely versed in all of them. From a business standpoint it makes little sense to me why you wouldn't know as much as you can about your market, but that's the owners prerogative.

 

So, you would be OK with a restaurant owner not washing his hands after going #2?

You would be OK with a taxi driver driving on the left side of the road? Or a bus driver to drive drunk? etc

 

This is what we are reduced to. If the law is so obscure then who's fault is that? Is it not the legislature that passed the law? I expect shop owners, whether they be gun retailers, liquor salesman, cigarette dealers, the drugstore, etc to know AND ABIDE BY the law. To intimate otherwise is a bit ridiculous. These are the laws that permit them to run their businesses and if they run afoul of them will prevent them from running their business. It's in their best interest to not only know but abide by the law. To have people make up their own laws on the fly is just complete and total...

[Duppie 73]

As much fun as it is to say "well this is what they do for a living, how can they not know every regulation pertaining to their business?!?!", it's a bit unrealistic. There are just too many laws/statutes/regulations for an individual to be completely versed in all of them. From a business standpoint it makes little sense to me why you wouldn't know as much as you can about your market, but that's the owners prerogative.

 

With that said, they should have an EXTENSIVE knowledge of firearm legalities, much more so than the average joe. If I can look up the information in 2 minutes online, so can a LGS owner.

 

I believe the same goes for police. I love being upset that they don't know the laws they are sworn to enforce as much as the next guy, but it isn't realistic to ask them to have every statute memorized and understood. They may be getting bad information from a source they trust and just passing it along. Again with that said, they need to have an extensive knowledge of these laws as well as make it a habit to check for and understand updates to existing ones.

 

I don't believe I'm "cutting them too much slack", we have to remember that 99.9992% of the people who inaccurately state gun information (BradyBunch aside) aren't doing it maliciously. Human nature is flawed, and while ignorance is no excuse, it's only human and so are we.

I agree and am cognizant that New Jersey's Firearms laws are confusing and extensive but such things as max mag capacity,HP,FID,PPL laws are in my mind the very basics and it is not unrealistic to expect a business to keep up on, so someone misrepresenting or out right lying is inexcusable. I feel like I've truly beaten this horse to death and least I am accused of some sort of vendetta I'll just say in closing that I have the impression that SS is and shall remain the quintessential example of a owner/operator's misguided ego, bombast,and/or prescription addled disinterest and for us not to call BS! is just doing a disservice to the next poor unaware schmuck that happens by Sayerville Sportsman.

[MrP 81]

So, you would be OK with a restaurant owner not washing his hands after going #2?

You would be OK with a taxi driver driving on the left side of the road? Or a bus driver to drive drunk? etc

 

This is what we are reduced to. If the law is so obscure then who's fault is that? Is it not the legislature that passed the law? I expect shop owners, whether they be gun retailers, liquor salesman, cigarette dealers, the drugstore, etc to know AND ABIDE BY the law. To intimate otherwise is a bit ridiculous. These are the laws that permit them to run their businesses and if they run afoul of them will prevent them from running their business. It's in their best interest to not only know but abide by the law. To have people make up their own laws on the fly is just complete and total...

 

Alright so you quoted half of what I said, skewing the message I was trying to get across. I also said:

 

With that said, they should have an EXTENSIVE knowledge of firearm legalities, much more so than the average joe. If I can look up the information in 2 minutes online, so can a LGS owner.

 

I would assume that EXTENSIVE knowledge, much more so than the average joe, of one's business laws would include a restaurant owner washing ones hands/taxi driver knowing which side, bus drivers drinking etc.

 

It's fun to make outlandish statements to try and get a point across, but it doesn't do anything beneficial for the discussion. A more reasonable example you could have given might be: So you would be OK with a restaurant owner not knowing the exact number of seconds his employees must keep their hands in warm water, as well as the minimum microbacterial sanitation level of the so called "soap" they are using to qualify as washing their hands?

