Blackhawk Serpa (again)

[RAL1979 9]

sorry to bring this issue up again...

 

[Vlad G 345]

Good.

[RecessedFilter 222]

It doesn't surprise me. Lots of shooting schools are banning them.

[JamesC 2]

I had no idea about this - I've seen a LOT of civilians in MA using these, me included. That said, we aren't allowed to draw from holsters at most ranges and it's obviously not a CCW holster. The point about body mechanics makes sense given the adrenalin etc. dumping into the system.

 

Maybe it's a good idea that wasn't executed correctly?

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

What about the iTac? This holster uses the same type of retention device. iTac holsters are also sold under the name of Sig Sauer and H&K..

 

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

[Old Glock guy 1,127]

That's a shame. I was hoping to take a handgun class with these guys, and now I probably won't. It's not so much the expense of a new holster (it's really not much money compared to what I spend on other shooting related stuff), it's more the idea of retraining myself after practicing with nothing but

one of these. What do people use instead, something with a thumb release?

[Vlad G 345]

If you want something with some form of locking device look at the Safariland 6377. They cost about the same and a lot safer. I think most kydex holsters with positive "pinch" type retention are fine unless your concern is people taking your gun from you.

[DevsAdvocate 112]

If it's good enough for the USMC... why not us?

[Vlad G 345]

Lowest bidder, also before I go reposting things from the other thread and get this one locked too, check out the marine times article on the subject.

 

Or better yet, ask MDTS.

[Tactical Monkey 51]

If it's good enough for the USMC... why not us?

 

Did you even read the article, or just google the title?

 

Let me make it easy for you:

"But buying a Level 2 SERPA for every pistol in the Corps’ inventory is, at best, controversial and, at worst, dangerous."

 

"A roll in the dirt, gravel and even snow, get debris under the spring-loaded retention release button, jamming it closed and imprisoning the pistol."

 

"Giving them to everyone in the Corps without a strong training program in place to teach and reinforce the muscle memory required for safe use in stressful situations is asking for trouble."

 

"...but the fact remains that a fairly experienced shooter faced with only self-imposed stressors shot himself on the draw. Sure, this could have happened with any holster, but I can’t ignore the holster’s design relying on the trigger finger for activation as a strong contributing factor."

 

"SYSCOM told Marine Corps Times the Blackhawk SERPA was selected after a series of tests... ...but the didn’t elaborate on the other competitors nor the program requirements."

[BlueLineFish 615]

Who cares... If you ND while using this then you don't train enough. This discussion is starting to get annoying. If you are afraid to use it the get something else. This horse is beat to death already after it was dug up from the grave

[DevsAdvocate 112]

Did you even read the article, or just google the title?

 

Let me make it easy for you:

"But buying a Level 2 SERPA for every pistol in the Corps’ inventory is, at best, controversial and, at worst, dangerous."

 

"A roll in the dirt, gravel and even snow, get debris under the spring-loaded retention release button, jamming it closed and imprisoning the pistol."

 

"Giving them to everyone in the Corps without a strong training program in place to teach and reinforce the muscle memory required for safe use in stressful situations is asking for trouble."

 

"...but the fact remains that a fairly experienced shooter faced with only self-imposed stressors shot himself on the draw. Sure, this could have happened with any holster, but I can’t ignore the holster’s design relying on the trigger finger for activation as a strong contributing factor."

 

"SYSCOM told Marine Corps Times the Blackhawk SERPA was selected after a series of tests... ...but the didn’t elaborate on the other competitors nor the program requirements."

 

I dunno, I feel all that crap was just a recent occurrence. SERPAs have been around for years, but only recently did people hate on them. So what gives? A few NDs occur (including the infamous Tex Grabner) and all of a sudden it's a "danger" lurking in the shadows? C'mon...

[blksheep 466]

:thsmiley_deadhorse:

 

I sitll love and use mine...

[BlueLineFish 615]

I use mine a ton and pan on getting one for every handgun

[Vlad G 345]

What I find odd is how many serpa owners have a sentimental attachment to a piece of plastic that they don't have to the guns they put in it. I guess the must be a Corvair Owners Club somewhere as well, all evidence to the contrary.

[Ray Ray 3,566]

Here we go again. Maybe we should ban Glocks because they have no safety. Maybe we should ban assault rifles cause they kill more people. Maybe we should ban CCW because people are being shot in the streets, daily.

 

I guess M.D.T.S isn't getting my money this summer, oh well.

[blksheep 466]

I have a Serpa and use it everyday including at the range where sand is blowing all the time. Never had an issue. Its not sentimental, and you are right it is a just a piece of plastic. But its a piece of plastic that works and I trust my life on because I carry a gun in it everyday.

[BlueLineFish 615]

What I find odd is how many serpa owners have a sentimental attachment to a piece of plastic that they don't have to the guns they put in it. I guess the must be a Corvair Owners Club somewhere as well, all evidence to the contrary.

