The state of shooting clubs and ranges in New Jersey and the USA...

[Maksim 1,504]

The whole point of the thread is that the old timers will eventually die off, and the question is: will they take the sport with them by taking their ranges with them, and by alienating the younger folks and the newer shooting disciplines? Guns are one component of the equation, but a place to practice is the other.

 

 

and once again, you are sorely wrong. go to the matches, and you will see plenty of young people there. Keep in mind, your average 20 year old wants to go blow money on either hookers and booze, or will spend it on smokes, or something else. They balk at buying a quality firearm, or god forbid a gun membership.

 

No one is alienating the younger folks, younger folks are not committed enough to firearms, but they will in time.

[Maksim 1,504]

The thing that gets me is: while I don't particularly care or understand why a 'FUDD' likes to squeeze every bit of accuracy out of a rifle by shooting it once every hour, I'm not gonna tell him he can't do it. What I'm trying to get at is: they should also give a bit of lee-way to the newer, younger generation of shooters. Especially if it means gearing ranges and clubs toward accepting those types.

 

Give an example. There are plenty of action type matches around the state. There is at least 1 USPSA/IDPA match per weekend in the immediate nj area.

 

the other rules are based on safety.

[DevsAdvocate 112]

Yep, plus 1 Eric.

 

I really dislike where this topic is grouping people into one camp or another. DA, I really think you need to come out to more forum meetups, and various events, you will see how there are young guys participating in vintage matches, and older folks trying action shooting.

 

If you want to group people, I would try...

 

a. Hunters

b. Casual Shooters (your once every few months, to then twice year, bought a gun because they wanted to one day, and then essentially quit the sport, but still have the gun.

c. Serious Hobby (will typically try to shoot a few times a month, or more, will typically have a ranger membership at a private range, and will stick mostly to their own game (be it pistols, ar's, bolt actions, shotguns) and hang in their circle of people. Will occasionaly shoot their other guns.

d. Competitors (Skeet, Trap, NRA High Power, Bullseye, USPSA, IDPA, Cowboy Action) All that matters is their little game, no one else, or anything else really matters.

e. Purpose/LE/Tactical - Firearms are a tool, want to be as proficient at it as possible, training first.

f. Collectors - it is mostly about amassing a collection. Not even as much about shooting them, but the history aspect.

 

 

You can always find people in those groups, however the simple 1.0 vs 2.0 is assinine. It is not as cut and dry as that. The guys who are coming into gun owners, and the ones you typically see at a public range, or messing around with their tacticool black rifle with a glock on their hip holster, will typically fail out of the hobby one way or another. They are the least safe people and the reason why I don't feel safe at a public range. (yep, the ones who insist on using a scope at 20 yards (besides sighting it in), and need to have every accessory on the gun, yet can't shoot for crap. yep, also the ones insisting on shooting birdshot out of a shotgun at an indoor range. You know, the ones that know everything about the sport, drinking the Glock coolaid.

 

If this is 2.0, god help this sport.

 

 

Oh lord, they're just posing for a few photos, cut them some slack. lol

[Maksim 1,504]

Btw, just a comment, you do know you are insulting half the people on the forum with those fudd comments. Furthermore, have you ever even shot a good bolt action rifle past 100 yards? =) Accuracy is fun. =)

 

Even better, 200 yards plus open sights.

[Soju 153]

Keep in mind, your average 20 year old wants to go blow money on either hookers and booze,

 

Yep! I like where this is going...

 

or will spend it on smokes, or something else.

 

I don't smoke but can't argue here.

 

 

They balk at buying a quality firearm, or god forbid a gun membership.

 

What?!? Come on now. I would say this would hold true for those that you know, don't have money yet.

 

No one is alienating the younger folks,

 

If by 'no one' you mean 'not many people', then I agree. But there actually are people who alienate young folks, just as their are people who alienate old farts, I mean folks, also. These few are this Generation 1.0. They are what I like to call, members of the 'good ole boys club'. They are not exclusive to firearms and shooting. You see them in businesses, politics, the military, clubs, you name it. They do exist though.

 

 

younger folks are not committed enough to firearms, but they will in time.

 

Some certainly aren't, and that is too bad. Some are though. Some would like to be but simply don't have the resources, money, or time to be.

[Jon 264]

I really don't know where all of the "us vs them" attitude is coming from. Where are you getting crap from older guys? Which ranges are they? My club is 80% or more bullseye shooters. They prefer putting 10 rounds in a 2" circle at 25yds over the span of an hour, but always make a point of checking out the guns that I bring, and giving me props for them. It seems like in your circles, these guys should be telling me to go home when I practice my split times, which they never do.

[hd2000fxdl 422]

Keep in mind, your average 20 year old wants to go blow money on either hookers and booze, .

