Tea Party

[KpdPipes 388]

Insert sound from jeopardy. Sorry wrong answer.

 

Self defense is a right. Freedom of speech is a right. Freedom of religion is a right. Pursuit of happiness is s right.

 

Are you implying that God enumerated you with the right to own a firearm??? Can that be equated to him allowing you to own a car???

 

Sorry but firearms ownership in this day and age is a privilege ...... Like it or not....

 

And until you treat it as such and work within those parameters you will be considered on the fringe and discounted as a gun toting wacko.

 

Not that I disagree mind you but ur statement is slightly overzealous IMO.

Don't ever leave NJ...you might not survive the shock of America.

[StarWarsGeek45 5]

There is a reason that the founders worded the second amendment the way they did. They were aware that technology changes and weapons would come about that they had not foreseen. And they made it quite clear that the right to keep and bear arms - be it muskets, machine guns, knives, or knuckle dusters - shall not be infringed.

 

Many of the cannons used in the revolutionary war were privately owned - the citizens owned weapons on par with what the military owned and the founders had no problem with it. So Ray Ray, forget about the MAC10 bro, the founders feel an M4 would be much more fitting!

 

Oh, and a pre-emptive strike against the usual "well I guess that means you can own nukes and F-22s and tanks then, right?" No, it doesn't, because the founders in their writing made clear that the concept was for small arms in personal use, not crew-served weapons.

 

Furthermore, the concept of militia makes more sense with citizens owning military type weapons - they can train and become proficient on their own, and if ever called on to fight, would have a small bit of proficiency.

 

I'm not sure where "firearm ownership is a privilege" is coming from. Maybe the government of states like NJ feel like we ought to be like the Soviet Union when it comes to guns. Maybe you feel that average people should have to take time off work and pay hundreds of their hard earned dollars in fees for licenses and training. Maybe you feel that the second amendment was just because the founders thought duck hunting was realllllyyyy important.

 

But last I checked this is the USA and each and every one of us, even those of us whose governments prohibit us from exercising our rights, has a god given right to turn money into noise and smoke with whatever gun the damn bloody hell they feel like.

[Old School 611]

Um, WRONG ANSWER Mr. Maks

 

"The right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" What part of that do you not understand sir?

 

 

To all those that consider gun ownership a priviledge... You are the problem!

 

Yes you HAVE the right to tote a Mac 10. And, that right is being infringed upon.

[tbtrout 141]

 

 

I'm a gun guy. But I believe in sensible licensing.

And that statement is why we have been going downhill. Trying to cozy up to the opposing side by sounding reasonable only lends credence to their argument. Words mean things, say what you mean and mean what you say. Leave double speak to the other crowd. Stand up for it or leave it alone, half assing the argument never works.

[HavocMan 13]

Wow - this thread has gone in three different directions...

 

A few folks have thrown the 'racist' tag at the Tea Party. Can someone please provide a reference showing or documenting Tea Party racism?

 

When did gun ownership become a priveledge? Isn't the Second Amendment still in the Bill Of Rights?

 

Han Shot First!!

 

 

...and I'll just add one more thought: we need to stick together gang. Don't let the left split us apart. They know that setting us against one another is the ONLY way they can beat us.

[BlackOps Badger 52]

I don't believe that Nick was trying to say that gun ownership is a priveledge. I think some may have taken it out of context. In the original post he that that THIS DAY IN AGE it's a priveledge, like it or not. Especially in this state it's a priveledge not a right, with FIDs, COEs, Pistol Permits, etc. I understand where he is coming from. I personally agree that it's a right, but if that's the case, why all the red tape? Why do we need references? Why do we need an FID? Because the people that were elected decided that that's what we need. Instead of arguing amongst ourselves why can't we all just agree to disagree. I've been on this sight for awhile now and I've never seen more negative rep in one thread than I have until now. Everyone has their own ideas. Everyone has there own thought process. Do I think it's a right to own guns? Absolutely. Do I think everyone in the US should have a gun. No, because there are people out there that don't have the maturity for it whether they are 13 years old or 53 years old. So why can't everyone cut the crap and instead of saying "No you're wrong", and go with something a little easier and say something like "I see where you're coming from, but..." Everyone please remember that we are all here for one reason. Guns. We all love them whether we collect antique war relics, or the new cool mall ninja guns. This is one place online where up until now everyone seemed like family. Now I see people bashing each other for what they feel. People that I have seen in other threads talking to each other like they were family. AND WE ARE FAMILY. We are the gun owning, gun toting, family of New Jersey. Tea Party, Republican Party, Democratic Party, whatever. Get over it. Nobody is better than anyone else on this board. Lets try to keep it a little more civil. And remember, we've all gone through the same paper work on this board (except maybe mipafox, lol). Let's keep it civil.

