Chambering rounds repeatedly

[liquidskin 3]

I consider my Glock 17 to be my primary HD gun, yet I don't keep a round chambered. At first I guess this was a safety measure but as my experience has grown over the past few years, I'm very confident in my handling of my weapons and obedience of the safety rules. That being said, I've been thinking that I should probably have a round chambered in the event I ever need it. Who am I kidding, I'm no world class self defense master, I'd probably never remember to rack the slide if something went down..

 

So now my hesitation lies in chambering my defensive loads numerous times. I like to dry fire every so often, so I invision the same round being ejected and then re chambered. Of course rotation is an option, but I wanted to see what you guys do in this regard. I've read that the extraction process is very taxing on the rounds, so I don't want to put my ammo in jeopardy. What's the best practice for this topic?

[RubberBullets 65]

I recall a study done after a police officer's weapon failed to discharge in a defensive situation. The findings resulted in the PO repeatedly ejecting and re-chambering the same round his duty weapon when he returned from work. I try my best to work in a rotation between 2 mags of my HD gun, and plan to rotate the ammo out after I felt all of the rounds have been cycled 2-3 times.

[TheWombat 67]

2013 Annual of Guns and Ammo Handguns (the one with 3 new pistols on the front with a display under December 3rd, 2012) has a pretty interesting article covering Bullet Setback in Autopistols starting at page 94.

 

They take some common rounds such as Remington JHP (R9mm1), Corbon JHP, CCI TMJ, Speed GD etc etc etc etc in 9mm, .40 S&W and .45 ACP and run up to 30 feeds of a round to measure setback. Sound rounds exhibited 0" setback, others experienced fairly significant setback.

 

They also state that it may not just be a particular brand, but more down to an individual batch or round that could exhibit more or less setback.

 

Their recommendation they give is to put the round you cycle into a separate container/box and take the container/box to the round once every month or two and fire the cycled rounds. This may or may not work for you depending how often you are chambering rounds.

 

The article is worth a read.

 

TheWombat

[Mikeythumbs 1]

I cycle rounds through the 2 mags I have loaded for self defense so technically I can load unload 15 times before the same round is cycled again I will have to pull out a round from the same batch and check them next to each other

[FishNJ 2]

2013 Annual of Guns and Ammo Handguns (the one with 3 new pistols on the front with a display under December 3rd, 2012) has a pretty interesting article covering Bullet Setback in Autopistols starting at page 94.

 

They take some common rounds such as Remington JHP (R9mm1), Corbon JHP, CCI TMJ, Speed GD etc etc etc etc in 9mm, .40 S&W and .45 ACP and run up to 30 feeds of a round to measure setback. Sound rounds exhibited 0" setback, others experienced fairly significant setback.

 

They also state that it may not just be a particular brand, but more down to an individual batch or round that could exhibit more or less setback.

 

Their recommendation they give is to put the round you cycle into a separate container/box and take the container/box to the round once every month or two and fire the cycled rounds. This may or may not work for you depending how often you are chambering rounds.

 

The article is worth a read.

 

TheWombat

 

with no experience, i was going to suggest something like this. depending on frequency, why chance it? put the round in a box and save it for the range. chamber a new one. maybe go a few cycles, but eventually turn to fresh rounds if you going to bet the farm on it.

[JonF 79]

Like others have said, its the potential for bullet setback from repeated chamber *insertions* rather than *extractions* that you need to be concerned about. One way to effectively reduce this likelihood of this is when chambering a round, slowly ride the slide forward with your hand as it strips a new round from the magazine and feeds it into the chamber. Now, this goes against the normal prescribed practice of just slingshotting the slide to ensure positive feeding, but its fine if you just take care of making sure the slide goes fully forward into battery when guiding home it like this. Familiarity with your firearm will tell you if its fully forward and giving the rear of the slide a positive bump forward with the heel of your palm will help coax it that little bit if it hangs up any.