 

When you said:

If the law is so obscure then who's fault is that? Is it not the legislature that passed the law?

it more or less supported my view that the gun shop owners don't create these laws. While it's their choice to learn them, it's ours to support them monetarily.

 

Please read my whole post next time, as I gave you the same courtesy.

[NJdiverTony 27]

I went to high school in Sayreville and lived there for several years, and always hated going to Sayreville Sportsman... But it was the only place around, so I would shop there out of necessity during hunting season. I don't know if the place is still owned or managed by the same people it was about 15 years ago... But if it is, I can see why people would be dissatisfied with the place. You couldn't pay me to walk into that shop nowadays.

[djg0770 481]

Alright so you quoted half of what I said, skewing the message I was trying to get across. I also said:

 

Yeah - my bad. **** happens. Had I not replied to your post, it would have been fine I think.

[Wolfy 51]

Hey I wasn't name calling, and I'm not making up my story. The guy simply told me that I was in violation of NJ law for possessing a WASR 10/63 that is capable of accepting a double stack magazine, and that ANY AK looking rifle that accepts a double stack magazine is illegal here. And he did not say it in a friendly, looking out for me kinda way, he was pretty aggressive about it. That said, I still purchased some small items from the store, but the guy I spoke with there was very uninformed when it comes to WASR rifles. I purchased my rifle at tips hardware here in NJ, I suppose if it was illegal, a NJ FFL probably would not have been selling it. If you want to support the store thats your business, I am not calling anyone names.. if you are refering to the Fudd statement, that term is just in reference to the guys who are not into black rifles and prefer the good old wood and blued steel stuff, I did not consider it derogatory, different strokes for different folks. Once again, I am not making up my story.. the guy working there did in fact say what I am claiming he said, and accused me of being in violation of NJ law for owning my WASR. If you have good experiences there then thats fine, and I apologize if you are offended by my experience in the store but it happened the way I am describing it. I did a google search on them and see that they got poor reviews from others as well. I have been to almost every gun shop in this state and I am yet to encounter an employee saying anything about double stack 10 round AK type magazines or the rifles that accept them being illegal here, or being capable of full auto conversion because of their willingness to accept a double stack magazine. Again, I apologize if I offended you, that was not my intention in making my post.. I simply wanted to get the word out so maybe other potential customers wouldnt make the same mistake I did and ask about rifles that accept double stack AK magazines. I have no reason to LIE about this and apparently another person in this thread was told the same thing about WASRs in the shop. The employee/owner is simply misinformed and maybe this thread will help educate him on the subject matter. If he doesnt want to sell these particular rifles thats his business, but if he wants to tell customers that they are illegal and imply that I am a criminal for owning one, then thats just flat out misinformation.

 

 

Read the bold statements you admit that FFL's can be wrong but you trust yours? The gun owner is responsible for making a legal purchase. Have you read the legal code applied to NJ gun laws? Is the guy behind the counter an attorney?

[Dan 177]

Our State Overlords must be pleased at the effects their confusing and twisted gun laws are having on our shooting community. They prefer confusion and inconsistency among us and especially dealer/FFL's. They would love it even more if every dealer in NJ took Sayreville Sportsman's interpretation of the laws. They have already proved that is the game they are playing... to little by little threaten and corner dealers into not selling entire classes of EBR type guns.

 

My interpretation around the part on "straw purchases" when saying you are buying a pistol for "our use" in home defense strategy is a legal gray area in NJ on the basis of transfer. Other residents in your home are under exemption for possession of a gun while on your property, no problem. Unfortunately the temporary transfer exemptions do not include those same location exemptions, and temporarily transferring a gun to someone else in your home has a high probability of being an illegal transfer. So in essence, the gun owner could be charged with illegal transfer/straw purchase (stretch by they would have to prove you purchased it with the intent of illegally transferring it to someone else). The receiver of the gun in the household would be free and clear, as they and possess it under exemptions. All this being said, tie that into the fact there are laws on the books saying if you sell a gun to someone when you have good reason to believe they will use it illegally you can get into big trouble....

