So Sad on So Many Levels

[this_is_nascar 162]

I usually will not mock other's cultural behaviors and practices, but WTF is this all about. I just had to post this, as it saddens me so greatly.

 

 

http://now.msn.com/now/0406-mom-age-10.aspx

[RedBowTies88 41]

It's part of their culture.... I don't see why this is a sad thing...there's nothing to suggest they're anything but happy with the outcome.

[Duppie 73]

While this incident was reported widely and grew legs,there are girls as young right here in NJ that are found to be pregnant just about every day but the fetus is aborted to protect the health of the mother.

Cultures other than our own have little to do with it.

[kurtinnj 9]

It's a culture thing. It's not what we do here in NJ, but she is not from NJ, like I said, it's a culture thing. We don't like it but it's not our call.

[PeteF 1,044]

Culture my a**. A 10 year old is a CHILD. We are not talking about the difference between a 19 year old and a 15 year old, where a mentally mature 15 year old may be prepared to care for a child.

I don't care how mature a 10 year old is they are barely able to care for themselves never mind a 100% dependent baby.

[Recon Racoon 49]

Culture my a**. A 10 year old is a CHILD. We are not talking about the difference between a 19 year old and a 15 year old, where a mentally mature 15 year old may be prepared to care for a child.

I don't care how mature a 10 year old is they are barely able to care for themselves never mind a 100% dependent baby.

Agreed, but one its not our country. Its not our culture. And the Wayyu tribe is autonomous from the government. We can disagree with it as much as we want, but in the end its just hot air cause we can't do shit about.

 

IMO, its their way of life. I don't go messing with other cultures, cause I don't want them to mess with mine.

[this_is_nascar 162]

Culture thing or not, it's wrong in my opinion. There's a huge difference in impregnating and having intercourse with a10-year old vs. say a 15 or 16-year old. I don't care where you come from or what village you grew up in. This is simply wrong.

[Krdshrk 3,878]

While this would be culturally abhorrent here, it's their culture. You don't go around impressing your own culture on others. This is an aboriginal tribe that still practices their own religion and marriage rights.

 

Read up about them:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wayuu_people

Young girls are promised to men of the clan as young as 10–12 years old, right around the time they are becoming of child-bearing age. The perceived intention is to wed her to a man before risking that she become pregnant out of wedlock or arrangement, an act that is of great social shame for the Wayuu, and specifically for the woman's family's honor and credibility.

[Sandy 44]

Not my country , not my business.

 

If that was going on here with an autonomous tribe , and they are using the public assistance healthcare system , it would be our problem.

 

It is physically dangerous for a child that age to procreate. Birth defects and dangers to the mother go way up when the mother is very old or very young. It is equal on both ends of the scale . A 10 year old mother is as risky as a 55 year old mother . From a medical standpoint.

 

I don't like it one bit , but I don't think it is a big enough of an abuse for the World Police to step in.

[Ronald Silver 2]

Not sure how you can defend this cultural practice by just saying "it's their culture or practice"

Murder & rape occur overseas. Do we justify that by saying it's their culture?

It's ok to stone cheating wives to death overseas also? It's their culture, why stop now....

[this_is_nascar 162]

It's still humanly wrong, as far as I'm concerned. Agreeing to this practice, to me, means that anything goes is acceptable to others as long as it's "their culture". That's bullsh*t.

[this_is_nascar 162]

Not sure how you can defend this cultural practice by just saying "it's their culture or practice"

Murder & rape occur overseas. Do we justify that by saying it's their culture?

It's ok to stone cheating wives to death overseas also? It's their culture, why stop now....

 

 

Thank you.

[Krdshrk 3,878]

It is not our place to try to judge others by our own self-imposed rules, culture, morals, religion etc.

 

Is it bad that things like this happen? Sure. Can we do anything to prevent it? Only if we overstep our boundaries and try to impose our own views on others. Is it right for us to do that? Heck no.

 

Just like religion with me - practice what you want, as long as you don't try to push it on me.

[tommy3rd 132]

It's still humanly wrong, as far as I'm concerned. Agreeing to this practice, to me, means that anything goes is acceptable to others as long as it's "their culture". That's bullsh*t.

I understand that it's wrong, but what do you suggest we do? invade them and change their way? put up sanctions that won't do anything to their tribe because they don't rely on anyone?

as long as they don't tell us what to do, leave us alone, and they stay where they are, then it's their lives.

how would you like it if some other country decides to invade us because they don't like what we do and tells us to change our ways?