 

It's not a sentimental attachment. It's a working relationship with a piece of equipment that works very well and is simple to use. It is now a preference for me. Unfortunately it just may be too complicated for some people to use properly. People like to blame equipment for their lack of skill or carelessness. Please end this thread so it doesn't wind up like the other one.

[Vlad G 345]

I'm really trying to not start this argument again, even when more and more and more people are pointing out the flaws of this, but saying it didn't fail yet is like saying your Ford Pinto hasn't caught fire yet, all you have to do is stay out of the right kind of accident You are right, and it may never catch fire, but if enough of them catch fire when other cars don't why take a chance given the cost involved?

 

In any case, I'm staying out of this now, I just hope that you guys don't get hurt before someone wises up and sues blackhawk for that piece of shit.

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

I guess the must be a Corvair Owners Club somewhere as well, all evidence to the contrary.

 

Hey, hey! Hate on Serpas all you want, but leave Corvairs out of it. I met my future ex-wife in a Corvair.

[Maksim 1,504]

Kind of glad this came up again.

 

This weekend I have seen first hand, and would no longer recommend Serpa holsters in general, without a big buyer beware.

 

Ok, I really thought I my finger, was like anyone else, and I disengage the Serpa with the middle part of my finger, not the pad. Let someone use my single stack rig this weekend for the intro class, for a 1911, and saw the person disengaging it with the pad of their finger, thus curling the finger.

[blksheep 466]

Hey, hey! Hate on Serpas all you want, but leave Corvairs out of it. I met my future ex-wife in a Corvair.

 

lol!

[blksheep 466]

Kind of glad this came up again.

 

This weekend I have seen first hand, and would no longer recommend Serpa holsters in general, without a big buyer beware.

 

Ok, I really thought I my finger, was like anyone else, and I disengage the Serpa with the middle part of my finger, not the pad. Let someone use my single stack rig this weekend for the intro class, for a 1911, and saw the person disengaging it with the pad of their finger, thus curling the finger.

 

I always disengage it with the pad.

[BlueLineFish 615]

 

 

I always disengage it with the pad.

 

Same here. One doesn't need to press to hard to disengage it. I think people press to hard and thus curl their finger. This goes back to training. Maybe the SERPA should have a warning for professionals only.

[BlueLineFish 615]

One should practice drawing a lot with the fun safe and empty before using it with a loaded weapon. That sould be for any holster

[Vlad G 345]

Maybe the SERPA should have a warning for professionals only.

 

Hehe I'm sorry but all that makes me thing of is "I'm the only one in this room, that I know of, professional enough to carry this Glock 40."

[bbk 188]

Agreed, that is a highly pretentious thing to say, BLF.

 

I applaud MDTS. I've seen the Serpa fail firsthand, repeatedly, and while we all have as-- I mean opinions-- I feel better knowing that there won't be any near me when I'm training in an environment where we're drawing from the holster.

 

Is the problem a core issue? Yes; this is an operator issue at the core. Does the Serpa exacerbate that core issue? Yes, yes it does.

What I don't get is how offended people get. Its a piece of plastic. There are better options, no doubt. Why not even consider other possibilities? I'm not saying go out and buy certain products, I don't care-- do what you want. But why not embrace the free market? At the behest of another forum member, I dropped my Serpa (long before this debate started), and tried out the G-code holsters ($18 or something at Natchez). This is now my go-to, and not because of the possible inherent dangers of Serpa (though its in the back of my mind now), but because the G-code is an infinitely better holster.

[compujas 21]

We do embrace the free market. That's exactly why those of us who want to buy Serpas, still buy Serpas regardless of what people say about them. If they are as inherently unsafe as everyone claims, they will go the way of the Ford Pinto...that's how the free market works.

 

Since, as you say, it's just a piece of plastic, why do any of you care what others buy? We're not spending your money. We're not telling you to use it. So what's the big deal? I find it amazing that no one here who owns a Serpa, has told anyone else to go out and buy a Serpa, yet everyone who hates Serpas has told the rest not to buy a Serpa.

 

Have there been accidents with Serpas involved? Yes. Have there been accidents with other holsters? Of course. Does that mean no one should buy any holster? No.

[Maksim 1,504]

It is, and anyone is free to buy as they please, no one is telling anyone not to, just to know.

 

For the same reasons, why MDTS is banning them from his class.

[Vlad G 345]

Since, as you say, it's just a piece of plastic, why do any of you care what others buy? We're not spending your money. We're not telling you to use it. So what's the big deal?

 

Oh thats easy. In order of priority 1) I don't want to see people hurt 2) I don't want to see people getting hurt and hurting gun rights when someone points a finger at "unsafe gun nuts", 3) As I put a lot of blood and sweat in running competitive shooting events I don't want to see my shooters hurt, 5) I don't want to see the same competitive events labeled as unsafe and banned from clubs 6) I don't want clubs being closed because someone decides to sue them once they get hurt with garbage holster.

 

Those are all pretty big deals and I really wish people would stop looking a bit farther out and considering the second order effects of their actions.