[Duppie 73]

Our State Overlords must be pleased at the effects their confusing and twisted gun laws are having on our shooting community. They prefer confusion and inconsistency among us and especially dealer/FFL's. They would love it even more if every dealer in NJ took Sayreville Sportsman's interpretation of the laws. They have already proved that is the game they are playing... to little by little threaten and corner dealers into not selling entire classes of EBR type guns.

 

My interpretation around the part on "straw purchases" when saying you are buying a pistol for "our use" in home defense strategy is a legal gray area in NJ on the basis of transfer. Other residents in your home are under exemption for possession of a gun while on your property, no problem. Unfortunately the temporary transfer exemptions do not include those same location exemptions, and temporarily transferring a gun to someone else in your home has a high probability of being an illegal transfer. So in essence, the gun owner could be charged with illegal transfer/straw purchase (stretch by they would have to prove you purchased it with the intent of illegally transferring it to someone else). The receiver of the gun in the household would be free and clear, as they and possess it under exemptions. All this being said, tie that into the fact there are laws on the books saying if you sell a gun to someone when you have good reason to believe they will use it illegally you can get into big trouble....

 

....so following your interpretation of the laws and taking into account the somewhat ambiguous nature of castle doctrine, resident's exemption et al, he was well within his rights not to sell me the pistol,if perhaps overly cautious. Ok ,I understand now,If he had only taken the time to explain that to me....

[M4BGRINGO 139]

That is rediculous. My wife knows the combination to our safe. Two of the hannguns in that safe were purchased using her Purchase Permits, the rest were purchased with mine. Each and every gun in there was paid-for by me. She can use any of those guns in there whenever she chooses to. If she needs a gun for a self-defense situation I don't think she will open each handgun bag to find the gun that "belongs" to her. She will whip-out whichever she grabs first.

[hd2000fxdl 422]

That is rediculous. My wife knows the combination to our safe. Two of the hannguns in that safe were purchased using her Purchase Permits, the rest were purchased with mine. Each and every gun in there was paid-for by me. She can use any of those guns in there whenever she chooses to. If she needs a gun for a self-defense situation I don't think she will open each handgun bag to find the gun that "belongs" to her. She will whip-out whichever she grabs first.

 

In a SHTF situation my wife can use any gun she wants, as they say, better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6 but as far as going to the rage, Handguns need to be with the owner, while she can shoot yours and you hers at the range you can bring her to the range to shoot without her and vise versa. It's BS and I hope that changes one day but it is what it is.

 

Now as far as being called on it, I doubt having her gun at the range is going to provoke any suspicion, and even if stopped by a LEO I doubt you it will even come into the conversation if you have gun if they are not in plain sight, but I wouldn't want to be the person caught to test this out. It sucks too, because I like my wifes Ruger MKIII Hunter better than my P22.

 

Harry

[Duppie 73]

That is rediculous. My wife knows the combination to our safe. Two of the hannguns in that safe were purchased using her Purchase Permits, the rest were purchased with mine. Each and every gun in there was paid-for by me. She can use any of those guns in there whenever she chooses to. If she needs a gun for a self-defense situation I don't think she will open each handgun bag to find the gun that "belongs" to her. She will whip-out whichever she grabs first.

 

I too believe it's ridiculous and if the occasion arises I have no doubt that my wife will use the firearm to protect herself regardless of the arcane and unjust laws NJ has on the books. My contention lies with a dealer snatching a firearm out of my hands without explanation after finding out I was purchasing it for OUR home defense. We have already discussed in ad nauseam about how nonsensical and unjust the laws are but have little choice but to protest but comply.

[Dan 177]

I was by no way defending the dealer's actions.. he was being rather extreme and overly paranoid, IMO. I was just rationalizing the thought process on how someone can be lead to act that way.

 

Some say I read too much into the statutes, and maybe I do, but it gives me insight on what the worst possible scenario/snafu that I could find myself in while living in the PRNJ.

