Unions fill deptford mall

[Shawnmoore81 623]

We had over 1000+ guys in there wondering around in hard hats and all met for lunch in the food court to show union awareness.

 

http://mobile.nj.com/advnj/db_102371/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=dLrAaMnk

[NJScott 15]

No doubt coordinated by your local democratic party?

[silverado427 10,735]

Its tough to get that many members of the trades together, Its like a massive picket duty.

[heaterbob 53]

phase 1: try to intimidate mall owner

 

phase 2: giant blow up rat when you don't

[Shawnmoore81 623]

Or mall owner gives job to company from down south. They take all the money they made with them back down south and it's gone from our local economy never to be spent in your business. Then the thousands of local union workers will never shop at your business. Good thing you saved a few bucks.

[NJdiverTony 27]

As with any business, it all comes down to the bottom line... Especially in this economy. If the mall owner can get the work done for much less, then who can blame him for that? Oh yeah... the overpriced/overpaid local union people... That's who!

[Shawnmoore81 623]

Well those same people will never shop in that business. So that sounds even. I'll totally cut the deptford mall out oft life. The cherry hill mall hires union so I can go there

[njJoniGuy 2,131]

Totally your choice to spend your $$ where you choose.

 

Same as the mall owner's

[Shawnmoore81 623]

There was no violence, no laws broken, no commerce stopped. Just a show of the ammount of business that can be lost permanently over a couple short term jobs. Which we had every right to do.

[Babyface Finster 45]

Aren't you one of the guys who said he would cut back on buying from Amazon to avoid paying sales tax once they opened their physical warehouse in NJ? Seems to me a local warehouse would keep more money in the local economy, even if it costs you a little more. As it stands now, if you're buying from Amazon aren't YOU sending money out of the local economy in order to save a few bucks? Maybe the mall caught wind of it and is boycotting you...

[Tom-NJ2AS 31]

Shawn

 

I really have nothing against the unions. We hire union guys when we need to. Just for an example of why people do not want to build union. I just bid a job. (this is without the actual buildings, as we do all the site-work up until the building work)

 

My price for non union labor was $12,235,000

 

Union labor was $14,786,000

 

 

 

Now if i am an owner, i would want an extra $2,000,000 dollars in my pocket. We are a non union shop and have built sites all over the state. Never an issue with the work. I only say that because a lot of union guys say you dont get the same product.

 

I agree with what the unions stand for, but at what point is it too much???

[specopsscout 26]

It was probably just a coincedence that employee pay rates and benefits began to stall and stagnate in private industry at the same time that unions were pushed for the most part from them.

[Shawnmoore81 623]

It was probably just a coincedence that employee pay rates and benefits began to stall and stagnate in private industry at the same time that unions were pushed for the most part from them.

 

If it wasnt for unions you wouldn't have overtime, weekends, vacations and the wages we do now. Like em or not they are needed

[specopsscout 26]

Not to mention some degree of job security for many...

[specopsscout 26]

And I really do believe it comes down to much more then a simple democrats vs. republicans thing. I'm a registered republican, but the truth is, the older I get the more I realize that I don't make nearly enough money to be a good republican, and I need what little I make way too much to be a good democrat...

[Shawnmoore81 623]

The only people who don't like unions are people who can't get in and company owners.

[alec.mc 180]

The only people who don't like unions are people who can't get in and company owners.

 

Truth,

 

 

As a proud union member, I can't really pinpoint why the extreme hate for unions throughout the country. I can understand some aspects of it, But being part of a union, and a good trade, has put food on my table and paid my bills. It afforded me to buy my own home at 24, and live fairly comfortably. I've trained and studied for what I do and worked my a** off to get to where I am currently. People who express hate for unions, as Shawn said are business owners, Wal-Mart, and people who cant get in.

 

Go where the money, overtime, and job security is people, Why wouldn't you? Don't like money or something?

[Shawnmoore81 623]

actually walmarts in our territory are now being built union.

