Judge upholds NJ carry laws

[PeteF 1,044]

As expected

 

 

On Friday, January 13, 2012, a U.S. District Judge sitting in Newark dismissed the ANJRPC / SAF federal lawsuit challenging New Jersey’s extreme and subjective handgun carry laws, which have all but eliminated the right to self defense with a firearm outside the home in the Garden State.

 

Judge William H. Walls (a Clinton appointee) ruled that "the Second Amendment does not include a general right to carry handguns outside the home.” Characterizing the Second Amendment, he wrote "that privilege is unique among all other constitutional rights to the individual because it permits the user of a firearm to cause serious personal injury – including the ultimate injury, death – to other individuals, rightly or wrongly.”

 

In upholding the New Jersey law which effectively denies the right to carry a firearm for self defense outside the home, Judge Walls wrote "the protection of citizens from potentially lethal force is compelling.”

 

"The judge has it backwards,” said ANJRPC President Scott Bach. "If he really cared about protecting citizens from lethal force, he wouldn’t be interfering with their constitutional right to defend themselves against violent criminals,” said Bach. "Ironically, the U.S. Supreme Court has repeatedly held that the police owe no duty to protect individual citizens, so you’re on your own when you step outside your home,” continued Bach. "This decision wrongly demonizes those who want to take responsibility for their own safety and turns all but a privileged few into helpless victims.”

 

The full text of Judge Walls’ decision is available here.

 

"The anti-gun bench hates the Heller decision, so it’s no surprise that some judges will stretch legal interpretation to the breaking point to limit or neutralize Heller,” said Bach, referring to the groundbreaking 2008 Supreme Court case which held that the Second Amendment protects an individual right to own handguns.

 

"The Second Amendment Foundation and ANJRPC are prepared to take this case all the way to the US Supreme Court, where SAF has already won two landmark cases defending the rights of gun owners,” said Alan Gottlieb, Founder of SAF.

 

Judge Walls’ decision sets the stage for appeals which could bring this case to the U.S. Supreme Court as early as next year. The case was filed in late 2010 by ANJRPC, the Second Amendment Foundation, and six individual plaintiffs, challenging New Jersey’s unconstitutional "justifiable need” standard for issuance of handgun carry permits – a nearly impossible standard to meet that has all but eliminated the right to self defense with a firearm in the Garden State. Requiring a showing of "need” to exercise a fundamental right is unconstitutional.

 

The appeal is expected to be filed later this Winter.

 

ANJRPC will keep you apprised of major case developments as they occur. Please watch for future alerts.

 

 

So I guess driving a car will be outlawed shortly since "the protection of citizens from potentially lethal force is compelling.” and cars kill more people in the uUS than any other source.

 

I hate these judges.

 

Our system of how judges get appointed really needs to change. Instead of having impartial arbiters of facts we have political hacks making stuff up as they go along.

[alowerlevel 77]

http://njgunforums.com/forum/index.php?/topic/30966-federal-judge-trashes/

[autoxnyc 4]

I dont' think they really expected to win in NJ. This has to go to SCOTUS just like the McDonald case. Not sure how long it'll take to reach there though.

[revenger 473]

So where are we on the national reciprocity?

[areacode201 4]

I dont' think they really expected to win in NJ. This has to go to SCOTUS just like the McDonald case. Not sure how long it'll take to reach there though.

 

First it has to go to the 3rd Circuit Court of Appeals. After that the SCOTUS may elect to hear it. Who knows if they will.

[alex22 0]

Looks like it will be impossible to carry in nj.

[njJoniGuy 2,131]

Looks like it will be impossible to carry in nj.

But the gangbangers do it all the time! :wild:

[muzzelloader69 9]

so what the judge says is that , of the 33 states in the united states , and following the same U.S. CONSTITUTION ,2nd admendment , that there all wrong in carrying , but new jersey is right.

[diamondd817 827]

so what the judge says is that , of the 33 states in the united states , and following the same U.S. CONSTITUTION ,2nd admendment , that there all wrong in carrying , but new jersey is right.

