What Should We Trade?

[Handyman 5,682]

In looking at the flurry of laws the antis have come up with, we need to find opportunity. We need to find willing legislators who will wheel and deal on our behalf. For example:

 

 

-Should we be willing to accept a 10 round magazine limit if NJ became a "shall issue" state? If this were to succeed we could likely demonstrate that in a few years crime did not dramatically rise, so there is no reason for the 10 round limit.

 

-Should we be willing to accept photo ID FID if we can force the state to alter the process? Since we will now have a "cadillac" background check, we should become "shall issue," pistol purchase permits will no longer be required, and NJ will get rid of its stupid paper process and use NICS the same way everyone else does.

 

 

I am not saying I am in favor of any of the bills currently up for consideration. But the fact is, some of them will be passed and we should find a way to ride their coattails.

 

We need to find someone (McHose) that will sponsor some of these things and put the other side on the defensive. We are always knocked on our heels and we need to now attack. Hard.

[blksheep 466]

Never give back or in...they will always take more... comming from a union guy...

 

Think of it this way.

 

You can be raped one of two ways...

 

Giving in and giving up and compromising or

 

You may still get raped but at least you fought the whole way...

[ryan_j 0]

I'm not willing to give up anything. But if they are pushing 10 round limit and not backing down, CCW shall issue would be nice to have.

[blksheep 466]

Never happen

[Underdog 1,593]

They are used to us giving in to shut them up for a little while, while they plan the next covert action against our nation, its institutions, and the people.

 

It would be ridiculous, absurd, to give them ANYTHING. Why do you think they have 42 bills? They are hoping that some stick, to continue the movement toward disarmament and enslavement. The statists are running rabid in our state houses, schools, media, accident chasers and continuously attacking anyone that doesn't agree with their agenda.

 

Trade them this! We will let them take what little pension and pay they have accumulated screwing We the People when the door whacks them in their asses on the way out.

[Handyman 5,682]

Wait...hang on my BS meter is overdrive.....

 

Lemme see....in other threads you are calling for armed insurrection..... *NOW* you are calling for compromise...??

 

Which is it?

 

Until they give us the final "F you" and these laws are signed, there is time for compromise. Liberals always talk about compromise, finding common ground, etc. Give them one last chance to prove themselves liars before armed insurrection.

[PDM 91]

I think compromise is the wrong word. I used to think, naively, that compromise was possible. But compromise assumes that the other side is operating in good faith. They aren't. It assumes that the other side is acting rationally. They aren't. People like Cryan and Mainor are self-serving, opportunistic, inept, lowlifes, plain and simple. As others have pointed out, this is largely a political ploy to put the screws to Governor Christie. There is no compromising with them.

 

However, that doesn't mean we shouldn't be smart. Knowing that they and their cohorts will do everything in their power to ram through the 10 round limit, if I were in the Assembly I would make the following argument if it became clear that we didn't have the votes to prevent the bill from passing:

 

"No logical justification has been given for the change to the 10 round limit from the longstanding 15, and the change will do nothing to enhance public safety but will impede on the ability of law abiding people to defend themselves, and I oppose it. However, the amendment to the bill allowing retired police officers -- including many members of this Assembly -- to keep their 15 round magazines offends basic notions of fair play and common sense. If magazines over 10 rounds present a public safety risk, why are retired police exempt? Because of their training? Well then impose a training requirement to keep them. In any event, if 15 round magazines are inherently "dangerous" training has nothing to do with it. So, I will vote for this bill if it grandfathers in everyone who legally purchased magazines under existing law or if the amendment is removed so that the law applies to everyone."

[greatgunstatenj 32]

Liberals always talk about compromise, finding common ground, etc.

 

And that is all it is, talk. I would replace "Liberals" with "Politicians" because they are all the same. They* won't be happy until all guns are out of the hands of citizens, start compromising now and it's like adding grease to an already slippery slope. NJ is way too far down the slope already.

 

*edit: By "They" I was referring to these particular politicians in NJ, not all politicians [in case the previous sentence gave that impression].

[JustJoe 0]

CCW will never happen. But since we are star grazing I would like to see the OGAM and the current P2P process gone. Which will not happen either. Does not mean I giving up or quitting or loosing my balls...

 

Edit---What's the other side offering?? That's right, they are fixing to infringe on us even more. So, no. I'm not offering anything either.

[Kingsoverqueens 10]

Nothing. Not a damn thing.

 

There isn't anything proposed that is going to make any one of us, or anyone else safer.

 

The only option is to tell them to scrape the whole damn thing and start over.