[diamondd817 827]

Repeadetly chambering and extracting the same round is not good as mentioned in the prior posts. That being said, you could always lock the slide back, insert a mag and keep the pistol in that condition until ready to use. You will not have to chamber the round over and over and you would only have to pull the slide back an 1/8" to chamber a round. Personally, I prefer to keep a hd/sd pistol ready to go with a round chambered and the slide in battery, safety off (if applicable).

[Shocker 151]

I use Hornady Critical Defense which has a cannelure to supposedly solve this exact problem, but I still rotate the top cartridge out to the back of the box when I unload for whatever reason.

[LennyTheLip 0]

I personally remove the round from my duty weapon's chamber every night when I arrive home. Thats 4-5 nights a week, for 6 straight months. I have never had an issue with any particular round when qualification time comes around. I also use my duty weapon for off-duty, concealed carry also. So, in a 6 month period, I remove and re-chamber the same round upwards of 150-200 times, if not more (4-5 nights a week X 4 weeks a month X 6 months between qualifying, not counting when I use it off duty) with no issues at all. That being said, I do on occasion, (maybe once in a 6 month time period), unload a mag and re-stack rounds in a different order. Unless you are keeping extremely cheap ammunition in your magazine, or have any damage to your extractor, I would worry about it too much.

[LennyTheLip 0]

Correction: Wouldn't worry too much.

[raz-0 1,259]

Correction: Wouldn't worry too much.

 

It can happen. Usually it just results in a teeny bit and some higher pressures. I've seen some pictures of some pretty serious setback due to administrative loading/unloading to the point I had to ask why would you put that back in.

 

There are lots of factors like crimp, sealant used, how hot/damp/cold the ammo got for how long in storage, what gun you are using and how straight the path from magazine to chamber is, etc.

 

 

[Old School 611]

I remember this topic coming up before.

 

Once a week I unload my pistol, take the chambered round and put it back in the mag, then reload with the same round.

 

I ease the slide down into battery when I load the pistol.

 

I have never eperienced any bullet set back and the bullet appears to be perfect after several dozen loadings.

 

Now if I repeatedly dropped the slide from open lock I would prehaps expect some set back.

[liquidskin 3]

Lots of good advice here, thanks for such a great response. I didn't think of keeping the slide locked back, that's not a bad idea but it does add an extra step if the SHTF. I also didn't consider easing the slide into battery. I was taught never to baby the slide, but ill practice this on snap caps. As of last night, a round is chambered. My plan is to stick that round at one side of the ammo box when it's ejected and replace it with a never chambered round. Some may consider it overkill, but doesn't hurt to be extra safe.

[woodentoe 14]

What about placing the round directly in the chamber through the ejection port, dropping the slide and then seating the mag. I do that frequently after dry fire practice.

[liquidskin 3]

What about placing the round directly in the chamber through the ejection port, dropping the slide and then seating the mag. I do that frequently after dry fire practice.

 

Interesting idea.. I feel like that wouldn't put any stress on the round at all. Anyone else do this?

[diamondd817 827]

What about placing the round directly in the chamber through the ejection port, dropping the slide and then seating the mag. I do that frequently after dry fire practice.

 

Glocks are not designed to have the slide dropped on a round. You can chip/damage the extractor. Beretta 92's on the other hand were designed to do this.

[Old School 611]

Interesting idea.. I feel like that wouldn't put any stress on the round at all. Anyone else do this?

 

NO, NO. NO!!!!!!

 

GLOCK expressly says not to load the chamber and then close the slide.

 

GLOCK pistols are controlled feed and the rim slips under the extractor as the slide moves forward.

 

I don't want to go into too much detail but don't do it!!!

[Bully 749]

^^^Listen to Frank on this.^^^

 

C

[liquidskin 3]

Woops, disaster averted! That's why I ask you guys these questions :-)

[JacksonLee 4]

 

NO, NO. NO!!!!!!

 

GLOCK expressly says not to load the chamber and then close the slide.

 

GLOCK pistols are controlled feed and the rim slips under the extractor as the slide moves forward.

 

I don't want to go into too much detail but don't do it!!!