 

I thought it was something like 46 States that allow for some type of carry?

[diamondd817 827]

Well, 44.

 

[muzzelloader69 9]

ok, so the jersey judge says the 44 states are wrong.

[KpdPipes 388]

ok, so the jersey judge says the 44 states are wrong.

No, Clinton appointee FEDERAL Judge... Mirroring the decision in a similar case against NY..... This was NOT a surprise to anyone who has been following this

[brennmi2 0]

Well, 44.

 

 

I'm confused, 53 states? They are missing 4. LOL

[PK90 3,570]

I see NJ turning from yellow to black before it ever goes to green or red.

[Parker 213]

I know New York is a "yellow" state, but I think their rep. is a bit unwarranted, and tainted by New York City's laws. I have dozens of friends in Rockland, Orange, Chenango and Delaware counties of New York. EVERY ONE has a pistol license and permit to carry. It's not that hard to get there if you're a resident in good standing. I ran into a friend while I was hunting earlier this week in Delaware county and he was walking around looking for his wallet because he had lost it somewhere in the woods. He was most upset about the fact that his pistol license was in his wallet and he didn't have it!

[KpdPipes 388]

I know New York is a "yellow" state, but I think their rep. is a bit unwarranted, and tainted by New York City's laws. I have dozens of friends in Rockland, Orange, Chenango and Delaware counties of New York. EVERY ONE has a pistol license and permit to carry. It's not that hard to get there if you're a resident in good standing. I ran into a friend while I was hunting earlier this week in Delaware county and he was walking around looking for his wallet because he had lost it somewhere in the woods. He was most upset about the fact that his pistol license was in his wallet and he didn't have it!

 

That is absolutely the Problem..what most people outside of Ny don't realize is that NYC has it's own even MORE restrictive laws than NYS...people hear "NY" and just assume that what flies in the City is what flies everywhere.

[Live_Free_orDie 1]

Two more years until I retire...then I move and take my tax dollars with me!!! <<<stuck here because of my job.

[NJCK 5]

What puzzles me the most is that half the States that pretty much form the birthplace of the United States of America work the hardest to infringe upon the Rights established by this country's founding fathers... Infringe upon the Bill of Rights (beyond the Second)... Burdensome taxation... Tyrannical rule... History does repeat itself...

[KpdPipes 388]

What puzzles me the most is that half the States that pretty much form the birthplace of the United States of America work the hardest to infringe upon the Rights established by this country's founding fathers... Infringe upon the Bill of Rights (beyond the Second)... Burdensome taxation... Tyrannical rule... History does repeat itself...

 

the biggest stumbling block is that the NJ State Constitution has never, EVER, since it's inception on 2 July 1776 (No, that is not a Typo) had an RKBA provision, where most other states made sure to include it in their Constitutions. .

[diamondd817 827]

I know New York is a "yellow" state, but I think their rep. is a bit unwarranted, and tainted by New York City's laws. I have dozens of friends in Rockland, Orange, Chenango and Delaware counties of New York. EVERY ONE has a pistol license and permit to carry. It's not that hard to get there if you're a resident in good standing. I ran into a friend while I was hunting earlier this week in Delaware county and he was walking around looking for his wallet because he had lost it somewhere in the woods. He was most upset about the fact that his pistol license was in his wallet and he didn't have it!

 

Yes, you are right. NY state has a reasonable may issue system in which most people can get a carry permit. That includes upsate and Long Island. It's NY City and the 5 boroughs that no one except Donald Trump and Howard Stern can get a carry permit ( I am not kidding, they both have NYC carry permits). The kicker is, your NY City carry permit is good for the entire NY State, your NY State carry permit is not reconized in NY City.

[PeteF 1,044]

the biggest stumbling block is that the NJ State Constitution has never, EVER, since it's inception on 2 July 1776 (No, that is not a Typo) had an RKBA provision, where most other states made sure to include it in their Constitutions. .