 

I couldn't let this pass, and you will soon realize yourself married guy, Hookers and booze was cheaper..... ROFLMAO

 

Just kidding I wouldn't change my OL for nothing.

 

Now as far as the topic, I like Frank's idea from NJ2AS, we are all different in what we like, but we all share the right to have our firearms and not be controlled.

No matter what we like, the other group isn't better and worse, they are just different and we all need to get together on getting our rights restored and until we do our individual voices may be too small to make things happen, but at least we have groups like NJ2AS and others who are trying to get us together.

 

It will really suck if we the different shooing communities continue to be our own worst enemy.

 

Harry

[djg0770 481]

Good God people. You act like this is the only hobby with "Factions".

 

Pit the Mustang guys against the Camaro guys who arguably are in the "same" sport.

 

Pit the Naturally Aspirated crowd against the Turbo crowd against the Supercharger crowd.

 

Pit the Blow Boats against the Power Boats.

 

and the lists go on and on and on.

 

 

The problem here is that no one (other than your wallet and finances) tries to limit your participation in any of the above mentioned sports - except of course for this one. We need a solid Uniter not a Divider to lead our people out of Captivity. Currently, we are roaming the desert eating whatever scraps our government throws us. I hope someday soon we reach our promised land . So, who will be our Moses?

[Ray Ray 3,566]

So, who will be our Moses?

 

That will be me Daniel.

[Shane45 807]

Factions arent the issue and frankly I probably belong to most of them. I own or have owned just about everything from a Hawkin black powder all the way to rifles capable of accurate fire over 1 mile. I think there is only one salient point in this entire thread. Which would make it only 2 groups:

 

Group a that is accepting and supportive of all shooting sports no matter the faction and stands up for all 2A rights.

Group b thst is only for their faction and does not support the existance of other factions such as black rifles and are short sighted enough to think their faction is safe and willing to sacrifice other factions in a belief theirs will remain safe.

 

The task at hand is how to convince group b that we either all stand free together or swing in the gallows individually. It matters not who is first in line, they will ALL swing if devided. One only need to shift his gaze to Europe to see the effectiveness of this strategy to dismantle gun ownership.....

[jmat1980 0]

Yep, plus 1 Eric.

 

I really dislike where this topic is grouping people into one camp or another. DA, I really think you need to come out to more forum meetups, and various events, you will see how there are young guys participating in vintage matches, and older folks trying action shooting.

 

If you want to group people, I would try...

 

a. Hunters

b. Casual Shooters (your once every few months, to then twice year, bought a gun because they wanted to one day, and then essentially quit the sport, but still have the gun.

c. Serious Hobby (will typically try to shoot a few times a month, or more, will typically have a ranger membership at a private range, and will stick mostly to their own game (be it pistols, ar's, bolt actions, shotguns) and hang in their circle of people. Will occasionaly shoot their other guns.

d. Competitors (Skeet, Trap, NRA High Power, Bullseye, USPSA, IDPA, Cowboy Action) All that matters is their little game, no one else, or anything else really matters.

e. Purpose/LE/Tactical - Firearms are a tool, want to be as proficient at it as possible, training first.

f. Collectors - it is mostly about amassing a collection. Not even as much about shooting them, but the history aspect.

 

 

You can always find people in those groups, however the simple 1.0 vs 2.0 is assinine. It is not as cut and dry as that. The guys who are coming into gun owners, and the ones you typically see at a public range, or messing around with their tacticool black rifle with a glock on their hip holster, will typically fail out of the hobby one way or another. They are the least safe people and the reason why I don't feel safe at a public range. (yep, the ones who insist on using a scope at 20 yards (besides sighting it in), and need to have every accessory on the gun, yet can't shoot for crap. yep, also the ones insisting on shooting birdshot out of a shotgun at an indoor range. You know, the ones that know everything about the sport, drinking the Glock coolaid.

 

If this is 2.0, god help this sport.

 

 

I agree...grouping people into just two groups is rediculous..

 

There are always going to be gear queers that just want everything black and tactical and will never learn how to properly use their weapons. There are many other types of people who have firearms for a variety of reasons...

[raz-0 1,259]

The thing that gets me is: while I don't particularly care or understand why a 'FUDD' likes to squeeze every bit of accuracy out of a rifle by shooting it once every hour, I'm not gonna tell him he can't do it. What I'm trying to get at is: they should also give a bit of lee-way to the newer, younger generation of shooters. Especially if it means gearing ranges and clubs toward accepting those types.

 

I think part of the reason why your premise is falling down in this venue is because NJ isn't the home of fudd. Fudd was dragged out back and kicked to death a while ago. For example, the CJ board is some of the most fudd like characters I know. Yet any fight I have had with them isn't about them having any malice towards us, but simply from a complete lack of understanding what we do and why we do it. I think at the heart of it, NJ is so hostile to us that there are very few factions of gun ownership that are happier fighting with another gun owning group than with the politicians.