 

In the end, if a loved one used your HG in your own home for self defense in a life threatening situation... I highly doubt the state will go for an illegal transfer charge.... again not to say the way they statutes are written that they couldn't.

[Duppie 73]

I was by no way defending the dealer's actions.. he was being rather extreme and overly paranoid, IMO. I was just rationalizing the thought process on how someone can be lead to act that way.

 

Some say I read too much into the statutes, and maybe I do, but it gives me insight on what the worst possible scenario/snafu that I could find myself in while living in the PRNJ.

 

In the end, if a loved one used your HG in your own home for self defense in a life threatening situation... I highly doubt the state will go for an illegal transfer charge.... again not to say the way they statutes are written that they couldn't.

 

That in it'self troubles me. I take precautions to protect myself and my own and then prosecuted for following a basic human instinct.....self preservation.

[M4BGRINGO 139]

I went to Sayreville Sportsman today to get a part for one of my shotguns, Joe (the owner) was very nice. He spent quite sometime digging-through his inventory to find it. Dave said hi as always. I was going to ask for a price on a revolver they have, the price on the tag was very high, but since I had no intention of buying it (already have that exact model), I decided to leave on a good note, unlike my last couple of visits. Still unsure of their pricing, but I'll leave that alone for now.

[gunguy1960 2]

Owner joe is a great guy, unfortunately when you build a good buisness you want to take time off and let others run the shop thats when problems happen. I SPENT THOUSANDS there, and then one day I go in to put a deposit on a used thousand dollar gun that was put aside for me and the guy behind the counter demands that I produce my firearms id card to leave a deposit he argues that thats the law, well they lost this customer after that.

[Duppie 73]

Owner joe is a great guy, unfortunately when you build a good buisness you want to take time off and let others run the shop thats when problems happen. I SPENT THOUSANDS there, and then one day I go in to put a deposit on a used thousand dollar gun that was put aside for me and the guy behind the counter demands that I produce my firearms id card to leave a deposit he argues that thats the law, well they lost this customer after that.

Revisiting this thread after all this time and reading that these issues persists just begs the question....How is Sayerville Sportsman still in business?

Are there so many myopic "Friendlies and Fuds" attracted to this clearly flawed business and proprietor to maintain itself?

I remain puzzled.

[Big Mack 5]

It was probably the same guy who told me that the clearly illegal MKA 1919 semi-auto style shotguns they had for sale was "completely legal as long as the round cap isn't over 5"??????? No sorry.... I can definitely see this happing at SS.

 

Not bashing them at all as i go there often and i do like the store and the people in there, and love supporting local shops, especially ones that support local ranges and clubs. I'v never gotten an attitude from anyone there either, i was always treated nicely there.

 

BUT i have gotten some pretty poor information in there before. Other examples of poor information iv gotten from them.

"The closest thing you can get to an AK47 legally in NJ is a Saiga .223 w/o the pistol grip and a 10rd mag"

"You won't be able to find 8mm mauser anywhere unless it's old surplus stuff"

(when asking for M1 Garand specific grade 30-06) "You can use whatever 30-06 you want." Although another guy there corrected him.

"The above mentioned auto loading shotty mishap"

and a few others over the years but you get the point I'm not gonna sit here and bash them into the ground.

[Maksim 1,504]

Because this is NJ. It is easier to become a drug dealer than a legal gun dealer. What this means, is that once you are licensed, you have to be braindead to NOT make money as an FFL. More and more people are buying guns, and just don't know.

[M4BGRINGO 139]

Always like reading your posts Duppie.

[Ray Ray 3,566]

Here it is in a nutshell. Some FFL's don't want to bother with anything that is even near the legal line. They are happy just selling guns that are no where near the legal/illegal line. ie, 1911s, bolt guns, pump shotguns.

 

Also, some FFL's aren't as pro 2A as we hope or need for that matter. So, take your money elsewhere. There are FFL's on this forum that are pro 2A and would welcome your business.

