Precious metals getting hammered today

[monmouth 19]

In a true SHTF situation what value would a piece of metal like silver or gold actually have? For me, food, water and ammo would be more valuable than a safe full of gold or silver. I can't eat it, drink it or defend myself with it. But that would be a serious shtf situation and we have been told that will never happen so we are good.

 

Gold would be used to buy land, silver used to buy crop materials and equipment. Gold is the metal of kings and lords, silver is the metal of the workers or merchants.

 

Investing in metals can be very simple and ways to increase wealth regardless of market direction. Silver is the stripper that when she gets high, oh boy is she fun to party with and everybody wants a piece of her. When the high wears off and the party ends, she crashes hard and becomes unwanted. Gold is grandma. Everyone loves grandma because she has that loving glow about her, stable, never parties, makes you dinner and cookies yet always there for you when times are tough.

 

If anyone is interested, let me know and I can demonstrate a long term precious metal strategy that works in either the paper (futures, etf, etc..) or physical market.

 

ps, the metals are still consolidating unless there's a major breakdown soon.

[monmouth 19]

every place you buy, will have a cost over spot. thats normal, and thats how precious metal companies make their money. apmex is a very good online company. ive bought several thousand worth of gold/silver over the past year or so through them. their shipping is higher then others, but they have more options as to round/bar sizes. jm bullion is also good, with cheaper shipping, but less options.

 

also keep in mind when buying US minted coins, youre paying a premium for them being minted by the treasury and having face value. if you get a private minting, all youre paying for is the silver/gold itself. likewise, bear in mind that buying things like silver quarters, dimes, dollars, etc, are only part silver. not 100% silver, or at least 99.9999% pure. so not only are you paying for the 'coin' as a coin, but youre not getting the full weight in silver.

 

case in point: apmex mints their own rounds and bars, which are typically cheaper then anything else. they make their own version of the mercury dime, the same size, shape, and nearly same design. yet theirs is 99.999% pure silver, as opposed to 40-70%, which most US coins were.

 

also, apmex sells grab bags of generic silver rounds/bars, as well as industrial silver shot. its a very cheap way to get pure silver, and easy to pick out the exact weight when buy/trading/bartering.

 

apmex shot: http://www.apmex.com...t_999_Fine.aspx

 

http://www.jmbullion...er/silver-bars/

 

Oh boy, red flags in your strategy. "Purchasing" metal "cheaply" should revolve around the premium over spot and the universally excepted state of the bullion. With regards to bullion, door stops generally have the lowest premium over spot and Eagles carry the highest. Investing in silver shot can be bad, very bad.

[monmouth 19]

Yup, pre 1964 junk silver is the most recognizable.

[EchoMirage 137]

Oh boy, red flags in your strategy. "Purchasing" metal "cheaply" should revolve around the premium over spot and the universally excepted state of the bullion. With regards to bullion, door stops generally have the lowest premium over spot and Eagles carry the highest. Investing in silver shot can be bad, very bad.

 

no i dont think so. should the economy fail, and currency fall back to silver/gold, things will more then likely be valued as an amount, in ounces, of either silver or gold. a rifle could be worth 5 ounces of silver. well if all you have are junk silver half dollars.... are you going to sit and do the math and try and barter the merchant with your 40% silver? im not scared by your statements, and will continue to buy full weight silver rounds AND shot.

[Buckrussell 0]

Math? There's .715 ounces of silver in 90% coins per dollar face, except dollar coins which have .773. It's not rocket science, that's how we purchase the coins, it how the local coin shop comes up with their price. Need 5 ounces? Simple, divide .715 by 5 and you find that you need $7 face......

 

Edit

 

I'm just wondering how you'll prove that the silver shot is the purity that you claim it is when trying to sell/barter, let alone find someone willing to take it. If we both went to the same Person that wanted to trade silver for an item, and I have 90% halves and you have a bag of shot, you'll be leaving empty handed. I know not a single person that would take it for ANYTHING. Fact is that 90% is more widely recognized than any other form of AG in the country and perhaps the world.

[Vlad G 345]

I'm venturing a guess here, but at the numbers they are selling Silver Eagles are or will be as recognized as anything. The problem with pre 64 coins is that they are getting harder to find by the minute and they have wear so if it comes to using silver as currency you might have some arguments about how worn a coin is and how much silver has it lost. I've seen coins as much as 7% under weight from wear. The other things is that silver bars and medallions are easy enough to verify if you really need to. Shot, I would be a bit circumspect of in a trade scenario because how do you test every single bead? You would need to melt it and have it assayed.

 

Personally I don't think it will come to using silver as currency, as much as using it a means of storing value in case of inflation. There have been cases in the last decades where silver and gold were used as currency in economic collapses (Argentina and Yugoslavia come to mind) but even then it was a very temporary solution to lack of any currency. I'm guessing that most of the time you will trade it for currency and use it, or trade it for local or market script. If you really are worried about that store silver and gold chains. Apparently they were used quite a bit in Yugoslavia because they were portable and you could cut the length you needed.