[this_is_nascar 162]

I understand that it's wrong, but what do you suggest we do? invade them and change their way? put up sanctions that won't do anything to their tribe because they don't rely on anyone?

as long as they don't tell us what to do, leave us alone, and they stay where they are, then it's their lives.

how would you like it if some other country decides to invade us because they don't like what we do and tells us to change our ways?

 

 

Maybe I wasn't clear. I wasn't looking for us to do anthing, as we can not. I know that. I posted this because it got to me so much. Maybe a mistake on my part, since the responses like "hey, it's not happening in my backyard, so I don't give a sh*t" and "oh well, it's their culture, so it's OK" seems to have bothered me more than the act I posted about. I was ad-libbing and not actually quoting anyone, but that's basically the responses, as I read it.

[db1775 4]

While I agree that it is definitely a cultural issue, and we should not necessarily impose our own upon them, we should remember that other cultures are imposing themselves upon ours in serious ways, beyond merely adding to the melting pot. Any time spent in the southwest and California will confirm the more destructive aspects of that. So again, I agree that we shouldn't feel the need to fix other people, I just wish we'd all recognize that others are trying to fix us as well, whether it be La Raza or the Sharia-pushers in Michigan, Oklahoma or Virginia. I like our culture best, I vote to keep it intact here, and let others worry about their own.

[Ray Ray 3,566]

It's part of their culture.... I don't see why this is a sad thing...there's nothing to suggest they're anything but happy with the outcome.

 

Yeah, although it's still sad.

[NJScott 15]

While I agree that it is definitely a cultural issue, and we should not necessarily impose our own upon them, we should remember that other cultures are imposing themselves upon ours in serious ways, beyond merely adding to the melting pot. Any time spent in the southwest and California will confirm the more destructive aspects of that. So again, I agree that we shouldn't feel the need to fix other people, I just wish we'd all recognize that others are trying to fix us as well, whether it be La Raza or the Sharia-pushers in Michigan, Oklahoma or Virginia. I like our culture best, I vote to keep it intact here, and let others worry about their own.

 

Single best post of the year so far

[this_is_nascar 162]

While I agree that it is definitely a cultural issue, and we should not necessarily impose our own upon them, we should remember that other cultures are imposing themselves upon ours in serious ways, beyond merely adding to the melting pot. Any time spent in the southwest and California will confirm the more destructive aspects of that. So again, I agree that we shouldn't feel the need to fix other people, I just wish we'd all recognize that others are trying to fix us as well, whether it be La Raza or the Sharia-pushers in Michigan, Oklahoma or Virginia. I like our culture best, I vote to keep it intact here, and let others worry about their own.

 

 

Let's call a spade a spade, shall we. I'm not sure what exactly your referring to, but screwing a 10-year old, is f*ucked up. I'd be interested in better understanding what you're referring to, as I can't imagine it's any worse than this.

[Old Glock guy 1,127]

There seems to be an underlying assumption here that the girl was impregnated by an adult male, but I think it's at least equally likely, if not more so, that the father was some mature10-12 year-old kid, which would cast the situation in a completely different light..

[Krdshrk 3,878]

There seems to be an underlying assumption here that the girl was impregnated by an adult male, but I think it's at least equally likely, if not more so, that the father was some mature10-12 year-old kid, which would cast the situation in a completely different light..

 

I'm thinking this as well - there's no mention as to the father.

[this_is_nascar 162]

There seems to be an underlying assumption here that the girl was impregnated by an adult male, but I think it's at least equally likely, if not more so, that the father was some mature10-12 year-old kid, which would cast the situation in a completely different light..

 

 

You know, that's a pretty damn good thought. You're right, it would make the situation a bit different.

[Sandy 44]

If you read up on that tribe most couples are married before they both reach puberty , to avoid birth out of wedlock. So the father would be a child too. The more typical age of the extremely young parents would be 12 and up. But , like the rest of the world this tribe does not seem to be immune from the increasingly early onset of puberty for girls. Puts an interesting spin on the prevailing opinion that hormones in our cows and chicken are causing it. Unless our cows and chickens are imported from Columbia. Funny , people never accept that evolution continues around us. If something is changing they need to blame something.