 

P.S.-

1. This section is not for the discussion of ANY Politics or Religion.

[Ricky Bobby 0]

 

P.S.-1. This section is not for the discussion of ANY Politics or Religion

 

 

+1000

[Ray Ray 3,566]

I would respond to what Maks said, but everyone else has done it for me. +1 to those gentlemen

[Guest]

Don't ever leave NJ...you might not survive the shock of America.

 

I'm counting my days to get out of here. I cannot wait.

 

I'm well aware of what the REAL America is like and it beats what goes on in this state hands down

 

:-)

 

That's why I'm outta here when I can

[Guest]

I don't believe that Nick was trying to say that gun ownership is a priveledge. I think some may have taken it out of context. In the original post he that that THIS DAY IN AGE it's a priveledge, like it or not. Especially in this state it's a priveledge not a right, with FIDs, COEs, Pistol Permits, etc. I understand where he is coming from. I personally agree that it's a right, but if that's the case, why all the red tape? Why do we need references? Why do we need an FID? Because the people that were elected decided that that's what we need. Instead of arguing amongst ourselves why can't we all just agree to disagree. I've been on this sight for awhile now and I've never seen more negative rep in one thread than I have until now. Everyone has their own ideas. Everyone has there own thought process. Do I think it's a right to own guns? Absolutely. Do I think everyone in the US should have a gun. No, because there are people out there that don't have the maturity for it whether they are 13 years old or 53 years old. So why can't everyone cut the crap and instead of saying "No you're wrong", and go with something a little easier and say something like "I see where you're coming from, but..." Everyone please remember that we are all here for one reason. Guns. We all love them whether we collect antique war relics, or the new cool mall ninja guns. This is one place online where up until now everyone seemed like family. Now I see people bashing each other for what they feel. People that I have seen in other threads talking to each other like they were family. AND WE ARE FAMILY. We are the gun owning, gun toting, family of New Jersey. Tea Party, Republican Party, Democratic Party, whatever. Get over it. Nobody is better than anyone else on this board. Lets try to keep it a little more civil. And remember, we've all gone through the same paper work on this board (except maybe mipafox, lol). Let's keep it civil.

 

P.S.-

 

Thank you thank you thank you

 

You get my point. It's just grand when bubba brings a shotgun in for some work and he has no muzzle discipline and then when you finally get hold of it and look it happens to be loaded!! Yep I want HIM running around with a full auto weapon.

 

All it takes is one or two like him to bring it all crashing down for the rest of us.

 

Further I believe my opinion has been misconstrued and not understood.

 

Until you get the career politicians out of office. Until you get those who legislate up to speed about what exactly they are making laws about. YOU are fighting an uphill battle.

[Guest]

And that statement is why we have been going downhill. Trying to cozy up to the opposing side by sounding reasonable only lends credence to their argument. Words mean things, say what you mean and mean what you say. Leave double speak to the other crowd. Stand up for it or leave it alone, half assing the argument never works.

 

Brother I disagree......I am not trying to be cozy with the other side. I'm not parsing words. Not using double speak

 

I mean what I say and I always say what I mean.

 

I am not about limiting firearms ownership BUT (yes big but) for goodness sake some sembelance of order in the process must be undertaken. As I stated training. Licensing. Etc. With the positions placed here it can be argued that we should all just get behind the wheel of a car zip around with no insurance training etc. Where is the difference. Why is it ok for the gov the make those requirements for a vehicle and not for a firearm?

 

 

But like I started this thread absolutism DOES NOT WORK

You may just be surprised if the all

Or nothing mindset is dropped what may be achieved

 

 

Again rights like it or not have been turned into a privilege

Work within those confines. Yet also work to change that mindset and those privileges back to rights

 

Last time. ABSOLUTISM DOESN'T WORK

 

:-)

[hd2000fxdl 422]

Sorry but firearms ownership in this day and age is a privilege ...... Like it or not....

 

 

When was the 2A re-written, I missed that!!