 

Does this only apply to Glocks? Or as Diamondd817 said is it safe to do this to a Beretta 92? Or for that case, anything other then a Glock??

[Old School 611]

Does this only apply to Glocks? Or as Diamondd817 said is it safe to do this to a Beretta 92? Or for that case, anything other then a Glock??

 

Most modern pistols are controled feed and I would not do it. But I can only speak for GLOCK officially.

 

Why do it anyway? Let the pistol operate in the fashion it was designed to operate.

[Krdshrk 3,878]

Why do it anyway? Let the pistol operate in the fashion it was designed to operate.

 

Yup - Insert mag, Chamber a round, eject mag, put another bullet in. Done.

[woodentoe 14]

Most modern pistols are controled feed and I would not do it. But I can only speak for GLOCK officially.

 

Why do it anyway? Let the pistol operate in the fashion it was designed to operate.

 

I didn't think too much into it. Thanks for setting me straight. If I'm going to dry fire practice, I drop the mag and eject the round from the chamber. I practice with the mag out of the gun. when I'm done, rather than push the round into the mag that's pretty full and a pain to push, Id drop the round into the chamber, ease the slide down and seat the mag. I didn't realize I was doing harm.

 

My 9mm semi is a Ruger P95.

From the Ruger P95 Manual:

TO LOAD AND FIRE (WITHOUT MAGAZINE)

In the event that the magazine is missing or for training purposes (where it is desirable that only one cartridge be loaded and fired at a time for safety), the pistol can be fired with the magazine removed. To do so, keep the pistol pointed

in a safe direction, engage the safety (lever fully down, white dot and letter “S” exposed), grasp the slide, and retract it fully to the rear. Next, push the slide stop upward so that the slide remains to the rear. Insert a single cartridge directly and fully into the chamber. Taking care to keep the pistol pointed in a safe direction, depress the slide stop. This will cause the slide to move vigorously forward into the firing position. WARNING: The pistol is ready for instant use in the single-action mode once the slide moves forward and the safety is disengaged.

 

The Ruger P95 is designed to fire without a magazine in case of loss and doesn't have a mag disconnect. Why would the manual explicitly say this is a function if it would cause harm?

Edited September 26, 2012 by woodentoe

[Mikeythumbs 1]

 

 

I didn't think too much into it. Thanks for setting me straight. If I'm going to dry fire practice, I drop the mag and eject the round from the chamber. I practice with the mag out of the gun. when I'm done, rather than push the round into the mag that's pretty full and a pain to push, Id drop the round into the chamber, ease the slide down and seat the mag. I didn't realize I was doing harm.

 

My 9mm semi is a Ruger P95.

From the Ruger P95 Manual:

TO LOAD AND FIRE (WITHOUT MAGAZINE)

In the event that the magazine is missing or for training purposes (where it is desirable that only one cartridge be loaded and fired at a time for safety), the pistol can be fired with the magazine removed. To do so, keep the pistol pointed

in a safe direction, engage the safety (lever fully down, white dot and letter “S” exposed), grasp the slide, and retract it fully to the rear. Next, push the slide stop upward so that the slide remains to the rear. Insert a single cartridge directly and fully into the chamber. Taking care to keep the pistol pointed in a safe direction, depress the slide stop. This will cause the slide to move vigorously forward into the firing position. WARNING: The pistol is ready for instant use in the single-action mode once the slide moves forward and the safety is disengaged.

 

The Ruger P95 is designed to fire without a magazine in case of loss and doesn't have a mag disconnect. Why would the manual explicitly say this is a function if it would cause harm?