 

Anyway , I digress. Yes , children having children rings sad to me. But I don't hold it on the same level as child brides to adult males like some of the cults here practice. That tribe has been existing with that type of family structure for long before we were even a country or a named continent for that matter. Because this girl is particularly young , and for whatever reason she had to go to a mainstream hospital ( probably because she was so young , pelvic cavity is not developed until around age 12 , the typical age for puberty) , it made OUR headlines. And you know what our media does with headlines.

 

Look , there is a whole movement , backed by the American Academy Of Pediatrics , who think our practice of routine male infant circumcision is cruel , unnecessary , and unfair to the boy who should be the one to make decisions about alterations of his body when he is older.

 

What seems perfectly rational and normal to one cultural group can appear to be barbaric in the eyes of another. If you walked into a bar in the UK and say your baby son just got circumcised , they would react as if you stuck him arse first in a hay baler.

 

Just sayin'

[db1775 4]

Let's call a spade a spade, shall we. I'm not sure what exactly your referring to, but screwing a 10-year old, is f*ucked up. I'd be interested in better understanding what you're referring to, as I can't imagine it's any worse than this.

 

Yep, of course that is disgusting. I never said it was anything other. In fact, I think I was trying to divorce this individual reprehensible act from the larger argument about cultural invasion -- ours and thiers -- so that the emotion clouding our judgement could be lessened. In this country we seem to wring our hands way too much over what foreigners do, but I don't really care what goes on in other countries any longer, in the abstract, while I can still hate their practices on the individual level.

 

In other words, I have a detached resentment of a culture that thinks this is a-ok, while not really feeling moved to help people see the error of their ways. It is a lazy paternalism, I am certain. I care enough to be disgusted, but not enough to do anything about it.

 

An example would be Sharia, which says it is ok for a "man" to kill his daughter for some ridiculous sense of honor. Some idiots want to bring that here, and I say a RESOUNDING NO on that (look up the idiot judge who wants to recognize it in Oklahoma). But I don't really give a squat that they do this daily over in Pakistan -- over 1000 women murdered there last year to save face for their "men". See, I can be as derisive and condescending towards a culture I see as inferior, but not care for us to do anything about it -- as long as it stays OVER THERE and not here. Ditto for the reconquista of our Southwest. I find nothing wrong with Mexican culutre, narco-terror and all, as long as it doesn't spill over the border. I like my culture best, I don't feel the need to subject myself to theirs -- that was the point of my post.

 

I don't think it was appropriate to purposefully try and read any sort of moral equivalence into what I wrote. It was a post on the perpetual hand-wringing we do concerning the goings on in other places and how we need to worry about keeping that crap from coming here.

[this_is_nascar 162]

Thanks. I understand.

[Sandy 44]

@Ray - it is hard to read about for sure. I love children and hate to hear of them having to go through any physical dangers ( and birth at 10 is dangerous) or work harder than they need to at such a young age. There are just so many horrors in this world , especially for children. If this girl was impregnated by a grown man it would be horrific and should not be allowed to be hidden behind the "culture" wall of protection. Fortunately it looks like that was not the case. But , you know how our media is. Who knows ?

 

As for the whole intervening in other Cultures and other cultures being able to "practice " here , here is my take on it :

 

There was a time when I was all for sending foreign aid and intervening when severe human rights crimes were being committed in other countries.

 

Then the more places I travel to and the more foreigners I meet I realize they despise us , ridicule us , and resent us for all we do . They focus on the negative impact they claim we have on the world , while forgetting all of the help we lend .

 

I find many ( not all of course) immigrants to be constantly spouting complaints about this country despite being perfectly happy to either be on our government's assistance or earning money here. I'm the first American born on my mom's side , 2nd on my dad's side. My family is not and never was like that. They embraced this country and became Americans , and they did not have to give up their own ethnic traditions ( none of which involved beating women for showing their faces or anything like that). They were proud to become American though.

 

When I was abroad visiting I actually had one guy from Scotland corner me at a party and say " what gives the US the right to tell Iran they can't have nukes when the USA is the only one who has ever dropped them" . All I was doing was standing there . I had not engaged in anything but light hearted conversation with anyone up until that point. I controlled myself because it was a social gathering and simply stated that A) anyone who decided to drop that bomb is either not with us anymore , or quite senile. B) you will be the one sucking in way more fallout than we would if Iran decides to vaporize a particular small slip of land on your side of the globe there , and we will be the ones expected to send lots and lots and lots of help.