 

I've heard plenty of other USPSA MDs gripe about the fudds and have to put up with gobs more hassle and hostility than we do in NJ, and USPSA is the poster child for "gun culture 2.0" since 1970-something.

 

I think the only relevant discussion of gunculture 1.0 vs. 2.0 is mostly in where growth in the shooting population is coming from. Hunting is on the decline, and although concealed carry has been around forever, the greater availability of low-hassle, legal CCW has a bunch of new shooters going form no experience to joining for SD reasons than ever before. Although movies and TV probably have driven some percentage of new shooters in the market, video games are becoming a ubiquitous part of the cultural backdrop for each successive crop of kids. With that, not only are guns cool, but people's experience with them are more experiential than in decades past where it was just movies and TV. As an illustrative fact that 1.0 vs 2.0 doesn't illustrate some cultural divide is that 2.0 showed up and there were things like USPSA, IDPA, 3-gun, etc already here ready and waiting.

[StarWarsGeek45 5]

2.0 checking in here. I shoot at a private club in PA with mostly 1.0s and get plenty of dirty looks from OFWGs with lever guns twice my age.

 

I have one message to them, it starts with an F and ends in U. Sorry gram'paw.

[tom catman 0]

from the western movie shane.....a gun is a tool......im a 1.5 'er..... i go shootin with older folks who deserve their respect from being in wwII.you people who must seperate 1.0 as fudds and ofwg"s are only seperating yourselves as being yfwp'ers.we all enjoy ourselves with our own preferences in guns,and your attitudes are not unnoticed.maybe thats why the folks sneer at u.and from another forum there is a sticky about being nice to the new on the forum obviously there is a lot to be learned on this forum.i commented on cr"s cameras and was thrashed by a few here.no wonder people call this forum a liberals forum.

[Maksim 1,504]

2.0 checking in here. I shoot at a private club in PA with mostly 1.0s and get plenty of dirty looks from OFWGs with lever guns twice my age.

 

I have one message to them, it starts with an F and ends in U. Sorry gram'paw.

 

 

Yes, very mature of you. Don't you freaking think before even posting anything? Have you bothered to think maybe there is another reason why they give you dirty looks?

 

Treat people the way you would want to be treated.

 

Your last comment... really shows your ignorance. Lets put aside the fact that most people here disagree with the whole 1.0/2.0 premise, you go ahead and insult a large group of people, many of whom are on the forum here as well. Smart.

 

 

 

from the western movie shane.....a gun is a tool......im a 1.5 'er..... i go shootin with older folks who deserve their respect from being in wwII.you people who must seperate 1.0 as fudds and ofwg"s are only seperating yourselves as being yfwp'ers.we all enjoy ourselves with our own preferences in guns,and your attitudes are not unnoticed.maybe thats why the folks sneer at u.and from another forum there is a sticky about being nice to the new on the forum obviously there is a lot to be learned on this forum.i commented on cr"s cameras and was thrashed by a few here.no wonder people call this forum a liberals forum.

 

Aside the piss poor grammar, (sorry dan, took your job) I had no problems with you until the highlighted part.

 

I am sorry that people don't agree with you in one respect or another. WTF does it have to do with anything even remotely in the topic here? You have people both old and young, experienced and inexperienced with you and against you on the CR cameras.

 

As far as the politics, don't even know why I am entertaining you with this, but the forum voted 80% for McCaine, 15% Obama, and 5% did not vote. The people were all either registered Republicans, or Third Party. (A pole was done in the politics section)

 

The whole premise of the forum if you all have not noticed it yet, and the big difference between us and almost anywhere else, we are a social forum, where the forum is an extension of the natural friendships formed, and supports the gun BS when we are away from actually shooting and getting together with other forum members.

 

This is not a place by any means for internet commandos to flex their muscles. Funny and don't take this the wrong way, but almost anyone is within a few hours drive of a beatdown.

 

For that reason, in the almost 3 years we been around, I am not aware of any deals in the marketplace that went sour. Eventually the big personalities do not stick on too long, because they would be afraid to show their face in public and have people connect themselves to their whining/moronic/crazy/annoying/whatever persona as they painted upon themselves behind the keyboard. There is only so long a time frame you can keep up the persona before people start forgetting you, or stop taking you seriously as no one ever met you.

 

 

If you think about it, the two posters here back to back, are more alike than the same. Both so blinded by their opinion, and dead set in their ways to realize its not a black and white world. As per your own definition, you are both 1.0 (although we all agree for the most part these 1.0/2.0 definitions are wrong and grossly misrepresented)

 

Sidenote, the OP is one of those that has been around for a long long time, yet almost no one ever met him.