[mipafox 438]

I'm venturing a guess here, but at the numbers they are selling Silver Eagles are or will be as recognized as anything. The problem with pre 64 coins is that they are getting harder to find by the minute and they have wear so if it comes to using silver as currency you might have some arguments about how worn a coin is and how much silver has it lost. I've seen coins as much as 7% under weight from wear.

 

I've got junk coins at all levels of wear and as long as they are not sliders (can't read date) none are less than a couple percent off and most are less than one percent off.  Not matter how bad they look.

 

Except - dimes.

 

Dimes need to be weighed.

 

And why would a bubble possibly get hammered? LOL

[Buckrussell 0]

Vlad, you can just weigh them and divide by .9 and you'll have actual silver weight.........

[Dan 177]

There are many variables when it comes to surviving a financial collapse. What I have read from the Argentinian collapse, physical cash will be the most valuable at first. The govt will close all the banks, and CC companies will freeze accounts in the event of a currency hyperinflation situation. They will ration withdrawals, making hard cash in hand the most valuable and wanted thing for making purchases. Forget your checkbooks and credit/debit cards. Just look at the hard cash in circulation versus what is electronically stored for an idea. Even now, if you wanted to withdraw $20K in cash, its not like banks have that sitting around. They don't have rooms full of money like in the movies. You have to order it ahead of time and make arrangements. This would be impossible in a collapse situation.

 

After that will most likely come precious metals. Look at how many "cash for gold" places there are now. Imagine that x20. You will have to shop these places in order to find the one that gouges you the least when it comes to trading PM's for cash. You may find a merchant who is skilled enough or willing to take the risk in terms of trading goods for PM's. Easily recognizable PM coinage would be the best. Jewelery would come second as it takes more skill to determine if they are fake.

 

Just IMO.

[Buckrussell 0]

Ferfal........

[Maksim 1,504]

Gold is done... as I have been saying for the past few. Been short gold and triple short gold stocks since mid $1700's.

 

It is a bubble as much as the tech bubble, real estate, and oil were.

 

 

Edit... Silver is a better alternative. By far, long term it was under valued. You can pick up 40% coins at or below spot from almost any coin shop. 90% is a bit more collectible.

 

I do have a roll of 64 halves if someone really wants. I just feel bad I did not sell $5 ago. =)

[71ragtopgoat 23]

I think cash is king in a crisis. Second to that is American coin silver. Third silver eagles.

Gold is just to darn flashy start whipping out an once trying to buy stuff and someone will take your head off.

But which is the cheapest to buy silver from?? MTD,APMEX or JM.

Just talking silver eagles.

[Buckrussell 0]

They make those gold eagles in tenth, quarter, and half ounce increments too!

[Vlad G 345]

Gold is done... as I have been saying for the past few. Been short gold and triple short gold stocks since mid $1700's.

 

Its not an investment, its a hedge, PMs in general.

[Walt of Destiny 412]

They make those gold eagles in tenth, quarter, and half ounce increments too!

 

Not for nuthin' but an acquaintance bought a bunch of coins and ingots that are "reproductions" with very little gold in them. He figures if the shtf for real, he'll be able to trade with the enterprising gougers that would immediately surface, at least until the situation stabilized. They look and feel real. Plated. He figures it would take time to establish testing protocols that would expose him. Probably expose him to gun fire.

 

 

Walt

[RubberBullets 65]

If I wanted to put 1-2k into silver tomorrow.. where would I get my best price..and would it be worth getting say 5oz bars rather than coins?

[4redz 2]

I've been waiting for an entry point, though it still may be early. I bought 20 privately minted "SilverTowne" one oz bars directly from them on Friday. After factoring their free shipping and the ability to use my credit card (as opposed to other places requiring a wire transfer) it worked out to be a few pennies better than JMB or Apmex. My theory is if cash is in my bank, I'll spend it. I will soon forget all about silver in my safe.

[Old Glock guy 1,127]

Gold is done...

 

Maks, how can you say that in the face of a nearly 17 trillion dollar national debt and one trillion plus annual deficits as far as one can see into the future? If the U.S. dollar collapses, or at least falls prey to rampant inflation, gold has historically been a preservation of wealth.

 

I'm ready to move a lot of money into gold on this dip, and I'm curious why you feel otherwise.

[Buckrussell 0]

Rubber bullet, find a local coin shop. Pay cash.

[Walt of Destiny 412]

You guys ever read the reportable tangible asset transaction rules? Just as bad a PRNJ gun laws.

 

Even cash transactions over several days could get you a jackpot.

 

Is "overthrow" too strong a word? Some time ago it crossed the line to actually being treasonous to NOT act. The elites want us disarmed, with no assets, and driving priuses.

 

But I digress.

 

 

[RubberBullets 65]

If I wanted to put 1-2k into silver tomorrow.. where would I get my best price..and would it be worth getting say 5oz bars rather than coins?