 

And then I guy in a pub I did not even know was giving me a bunch , and I mean a bunch , of crap about the same topic and about our support of Israel, and about who the hell did they think we were for policing the world , yada yada . Considering their undying support for the PLO stems solely from illegal arms trading( see what happens when you deny civilians guns? They get them from fringe operations anyway) , I took it for what it was - extremely subjective.And hey , you're welcome for that whole Good Friday Accords thing. The clincher though was when he told me on the tail end of all of that , that his son went to work in the USA .He met a girl , and was going to be able to stay , and he himself was hoping to somehow immigrate and join his son there ( here) as well. Fortunately one of us was smart enough to enter a heated debate while on 3rd and 4th pints.

 

That is 2 incidents in a sea of conversations I have had with people from all walks of life who either do not live here or live here but did not originate here , who choose to come here for opportunity or gladly take US aid for their country , yet complain an absolute blue streak about us. Makes me want to say go home and don't take our dollars then.

 

Not to say all are like that . Of course they're not. But enough that I have encountered are , and it has molded my opinions on this topic somewhat.

 

AND , I also have a friend who had a sick baby born in Ole' Miss . She works for the army corps of Engineers. Her baby had a 20% chance to live , if she got life saving heart surgery . They got her , at 4 days old , stable enough to get the heart surgery and they increased her chances of survival .But, she needed to be life flighted to a children's cardiology center somewhere. Well , there was that earthquake in Jamaica . The administrative doctors at the hospital determined little Ellie was stable enough to wait another few days for her surgery . They chose to send her life flight chopper to Jamaica to assist instead. 2 days later she filled up with fluid and went into heart failure. She could no longer get the surgery , and she died. The surgery would have prevented the congestive heart failure that killed her . I really hope that chopper saved somebody good in Jamaica. My friend chose not to sue. I would have.

 

And people from Jamaica hate the USA! Unless you are in the resort , then they fake it. When we asked for cruise ships from the Caribbean resort countries and the Gulfside Mexican Resort areas to help house the victims of Katrina..they said no.

 

So , that in a nutshell is why I don't agree with the majority of foreign aid unless it is to prevent the truly horrific Human Rights crimes , or unless it is of direct benefit to us.

 

As for practicing Sharia here . No . Sorry. We have a Constitution that protects all of our citizens civil rights . And yes , religious freedom is one them . But you can't hide behind your Religious rights to commit crimes against other individuals. Not in this country. All of the amendments are subject to restrictions ( look at what we have to go through to exercise the 2nd Amendment) to keep them from being a barrier to overall justice and to keep us out of a state of anarchy.

 

We have enough issues with some of our own cults committing crimes against women and children who try to evoke First Amendment to shield themselves from the law. We don't need any new situations here , thanks. We're good.

[this_is_nascar 162]

Thanks for the insight. NIce read, for sure. Just so we're clear on this and to make sure that I properly state my position on foreign aid and foreign affairs, I'm of the opinion to leave all other countries alone in addition to shutting down our borders. I'm sure that will spark a whole bunch of debate, but that's how I feel. Let's worry about our own for now. Stop all aid to all countries NO MATTER WHAT, regardless of their situation. Stop all new immigrants until we get this country stabilized. Stop all importing of foreign products, until we get our act together. Yes folks, sorry, but that means you'll have to do with your iPhones, Tablets, etc for sometime. It sounds harsh, but it's something we must do to regain factories and industry back into this country. It will put people back to work, allow for health care to those who need it and help our elderly, disabled and veterans. This could all be funded by keeping those foreign aid dollars here in the US.

 

 

With this particular thread I started, it was not to suggest that we or the USA do anything about it. It was more of a rant, wondering how any culture could allow that of a 10-year old.

[Sandy 44]

I would +1 you if I could ( )

[Sandy 44]

I was just talking to my daughter about a vacation we took with her to Jamaica so I had it on my mind. Earthquake was in Haiti lol My bad , I know.

[Old Glock guy 1,127]

I would +1 you if I could ( )

 

And I would +1 you if I could (although I never really did any of that anyway). That was a good, thoughtful post.

 

I have not traveled abroad a lot, but my impression is that most people love America and Americans, at least in Europe; wheareas that's probably not as true in the Middle East. I've heard pundits say that social media will help bring about an end to the oppression of Sharia Law and such, but last year's so-called "Arab Spring" would suggest otherwise.