 

The reason it didn't contain RKBA, was probably because the writers and adopters did not even think it needed to be said. That it was so natural that why would anyone think it should need to be stated.

Find in the NJ constitution where it says it ok to eat, breathe or take a leak. You won't find them because it's obvious that you can do these things.

[KpdPipes 388]

The reason it didn't contain RKBA, was probably because the writers and adopters did not even think it needed to be said. That it was so natural that why would anyone think it should need to be stated.

Find in the NJ constitution where it says it ok to eat, breathe or take a leak. You won't find them because it's obvious that you can do these things.

 

I agree..especially since the British prohibition on personal arms was one of the main reasons the Revolution came about to begin with.....Sadly they did not have the foresight to see just how Statist the politicians would become.

[BigHayden 77]

Looks like it will be impossible to carry in nj.

 

Did anybody on here honestly believe this case would be won at this level? I view this as a good thing. Listening to the Gun for Hire podcast, Scott Bach said our case has the best chance of being the first, clean, carry case to make it to the SCOTUS. That is where we will win. Every loss until then is just a stepping stone

[Steve_G 51]

Did anybody on here honestly believe this case would be won at this level? I view this as a good thing. Listening to the Gun for Hire podcast, Scott Bach said our case has the best chance of being the first, clean, carry case to make it to the SCOTUS. That is where we will win. Every loss until then is just a stepping stone

 

While I agree that the SCOTUS is the only chance we have, it all depends on the makeup of the court when it finally gets there.

[Anselmo 87]

so what the judge says is that , of the 33 states in the united states , and following the same U.S. CONSTITUTION ,2nd admendment , that there all wrong in carrying , but new jersey is right.

 

The judge said that 2A grants the right to own a handgun and possess it in the house, business and property. The judge said he doesn't know if 2A applies to outside those areas. That other states allow CCW doesn't infer anything about the Constitution. States can always grant additional rights/priviledges to their citizens.

[Babyface Finster 45]

I see NJ turning from yellow to black before it ever goes to green or red.

 

I agree 100%. It will take some serious shifts in demographics or a real SHTF situation to break the typical NJ resident out of his/her apathy and fear. Until then, we'll all have to keep asking if stopping for gas on the way to the range is reasonable or not.

[diamondd817 827]

 

 

Did anybody on here honestly believe this case would be won at this level? I view this as a good thing. Listening to the Gun for Hire podcast, Scott Bach said our case has the best chance of being the first, clean, carry case to make it to the SCOTUS. That is where we will win. Every loss until then is just a stepping stone

 

It would be a lot easier if we did win at this level. There is no guarantee scotus will hear the case. We might not even know if they will or will not hear the case for at least a year. Even if they decide to hear the case, we still have to win. What if we lose in scotus? Do we screw up carry rights for the rest of the country? Way too much uncertainty. And jusr because Scott Bach says something doesn't mean its going to happen. So, winning here would have been much better.

[KpdPipes 388]

It would be a lot easier if we did win at this level. There is no guarantee scotus will hear the case. We might not even know if they will or will not hear the case for at least a year. Even if they decide to hear the case, we still have to win. What if we lose in scotus? Do we screw up carry rights for the rest of the country? Way too much uncertainty. And jusr because Scott Bach says something doesn't mean its going to happen. So, winning here would have been much better.

 

Winning here was Never EVER an option...the District Court ALREADY struck down a similar case out of New York by SAF. it's a stepping stone pure and simple, think Chess as opposed to Checkers.

[njpilot 671]

I think if you have some wins and some losses, the chance that SCOTUS takes the case is much better. With all losses, could be less of a chance they will take it.

 

It's when there are differing opinions in the lower courts that they feel they have to take it.

[RLTW 3]

It must be nice to be a Federal District Judge and know there is Security detail under the Marshall's that protect federal judges including outside the court house. They spend over $342 Million on Federal Judge security (including this guy) and I can't even conceal carry... I wonder how this judge would feel if he had NO taxpayer paid security & he could only protect himself inside his house.