Rubber bullet, find a local coin shop. Pay cash.

 

and buy what? 1oz bars? 5?

 

If coins..eagles? Other types of minted coin? proofs?

 

 

Im trying to read up but there is sooo much info going so many different directions. Im not planning on the world ending tomorrow and ill be bartering silver pieces.. would rather just have something of value rather than USD sitting in my safe.

[71ragtopgoat 23]

Well I think there are only 8 dealers registered to buy bullion from the US mint so going to a local guy will probably not get you the best deal.I would go to one of the online dealers listed above and buy from them. I would buy eagles.

You pay more then other coins/forms but when it comes time to sell you will probably get more for them.

[Buckrussell 0]

I'd buy a junk, 1 ounce rounds or bars and a couple 10 ounce bars. Generic 999 is fine.

[iRONman 7]

Nice. Scored on a couple of American eagles. Time to buy now

[iRONman 7]

If I wanted to put 1-2k into silver tomorrow.. where would I get my best price..and would it be worth getting say 5oz bars rather than coins?

eBay apmex

[wooly bugger 1]

A friend suggested that silver is used in industry more than gold. Therefore, in an economic collapse, with industry grinding to a halt, it might lose value. Does this make sense? I'm liking Damjan's French Roosters. Relatively small denomination, and since they're government issued, probably better recognition than privately minted bullion.

 

Agree with the statement that this is a hedge, not an investment. If I'm net zero in the long run, that's fine with me. No worse than having cash in the bank. In the unlikely chance that our economy continues along historical trends, I'm counting on stocks for retirement. If not, I'm not counting on retirement.

 

Thanks, Vlad, for the historical context. I'm going to study these more extensively, since history is probably a better indicator of what we'll face than fevered apocalyptic fantasy.

[Mike48 0]

http://www.ebay.com/gds/15-EASIEST-WAYS-TO-SPOT-ALL-CHINESE-FAKE-SILVER-COINS/10000000005091228/g.htmlhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5obdQClOrb0

 

if you google 'chinese fake silver' you will see more....much more...

 

I am going to feel better about selling my .22lr to someone with US pre 1964 dimes (which are less worth counterfieting) than US silver Eagles.....or even old silver dollars.........actually my .22 might buy a loaf of bread without conversion.

[AlDente67 563]

I used to work as a stockbrocker back in the day for a major brokerage (think bull). One of the products we carried was metals on paper.. some customers would demand to take physical possession after getting eaten up with annual fees. So what happened? They got nailed in fees to drive to Delaware to pick up the metal. So paper metal is suspect.

 

Therefore physical metal...the problem is that you can't be sure of the quality without a professional assay test. If I tell you my coin is 99.99 pure gold or silver, so what? I have no proof. At this point, and gold bars are suspect of being part tungsten, which is roughly the same weight but almost worthless. It is said that fakers don't bother with coins (yet) because the potential ripoff is not that lucrative, but something to be aware of. I haven't heard yet of any shenanigans with silver.

 

The issues that I see with physical metal are these two:

 

-Try selling a gold coin, silver coin, bar, diamond, or similar. You'll get raped on the offer by most dealers. They don't make any profit if they give you spot price. Diamonds are the worst in this regard.

 

-Metal values are not much different than dollars...it is whatever value someone is willing to pay or trade for. Ammo has a value that goes beyond the cash equivalent because it can be used for a purpose. In an emergency situation, you can find food (game) with ammo, or fight off the zombies, or intimidate your neighbors for a loaf of bread, or fight off your neigbors who want your loaf of bread, and so on.

Silver coins aren't very valuable unless the next guy has in his mind that they are worth something. If not, you can try to sling them at rabbits for your dinner.

[Mike48 0]

I could probably kill a rabbit with a pre 1964 dime....but not a dollar bill...or paper gold and silver.

 

the prob with .22 lr is that jingling around in yer pocket, they are going to disintegrate....

 

Junk silver coins have known value....they dont need an assay, as long as you trust that they are not fake.

 

silver can be cast into a good bullet.....or arrowhead

[Vlad G 345]

I don't know why people rush to the Zombie apocalypse type scenario when arguing that silver or gold would be useless in a collapses scenario. Collapses come in all sorts of types, sizes, and shapes, I can point out a few hundred collapses throughout history where things got really bad but precious metals held their value. Or perhaps I should say held some value.

 

I think there is a certain degree of arrogance in every generation, that says our civilization can't fail. Yet every civilization in the past has failed. If we are lucky it won't happen in our lifetimes, but every past paper currency has become worthless at some point. Mind you, I don't think we have a good alternative, we do need to use fiat currencies for a number of reasons, but as soon as confidence fails we have problems.

 

I'm amused when people tell Me they can't eat gold. Well, they can't eat paper money either, or stock certificates or oil future either. Mind you, I'm not on of those people's that think only gold is money and all that jazz, and I'm not rich enough to be able to spend a lot on precious metals, but their are a hedge.