 

It seems there are controlled feed guns that dropping the slide would do damage and ones like yours that are not controlled feed. Kinda line a bolt gun that the round slips into slots in the face of the bolt ( controlled feed) and others that just catch the rim of the cartridge as the the bolt is closed (push feed). If the manual states it's ok then do it if it says not too dont

[GRIZ 3,369]

Leaving the slide locked back is an awkward way of storing your pistol. Chambering the same round 150-200 times is taking too many chances AFAIC no matter how high quality your ammo is. That first round is the most important. If you haven't experienced bullet setback you're just pushing the envelope. You're also tearing up the extractor groove chambering that same round that many times. Every semi-auto pistol I know of is designed to be fed rounds from the magazine not dropping a round directly into the chamber including Beretta 92s. Loading in this manner is hard on the extractor, harder on some designs. Jeff Cooper advised against this type of loading with 1911s. However I must also add I have never seen a broken extractor I could attribute to this type of loading. Easing the slide forward is not something I would advise unless you really know what you're doing.

 

 

 

 

Yup - Insert mag, Chamber a round, eject mag, put another bullet in. Done.

 

This is the same advice I would give. I would also say after 4-5 times, earlier if you see a problem, take that round and replace it with a new one.

[Polak 3]

If you don't keep one chambered, practice racking the slide before you aim at your target.

[GRIZ 3,369]

If you don't keep one chambered, practice racking the slide before you aim at your target.

 

What you are advocating is often called an Israeli Carry. IIRC this method of carry was adopted because local armories in Israel would have a mix of handguns. HPs, P38s, Berettas, Helwans, Lugers, and whatever had been acquired. It was easier to train people to carry in Condition 3 (full mag) and rack the slide as this worked with any semi auto. Yeah it takes less than a second but...

 

The problem with this is when you are in a confrontational situation you want to minimize what you have to do. Even on the range I have seen people forget to sweep off the safety when they knew they were going to fire. This is one of the arguments I heard against semi autos in the 70s and 80s. This is why SIG,Ruger, and others offer guns with a hammer drop only no safety. Simplicity is what makes a DA revolver or striker fired semi like a Glock so appealing. Safe when ready to go.

 

Its easy to get wrapped up in "the Israelis do it" as they do many things well. Carrying a defensive pistol in Condition 3 is not one of them. Think of a duel. While you are racking your slide I'm shooting. Most of the time in a defensive situation the bad guy already has his gun out. You'd only be giving him more of an edge.

[blksheep 466]

If you don't keep one chambered, practice racking the slide before you aim at your target.

 

Phenomenal idea.

[blksheep 466]

 

 

What you are advocating is often called an Israeli Carry. IIRC this method of carry was adopted because local armories in Israel would have a mix of handguns. HPs, P38s, Berettas, Helwans, Lugers, and whatever had been acquired. It was easier to train people to carry in Condition 3 (full mag) and rack the slide as this worked with any semi auto. Yeah it takes less than a second but...

 

The problem with this is when you are in a confrontational situation you want to minimize what you have to do. Even on the range I have seen people forget to sweep off the safety when they knew they were going to fire. This is one of the arguments I heard against semi autos in the 70s and 80s. This is wht SIG,Ruger, and others offer guns with a hammer drop only no safety. Simplicity is what makes a DA revolver or striker fires semi like a Glock so appealing. Safe when ready to go.

 

Its easy to get wrapped up in "the Israelis do it" as they do many things well. Carrying a defensive pistol in Condition 3 is not one of them. Think of a duel. While you are racking your slide I'm shooting. Most of the time in a defensive situation the bad guy already has his gun out. You'd only be giving him more of an edge.

 

This

[High Exposure 5,666]

Not keeping a gun intended for self defense loaded is dumb. If you are that uncomfortable with your chosen firearm, keep a bat next to your bed until you get enough range time to feel proficient. The bat makes a better club than an unloaded handgun, and is easier to remove from your posterior than a handgun after a bad guys shoves it up there when it goes *click* instead of *BANG*

 

One a round is loaded I consider it "used". If that round is removed from the weapon, it goes directly into the training cache and a "new" round is loaded into the chamber.

 

In addition to bullet setback, you can have issues with "hardening" or "deadening" your primer, creating a Failure To Fire (FTF) malfunction or cause a slamfire.

 

In an AR with its floating firing pin, you can even create a divot that will prevent the firing pin from striking the primer.

 

Bad juju.

 

Your life is worth the $0.24 for the new round.