[A-Tech 8]

I don't like unions. I never tried to get into one, and am not a company owner. MOST of the people I know are union workers, and its sickening what they get out of it. I just learned that working after a certain time in some unions, means overtime. I don't get overtime unless I put in 40hrs first. Working 4hrs after a certain time shouldn't mean that you get paid double. Months of vacation? I could go on for a long time about this. The point is that unions have become greedy and use the thought that because they are unionized that they're quality of work is higher, when you have guys out there that won't pick up a shovel because the union doesn't allow it, therefore making a job go an extra day because the guy that WAS allowed to do it, decided to take a personal day that the union entitles him to. So not only are the jobs more expensive but they take longer. Would you pay more money for something that took longer while groups of people sat around leaning on shovels and taking 1hr lunches? Doubt it. I know construction and electrical guys that aren't union, bust their asses, and have a high reputation for quality work. They don't ask for 4+ weeks vacation, protest work conditions, or refuse to work because "there's another guy for that". It's one thing to be in union, its another to be in a union and condescending. I'm sorry I absolutely disagree with what unions expect.

[Shawnmoore81 623]

Actually with construction unions when you don't come in you don't get paid. No paid vacations unless you and the company make that deal. Also saying you can't get canned is a lie. People are laid off all the time. These are big myths people come up with. Also your right I won't pick up a shovel because that's a laborers job. Just like a laborer won't insulate pipes. It's a mutual respect and if everybody started doing everybody's jobs things would t get done right.

[Tom-NJ2AS 31]

We had to hire a couple of union guys on one project. One was a generator operator. Guess what he did all day? Started and stopped the generator. Where i could easily have had a laborer do that job and help with everything else that needs to be done. To me, that was a waste of manpower. But, our hands are tied sometimes.

[Shawnmoore81 623]

Now with the whole no paid vacations is part of the reason we get more money an hour.

 

On to overtime yes after 8 hours it's time and a half and after 10 it's double. The reason we do that is there have been multiple times I've been called in to an emergency job at a local plant. You may only work for that particular contractor for that day. I've worked 24 straight hours so why shouldn't I get extra pay for going that many straight hours. It's not like the 40 hours I worked that week with a different contractor count towards that.

[A-Tech 8]

We had to hire a couple of union guys on one project. One was a generator operator. Guess what he did all day? Started and stopped the generator. Where i could easily have had a laborer do that job and help with everything else that needs to be done. To me, that was a waste of manpower. But, our hands are tied sometimes.

 

This is exactly my point. Digging a hole is a lot different than insulating pipes or things of the like. If I could dig a hole at 12yrs old to put a fence in, I'm pretty sure any grown male being paid to do ANYTHING, could sacrifice a few minutes of digging to keep a job moving. It's things like that, that give unions a bad rep.

[Shawnmoore81 623]

You can change from 5 8's to 4 10's if the workers agree to it. Also you 7am start time can be changed if the workers agree on it also. Unions give the power to the workers.

[NJdiverTony 27]

The only people who don't like unions are people who can't get in and company owners.

 

LOL! That's funny. I used to be in the union (IBEW Local 827) for several years and couldn't wait for the opportunity to get OUT of the union. Whenever we needed union representation, the union leadership was never there for us... but they gladly took our dues out of our paychecks every week! I also got tired of seeing useless, lazy, high seniority people sitting around doing nothing, while all the hard working and very talented younger guys got laid off left and right. I was lucky enough to survive the lay offs and then eventually took a promotion into management where I was able to work hard and continue to gain promotions and get rewarded for my hard work and talents. Hard work and talent means nothing when you're in the union... the useless guy with 30 yrs of seniority will always get protected, while the younger guys that bust their a** and are very good will get shafted. At least that's the way it was when I was a union member.

[alec.mc 180]

It should be noted that note all unions are created equally, the union at your local grocery store cant be lumped in with IBEW electricians, and general labor unions cannot be lumped in with pipe fitters unions.

 

There is general manual labor, and there is skilled labor. There are people who get paid for what they know, and people who get paid for what they do.

 

All contracts are created differently as well, some union jobs dont allow overtime at all, others after 8 hours a day, some after 32 a week, some after 40 a week.

 

I work an otherwise normal sort of contract, we have overtime- but only after 40 hours per week. 2 weeks vacation a year, and 10 sick days a year.

 

Seniority is one thing most unions have to deal with when it comes down to layoffs and whatnot, It sucks being the low man on the todem pole, but keep doing what you do and eventually you'll be there.