 

The 2A is as it is, there is not conditional 2A, period, regardless of how we are made to feel in the PRNJ it is not supposed to be this way and hopefully it will change, but please and I know your a gun guy and all, but don't let our crappy state make you think the 2A is any different than it was written as acknowledged by many of the other states in the free USA.

 

Harry

[Guest]

When was the 2A re-written, I missed that!!

 

The 2A is as it is, there is not conditional 2A, period, regardless of how we are made to feel in the PRNJ it is not supposed to be this way and hopefully it will change, but please and I know your a gun guy and all, but don't let our crappy state make you think the 2A is any different than it was written as acknowledged by many of the other states in the free USA.

 

Harry

 

Harry you are missing my point.... I am NOT about parsing the 2a, I am NOT about BANNING our rights under the 2a.... And frankly I did not even call it a privilege RAY RAY did

 

My exact quote:

 

 

 

I believe in the 2a. I believe in private firearms ownership. Do I believe that we should all be allowed to run around with full auto mac10's, no. Do I believe that there should be licensing, education, training to own firearms, yes

But I also believe that there should be 100% ccw nationwide if I provide the training insurance competency etc set on specific guidelines. THE PROBLEM IS THE EXTREMES ARE DICTATING THE AGENDA

 

 

 

 

Ray-Ray's words NOT mine....or his interpretation of mine....

 

It's a right, not a privilege. What do you NOT understand? I should be able to buy said Mac 10 in full auto in a SBR and with lots of stick mags AND carry it outside, TODAY!

Driving is a privilege, where rules and regulations are set since it's not a RIGHT.

 

 

So with that this poor thread has been totally hijacked.......

 

To summarize my point(s) and to hopefully engage in the free and open exchange of ideas.....jeezus if we can't do it here where can we do it...........and to harken back to the original point of the thread... ** MY OPINION ** right or wrong is that ABSOLUTISM in any form....abortion, guns, budget, liberal agenda, conservative agenda etc DOES NOT WORK....

 

To continue with the gun portion of this thread.....

 

Extreme left wants to ban all private firearms ownership in the USA....... That is ABSOLUTISM and again it will not work.....

 

Extreme right wants to have you be able to walk into the drug store and buy an, oh i dunno an UZI with no paperwork etc.. That again is ABSOLUTISM and will not work.........

 

Somewhere in the middle is the answer......again the EXTREMES are dictating the agenda to the detriment of the rest of us.......

 

Considering this, once you get all the POLITICIANS who cater to the extremes and toss them out. Until you get the special interests under control. Until you get the power hungry career government folks gone.... you will have ABSOLUTISM and like I said it does not work....

 

Thank you and back to your regular scheduled programming.....me I am going up to the shop to play with some guns then I am going to the range to shoot....exercising my right to have some fun with guns and train my shooting skills in a state that has made it a privilege to do so.....

[BlackOps Badger 52]

When was the 2A re-written, I missed that!!

 

The 2A is as it is, there is not conditional 2A, period, regardless of how we are made to feel in the PRNJ it is not supposed to be this way and hopefully it will change, but please and I know your a gun guy and all, but don't let our crappy state make you think the 2A is any different than it was written as acknowledged by many of the other states in the free USA.

 

Harry

 

You missed Nick's point. I'm going to rephrase what Nick said because it keeps getting taken out of context.

 

I believe what Nick is saying is "This day and age our leaders have decided that firearms ownership is a priveledge and not a right."

 

Nick, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that's what you meant and nobody seems to get.

[Underdog 1,593]

It's a right, not a privilege. What do you NOT understand? I should be able to buy said Mac 10 in full auto in a SBR and with lots of stick mags AND carry it outside, TODAY!

Driving is a privilege, where rules and regulations are set since it's not a RIGHT.

 

 

I agree, Ray Ray. It is a right that the state cannot infringe upon, but it does. Anything our Military and Police can possess, WE the PEOPLE should be allowed to have. Those that do wrong with this and abuse this right should get a due processed and actually punished. That sentence should be a deterrent.

[tbtrout 141]

Finally words with actions. Round em up and kick em out. My favorite sentence in the whole damn thread, closely followed by Han shot first.

Obviously some chucklehead has not been here long enough to know my sarcasm, or when I am trying to lighten a situiation. Some people need more tequila.

[Underdog 1,593]

Finally words with actions. Round em up and kick em out. My favorite sentence in the whole damn thread, closely followed by Han shot first.

 

 

This AMERICAN president and his merry men would do this to his opponents if he could get away with it.