 

Let them focus on enforcing the laws on the books. Mandatory sentences would be a good start.

[Bowling Ball 22]

Never give in or give anything up. NEVER.

 

This will be a fight, they know it, but it's great political posturing for them, so their anti friends can pat them on the back and vote for them again in November.

[Handyman 5,682]

We can work this against them. As they start to pass some of this shite, we have to start arguing, "Great, your screening process is now so excellent and secure there is no reson not to allow people who pass it to carry."

 

"Sinnce 10 round magazine are so safe and prevent mayhem, there is no reason not to allow people to carry."

 

Etc...

[Handyman 5,682]

I'm not saying we should willingingly give up anything. But lets have a day in the statehouse where the committee needs to hear testimony on 25 pro-2A bills.

[JustJoe 0]

We can work this against them. As they start to pass some of this shite, we have to start arguing, "Great, your screening process is now so excellent and secure there is no reson not to allow people who pass it to carry."

 

"Sinnce 10 round magazine are so safe and prevent mayhem, there is no reason not to allow people to carry."

 

Etc...

 

Sure. To which they'll reply: since 10 is working so well, 5 would work even better, .no? They'll eventually "chop my head" off but won't willingly walk up to the chopping block, kneel and place my head on it. I'll will resist by any **legal** means necessary at every step of the way.

[Hooligan 0]

Allow them to increase mag capacity from 15 to 30, and in return we'll accept shall-issue CCW.

[le_boudin 2]

Allow them to increase mag capacity from 15 to 30, and in return we'll accept shall-issue CCW.

 

 

 

way to go!

[M1152 713]

Never give back or in...they will always take more... coming from a union guy...

 

^

^

^

This

 

we didn't do anything wrong so this is NO need to compromise. For myself I'm close to retirement and planned to stay in NJ for a while longer but "if" by chance any of these new proposed regs become law that will just speed up the clock for us to leave. IMO the gun laws are just a symptom. this state has been f**ked for a long time and "if" we can't stop this I'm out sooner than later.

 

I'd like to remind everyone of the state motto which is "Liberty and Prosperity", Thanks to the azzholes in Trenton the people of NJ haven't had any Liberty or Prosperity in a long time, However career NJ politicians have done very well over the last few years.

[tom catman 0]

i could live without an ak....while keeping a ar....the ak is not very accurate,the ar is a target rifle.a 10 round limit would be liveable but that would be if n.j. went to a pro n.f.a. state. ... that way i could keep the fifties....or get better toys.

[Mike48 0]

I think mandatory Basic Firearms Safety Training should be incorporated somewhere along the line...I think its in our interest

[Kingsoverqueens 10]

I think mandatory Basic Firearms Safety Training should be incorporated somewhere along the line...I think its in our interest

That can be accomplished in school, or with the Eddie the Eagle program, scouts, or something similar.

 

I have no problem with a range requiring a basic safety course as a condition of membership or before you can buy tunnel time.

 

I do NOT want the government specifiying what type of education is necessary before buying a firearm.

 

I'd be willing to discuss some form of education as a requirement for CCW.

[JustJoe 0]

i could live without an ak....while keeping a ar....the ak is not very accurate,the ar is a target rifle.a 10 round limit would be liveable but that would be if n.j. went to a pro n.f.a. state. ... that way i could keep the fifties....or get better toys.

I think mandatory Basic Firearms Safety Training should be incorporated somewhere along the line...I think its in our interest

 

Again I ask: what are they offering? Where are our 23 pro bills??

 

[djg0770 481]

I think mandatory Basic Firearms Safety Training should be incorporated somewhere along the line...I think its in our interest

 

37,485 people were killed by prescription drugs. http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2011/10/26/prescription-drugs-number-one-cause-preventable-death-in-us.aspx

 

I think there should be training prior to using prescription drugs - I mean really, look at the deadly effect of these things!

 

/dckhead off

[GRIZ 3,369]

In looking at the flurry of laws the antis have come up with, we need to find opportunity. We need to find willing legislators who will wheel and deal on our behalf. For example:

 

 

-Should we be willing to accept a 10 round magazine limit if NJ became a "shall issue" state? If this were to succeed we could likely demonstrate that in a few years crime did not dramatically rise, so there is no reason for the 10 round limit.

 

-Should we be willing to accept photo ID FID if we can force the state to alter the process? Since we will now have a "cadillac" background check, we should become "shall issue," pistol purchase permits will no longer be required, and NJ will get rid of its stupid paper process and use NICS the same way everyone else does.