[EchoMirage 137]

I don't like unions. I never tried to get into one, and am not a company owner. MOST of the people I know are union workers, and its sickening what they get out of it. I just learned that working after a certain time in some unions, means overtime. I don't get overtime unless I put in 40hrs first. Working 4hrs after a certain time shouldn't mean that you get paid double. Months of vacation? I could go on for a long time about this. The point is that unions have become greedy and use the thought that because they are unionized that they're quality of work is higher, when you have guys out there that won't pick up a shovel because the union doesn't allow it, therefore making a job go an extra day because the guy that WAS allowed to do it, decided to take a personal day that the union entitles him to. So not only are the jobs more expensive but they take longer. Would you pay more money for something that took longer while groups of people sat around leaning on shovels and taking 1hr lunches? Doubt it. I know construction and electrical guys that aren't union, bust their asses, and have a high reputation for quality work. They don't ask for 4+ weeks vacation, protest work conditions, or refuse to work because "there's another guy for that". It's one thing to be in union, its another to be in a union and condescending. I'm sorry I absolutely disagree with what unions expect.

 

you really have no idea what youre talking about. all you know about unions is what you think you see when theres a road crew digging up the street. you dont know what being union in the building trades means.

 

vacations?? i get NO vacation. im laid off more then enough to never worry about a 'vacation'. i dont know WTF kind of union you think you know about, but there is no way in hell anyone gets a vacation, let alone for 'months.' and no such thing as 'personal days.' you dont work, you dont get paid. period.

 

and why would an electrician pick up a shovel to dig a hole? take a guess....ITS NOT HIS JOB. thats WHY there are laborers. being specialized in a trade makes MORE jobs for other people, so you dont have a dozen 'jack of all trades' doing everything from sweeping the floor to welding. not to mention giving everyone a specific job makes them specialized in that field. i had to go through 5 years of apprenticeship to be a journeyman pipefitter. why in gods fycking name would i pick up a screwdriver and start doing electrical work??? why the fyck do you think i suffered through 5 years of schooling to be a fitter....so i can NOT do what i was trained in and sweep the fycking floor??? get your head out of your a**. we are TRAINED and SKILLED tradesmen, who have the proper schooling and experience to earn the money we're paid.

 

i have seen first hand the difference between union labor and an illegal immigrant hired off the street on the same job. and because the general contractor paid off the mason hall, and hired non-skilled help, the job took twice as long because they had to fix all the screwups that the NON UNION people did.

 

its people like YOU who give unions a bad name. not the union brothers.

[RS1200XL 4]

I went through 5 years of schooling to become a mechanical engineer. I still turn a wrench at my job when its needed. By your logic I should feel that is below me and someone else who is specialized in that field needs to do that.....

[njpilot 671]

If it wasnt for unions you wouldn't have overtime, weekends, vacations and the wages we do now. Like em or not they are were needed, in many cases.

The only people who don't like unions are people who can't get in and company owners.

Not true at all. I was involved with and eventually lost my job trying to get the union into a sh*tty printing shop back in the '80s. Eventually got help getting into the Carpenters and Joiners union in NYC. I have seen good and bad, ie: corrupt union behavior.

 

Yes, there was a time when unions were needed. Today, not so much, but in some cases, yes. Unfortunately some unions have gone from getting good wages and working conditions for their members, to making it almost impossible for companies to operate with union costs. The airlines a number of years ago got to the point where they couldn't afford the $300K salaries of senior captains and had to negotiate a two tiered system with lower pay for new hire pilots.

 

We all want to make as much as we can, have the best benefits in the world, work as little as possible to have time with our families and to enjoy life, but companies still need to be able to compete and be profitable or they won't stay in business.

[Murphy4570 15]

The only people who don't like unions are people who can't get in and company owners.

 

Don't forget that there is still a large percentage of Americans who have no love for the teachings of Karl Marx and Vladimir Ilyich Lenin. Many unions are very sympathetic towards that line of thinking.

 

I have studied that line of political philosophy, and am firmly against it. Many Union leaders fully support it, and support political candidates who are of the same mindset. Using union dues to support politicians whom the union members may not all favor is wrong.