[Smokin .50 1,907]

Owner joe is a great guy, unfortunately when you build a good buisness you want to take time off and let others run the shop thats when problems happen. I SPENT THOUSANDS there, and then one day I go in to put a deposit on a used thousand dollar gun that was put aside for me and the guy behind the counter demands that I produce my firearms id card to leave a deposit he argues that thats the law, well they lost this customer after that.

 

I don't get it. I would have just produced my NJFID and gave them the deposit. I tend to read way too much over-reaction in some of these forum threads.

[Smokin .50 1,907]

Revisiting this thread after all this time and reading that these issues persists just begs the question....How is Sayerville Sportsman still in business?

Are there so many myopic "Friendlies and Fuds" attracted to this clearly flawed business and proprietor to maintain itself?

I remain puzzled.

 

In a word, YES! And I'm proud to say that I'm one of them! His regulars (myself among them) don't consider the place "flawed". NO PLACE is perfect. But Joe's is special. Need something he doesn't have, he'll order it. If he thinks it will sell if you never come back to buy it, he doesn't even want a deposit on it! Ask for something that you don't see, and like magic it can appear from behind the counter. Need something fixed, it gets fixed. Hard to find parts for the fix, and distributors are called to see what they have on their shelves. In the winter he sends one of the guys over to wawa for coffee, and this time of year there's always a cold bottle of water in the fridge. Some of us go there to hang-out or check the used inventory since things can come and go in the same day, and then figure-out what we need and buy it. He always has primers, cleaners and oil products and the sheer selection is mind-blowing and larger than shops twice the size! Last month I went there looking for a Neos .22 magazine for my son as a gift for his new first hand gun. Not a Neos in the store, but Joe KNEW he saw a mag somewhere, so he dug-around a little bit and viola, there it was on the counter, brand-new in the shrink wraped cardboard! Saved me a trip to another store or the minimum shipping charge of a mail-order joint. So that day I mailed my son his new magazine.......

 

Is the place PERFECT? NO! But at least you won't grow a beard waiting to be served by knowledgeable people who really care that you get what you ask for---OR will tell you to NOT buy something because it doesn't really work well and that they've had nothing but complaints about said item. In all of the times I've been there I've never witnessed any customer service problems, EXCEPT once: A couple came in to sell a shotgun that was already broken and then accused Joe and his staff of breaking it when they pointed out the problem! A "Get-Over Artist" if there ever was one!

 

The best advice I can give to everyone here is to just go into the store and buy something. Leave the chip on your shoulder in your car (about NJ laws, or whatever) and ask for what you want if you can't find it by just looking. IF you insist on spending 20 minutes getting your sweatty hand prints all over every gun in the case, and don't buy a gun, at least buy some cleaning supplies or SOMETHING. It helps to take the pain out of having to deal with you......and if you're there long enough you might just get offered a bottle of water!

 

Dave

One of "The Old Fudds"

[Ray Ray 3,566]

Dave

One of "The Old Fudds"

 

Which is why things will never change. Why one guy is getting treated like a king, the average joe like myself who's not in the cool will be pushed aside.

[Wolfy 51]

Just go to Tony from TJsporting knowledgeable and friendly.

 

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2

[Smokin .50 1,907]

Which is why things will never change. Why one guy is getting treated like a king, the average joe like myself who's not in the cool will be pushed aside.

 

When the offer of water or coffee is made, it's a store-wide offer, NOT for just THE KING, lol! NOBODY gets "pushed aside" Ray. Not even a person just looking for worms or a dollars' worth of fishing hooks!

 

He's been there at the same location longer than some on this forum have been on the Planet. He has plenty of business, so something is working......

 

The store supports all types of good causes, including special events held at several local clubs. Well worth the support and consideration from this community IMHO.