 

 

I am not saying I am in favor of any of the bills currently up for consideration. But the fact is, some of them will be passed and we should find a way to ride their coattails.

 

We need to find someone (McHose) that will sponsor some of these things and put the other side on the defensive. We are always knocked on our heels and we need to now attack. Hard.

 

So much has been comprimised there is nothing left to deal with. You have to face the fact that the liberal left wing politicians WANT TO TAKE ALL GUNS FROM THE CITIZENRY. That's their goal period.

 

I would accept a photi FID if it replaced the cumbersome permitting system that exists and you can buy handguns with it. That would be a win and that's not the current proposal.

 

 

 

Until they give us the final "F you" and these laws are signed, there is time for compromise. Liberals always talk about compromise, finding common ground, etc. Give them one last chance to prove themselves liars before armed insurrection.

 

They have given us the final f.u. long ago. Give them another chance? You have to be kidding. That sounds like a "Jews for Hitler for Chief Chancellor" movement. That would have done them a lot of good. There are others on this forum who claim to be pr 2A and proudly let it be known they voted for Obamanocchio both times. There has been no president that not only wants to take your guuns as much as he does (remember his guns and religion statement) but wants to turn this country to Socialism.

 

They don't want to trust you with an 11 rd magazine. What makes you think they'll then trust you with a CCW?

[scatterbrains 0]

No damn comprimise, they take ENOUGH, and we get nothing back.

 

If these pass i will not comply and i am already plotting my escape from NJ.

[Metalflames 0]

i could live without an ak....while keeping a ar....the ak is not very accurate,the ar is a target rifle.a 10 round limit would be liveable but that would be if n.j. went to a pro n.f.a. state. ... that way i could keep the fifties....or get better toys.

Good for you. Why not just give them all of your freedom while your at it.

I think mandatory Basic Firearms Safety Training should be incorporated somewhere along the line...I think its in our interest

Your right too. I should have to take a course to defend myself, better yet the state should teach criminals how to be as good of a crook as they are.

 

Come on people wake up. This is not something you compromise on. I negotiate contracts. Do you know why COMPANIES propose shift differentials to employees. TO SPLIT THE VOTE!!! You win battles when you divide forces. If you can't stick together as one we will ALL suffer the same fate.

[pbkid6974 1]

I think we should trade in most of our reps for new ones. Ones that don't whine and cry about law abiding citizens. Ones that believe in life liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

[Mike48 0]

 

 

Come on people wake up. This is not something you compromise on. I negotiate contracts. Do you know why COMPANIES propose shift differentials to employees. TO SPLIT THE VOTE!!! You win battles when you divide forces. If you can't stick together as one we will ALL suffer the same fate.

boy...can I identify with that

 

ok, I will wake up now...

[Metalflames 0]

I negotiate contracts as well..... there is always a middle.....however stomping your feet like an insulent child at times does more damages than good...like it or not they currently wield.power ...it is now yo find a way to.usurp that power...now and in the future

The shall not be infringed comment is right. When we start talking about the second amendment it's like talking about what gas cost in 50's.

 

As far as meeting in the middle. On could say we have. 15 is half of 30. They DO give permits but only to a chosen few. Ect ect. The contract point was more to say we need to stick together. If one guy says " ok take the Ak's but not the AR's" or sure "cut the mags again but give a few more chosen few a CCW" your now dividing the votes and the ultimate cause of which is not to have legislation dictated to us.

 

If you give them an inch they will want a foot and so on. At this point in time NJ without changing a thing, still ranks as one of the strictest states to own a gun in. Even with other states proposals and the expected federal laws we will still be top 5. So in the 20 years the current laws have been in place has it helped crime and violence? I would say no. So you would think the state being used as a case study would have people trying to think outside of the box and find a new solution to an age old problem. But no, more laws on the bases of protecting people. The states and feds will do this until all the guns are gone. Which will happen, maybe not in your or my lifetime but it will happen. So why would we expedite the process for them?

 

If people start to believe for a second they will get their CCW out of this they are crazy. Personally I feel any talk of it is completely detrimental to the fight. It goes back to the shift differential. Just the idea of it splits the unified force that a large group of people have if they remain as one.

[JustJoe 0]

I negotiate contracts as well..... there is always a middle........

 

What are they offering so we can meet in the middle?

[Bowling Ball 22]

My fight is for liberty and the constitution.

 

The rest of the goodies like castle law and ccw come with winning the constitution back.

 

The politicians from both sides only understand two things. Themselves and re-election.

 

Edited February 15, 2013 by Bowling Ball