[Melgamatic 66]

As far as the politics, don't even know why I am entertaining you with this, but the forum voted 80% for McCaine, 15% Obama, and 5% did not vote. The people were all either registered Republicans, or Third Party. (A pole was done in the politics section)

 

That poll is not very scientific, and I wouldn't quote it. A Democrat, or someone who voted for Obama, is not likely to expose themselves on this forum.

[Maksim 1,504]

That poll is not very scientific, and I wouldn't quote it. A Democrat, or someone who voted for Obama, is not likely to expose themselves on this forum.

 

I give you that. But alas, we digress. =)

 

Strike the whole comments I made about the forum and politics. =)

[hd2000fxdl 422]

I started as a .09 and over time moved up to 1.0 then a 1.001 to 1.002, tried the 2.0 and even got wild and experimented with 2.001 and 20.002 but that was too crazy for be so I dropped back to 1.990 and then 1.897, I like it a little and said this is ok but I am still ok with each of the 1.1's 1.2, 1.3's and a little odd but they are ok, some of the 1.4's are good, but you know every crowd has there good's and bad's. 1.5 seem a little too middle of the road and can go either way and as they would say on Seinfeld (not there is anything wrong with that) I preferred to skip over and see what 1.6 was all about, did a little partying with a 1.7 and 1.8 and they were cool also.

 

Overall I like the 1.0's and the 2.0's and all the in betweens also, well watch out for the real middle of the road 1.5's like I said, but in the end we are all into the same thing when it's all said and done anyway.

 

And that make about as much sense as this thread..

[raz-0 1,259]

2.0 checking in here. I shoot at a private club in PA with mostly 1.0s and get plenty of dirty looks from OFWGs with lever guns twice my age.

 

I have one message to them, it starts with an F and ends in U. Sorry gram'paw.

 

 

Keep telling yoruself it's because of the gun if it makes you feel better.

[StarWarsGeek45 5]

Keep telling yoruself it's because of the gun if it makes you feel better.

 

I've been told specifically it's the gun. I've had Fudds take a break from their lead sled to come tell me "that rifle's no good for hunting". I've had them tell me I need to shoot brass ammo because I should be reloading my ammo. I've had to wait fifteen minutes to go downrange so a guy could take ONE MORE SHOT. One more shot in 15 minutes.

 

You can say what you like, in defense of the OFWGs, but this is nothing new. Charleton Heston was telling them to cool it fifteen years ago - look up the "Torch with no flame" speech he gave.

[tom catman 0]

yes i guess u r right. we are both alike but on different sides of the street.callin the other side names.the term democrat came from the ar15 site with the cr cameras being discussed.you probabally have met me at cr. im the one who sits behind his .50 bmg every week.thursdays.come and see,i am a grouch.but you will probally get to shoot the fifty also if you care too.so what does that say about me?im still on the fence about this forum due to the beatings ive gotten here in just 7 posts.maybe you are not the great bunch you think u are.just the typical n.j.b.s. artists.

[hd2000fxdl 422]

yes i guess u r right. we are both alike but on different sides of the street.callin the other side names.the term democrat came from the ar15 site with the cr cameras being discussed.you probabally have met me at cr. im the one who sits behind his .50 bmg every week.thursdays.come and see,i am a grouch.but you will probally get to shoot the fifty also if you care too.so what does that say about me?im still on the fence about this forum due to the beatings ive gotten here in just 7 posts.maybe you are not the great bunch you think u are.just the typical n.j.b.s. artists.

 

Tom, don;t judge so quick, I appreciate the offer if I ever run into on the 50BMG, but I am not sure where you got beat up on your posts, I haven't seen the or at least didn't notice them, and it's not normally the way, but understand that we all have opinions and sometime when we state them in a thread that my be a little heated at the moment it can be take the wrong way. Especially when people see a low post count and don't know you,, yet..

 

Take it for what it's worth, it's a forum, sometimes people assume things but do yourself a favor, give it some time and look around, there are lots a great people here, a lot of good info and you jumping up and saying your the Grouch with the 50, I'll take that as I would with old bikers, they have been around the block and have some to teach the young-ins. Also remember there are A$$holes in every crowd, and you just need to weed out who is one who isn't.

[Ray Ray 3,566]

A Democrat, or someone who voted for Obama, is not likely to expose themselves on this forum.

 

You would be surprised, I have encountered a few on this forum. Although I won't call them out on here about the issue.

[tom catman 0]

yes i also take an ar with .22 lr adapter in a bag to the range on my harley.

[hd2000fxdl 422]

yes i also take an ar with .22 lr adapter in a bag to the range on my harley.

 

What's your ride, I'm down to a 08 Ultra and an 83 Kick only Shovel, had a bunch of old sleds but family and responsibility cut me down to only 2 bikes.