[Duppie 73]

In a word, YES! And I'm proud to say that I'm one of them! His regulars (myself among them) don't consider the place "flawed". NO PLACE is perfect. But Joe's is special. Need something he doesn't have, he'll order it. If he thinks it will sell if you never come back to buy it, he doesn't even want a deposit on it! Ask for something that you don't see, and like magic it can appear from behind the counter. Need something fixed, it gets fixed. Hard to find parts for the fix, and distributors are called to see what they have on their shelves. In the winter he sends one of the guys over to wawa for coffee, and this time of year there's always a cold bottle of water in the fridge. Some of us go there to hang-out or check the used inventory since things can come and go in the same day, and then figure-out what we need and buy it. He always has primers, cleaners and oil products and the sheer selection is mind-blowing and larger than shops twice the size! Last month I went there looking for a Neos .22 magazine for my son as a gift for his new first hand gun. Not a Neos in the store, but Joe KNEW he saw a mag somewhere, so he dug-around a little bit and viola, there it was on the counter, brand-new in the shrink wraped cardboard! Saved me a trip to another store or the minimum shipping charge of a mail-order joint. So that day I mailed my son his new magazine.......

 

Is the place PERFECT? NO! But at least you won't grow a beard waiting to be served by knowledgeable people who really care that you get what you ask for---OR will tell you to NOT buy something because it doesn't really work well and that they've had nothing but complaints about said item. In all of the times I've been there I've never witnessed any customer service problems, EXCEPT once: A couple came in to sell a shotgun that was already broken and then accused Joe and his staff of breaking it when they pointed out the problem! A "Get-Over Artist" if there ever was one!

 

The best advice I can give to everyone here is to just go into the store and buy something. Leave the chip on your shoulder in your car (about NJ laws, or whatever) and ask for what you want if you can't find it by just looking. IF you insist on spending 20 minutes getting your sweatty hand prints all over every gun in the case, and don't buy a gun, at least buy some cleaning supplies or SOMETHING. It helps to take the pain out of having to deal with you......and if you're there long enough you might just get offered a bottle of water!

 

Dave

One of "The Old Fudds"

In the year I've been a member of NJGF,I have grown to anticipate and value your posts but we are on the opposite poles on SS. I am glad, as are you, that you are among the chosen ones and hold Joe in such high regard. I and many before me realize that the man is a mental deficient and/or lacking enough social skills to survive outside of his dusty, disorganized realm. He is indeed "special", your word not mine.

I envy you your hot coffee,cold water,and sympathetic ear but would much rather a fair price,honest and knowledgeable sales help and above all fair and even service by a lucid proprietor/owner.

[Anselmo 87]

Here it is in a nutshell. Some FFL's don't want to bother with anything that is even near the legal line. They are happy just selling guns that are no where near the legal/illegal line. ie, 1911s, bolt guns, pump shotguns.

 

Also, some FFL's aren't as pro 2A as we hope or need for that matter. So, take your money elsewhere. There are FFL's on this forum that are pro 2A and would welcome your business.

 

It is certainly a FFL's prerogative to not sell a firearm they deem to be in a grey area regarding legality. I can respect any FFL saying that. I can't respect an FFL saying it's illegal when it's in a grey area. That there is the issue. More irritating to me is people that are 100% confident they are right when they are wrong. They don't to learn. Nappen could give an annual course on current NJ gun law for FFL's to keep up to date. It's up to FFLs to keep up to date but the ones that think they know everything won't be the ones to take a course.

[checko 180]

 

 

IF you insist on spending 20 minutes getting your sweatty hand prints all over every gun in the case, and don't buy a gun, at least buy some cleaning supplies or SOMETHING. It helps to take the pain out of having to deal with you...

 

 

That sentence has one fatal flaw in terms of running a business. If it is a pain to deal with an inquisitive customer, then your customer service sucks and it will show. There are a few shops that have been talked about at length which will bend over backwards, not just to make a sale, but to inform and satisfy a customer. I can spend my money anywhere I want, and few people spend it where they are viewed as an annoyance.