What makes an US M1 Carbine no go for nj?

[Hare Trigger 0]

I visited my relatives out of state that are holding onto mine for me and I got to pet it. No ammo available to shoot it thou. If this ammo frenzy ever lightens up I'll buy some and bring it with me next year.

[RobertJames 14]

First rifle I will buy when I leave NJ. An AK will follow shortly thereafter.

[Pythagoras 2]

First rifle I will buy when I leave NJ.

Me, too. Immediately followed by a FN-PS90, with a SBR stamp so I don't need that stupid extra long barrel on it.

[BMWR12 35]

No gun is labeled M1 carbine on the reciever that I know of.The reciever says US30ML or something like that. It is just a vague ban. Everything is banned by model,type, or series. There were hundred of thousands of M1 carbines that would comply with the NJAWB rules. I believe if it was challanged like the colt match target and M1a it would suceed. The OA M1 was approved by NJSP but denied by the AG after too many people called the SP,but it was never fought in court.

[Heavyopp 167]

Plainfield Machine works was in Dunellen not middlesex -- I drive by the building everyday -- When I was a kid it was a Quick check -- Now it's a day care/nursery school

[ADK1113 1]

let's see...what's wrong with this law. EVERYTHING. let's start with the fact that an "M1 carbine type" weapon system is completely NJ legal bare bones without any modification, and lets be honest there aren't too many semi auto rifles that can do that. If anything the M1 carbine should be the POSTER CHILD of what an NJ legal semiautomatic sporting rifle is. Standard M1 carbines have only one of the following:

A semi-automatic rifle that has the ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least two of the following:

 

(1) A folding or telescoping stock;

 

(2) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon;

 

(3) A bayonet mount

 

(4) A flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor; and

 

(5) A grenade launcher;

 

and that is an "Evil" feature that could be removed ,albeit damaging the value of the firearm Nor is it an SBR ( 18 in barrel 36 in. overall length). They were first fielded with, hey what do you know.. 15 round magazines! also NJ legal

 

the only possible "reason" i could see for banning them stems from the M1A1 carbine because it has a folding stock ( don't even get me started on those asinine laws either) the enforcer pistols ( M1 carbine "ASSAULT" pistols) and the M2 and M3 select fire versions which had not only a fully automatic function but also had the T23 FLASHIDER ( scary scary scary). but As any respectable gun owner knows, those are all different weapons from the "M1 Carbine type" that the law makes a specific reference to, hence all the different designations of M1A1, Enforcer, M2, M3 and the like. Funny thing they can be as specific as they want about a firearm when it suits them, but as soon as we start splitting hairs...

 

anyways all that venting/ranting brings me to my next point

If a weapon that is not a USGI M1 carbine ( military issue) is brought into NJ it wouldn't be "Substantially identical" to the M1 carbine.

to be substantially Identical it must have a detachable magazine ( which it does) and 2 of the following:

(1) A folding or telescoping stock;

(2) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon;

(3) A bayonet mount;

(4) A flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor;

(5) A grenade launcher

which it DOESN'T ( it only has ONE) and a lot of civilian versions do not even have the bayonet mount, thus making it a big fat ZERO , therefore wouldn't that mean that a civilian copy of the M1 Carbine would thus be legal versus an original USGI M1 carbine that is banned by the good political asshats of NJ? These copies were marketed to the general public and police agencies but were not made for or used by the U.S. military, thus not being the same weapon in both name and practice.

by that logic this would make certain models of "civilian sporting rifles" NJ legal such as:

 

Certain Auto-Ordnance AOM model(s) as follows:

AOM110 ( has a standard metal heat shield) and birch stock and furniture and rotary safety

AOM120 ( also has non standard heat shield) birch furniture and rotary safety and comes with 10 rd magazine which makes it so that it's even CA legal...

( Note: I am referring to the solid stock versions of both, there are also paratrooper style models as well which are obviously illegal in NJ by their laws. Also these two models are discontinued, however they are still floating around)

AOM130 Walnut furniture and doesn't even have the bayonet lug, just an early type GI barrel band

AOM140 same as above but once again CA legal with a 10 round magazine

AOM150 ILLEGAL due to folding stock

AOM160 ILLEGAL due to folding stock (and i think it looks hideous, trying to Tacticool out an M1 carbine)

 

ERMA Werke model(s) as follows:

ERMA-Werke Model E M1 .22 LR Self-Loading Rimfire Rifle

ERMA-Werke Model EGMI 70. The stock had no sling hole, the front sight had an elevated single blade also .22LR)

you will also see excam importing ESG 22, the E M1 modified for the .22 Winchester Magnum Rimfire cartridge

Note: these were completely different rifles internally they were gas operated, straight blowback versus gas operated rotating bolt like a true M1 Carbine

 

Israeli Arms International

Model M888 The shape of the gas piston housing is unique to these barrels

 

National Ordnance

Alpine carbine distinctive low profile fore end

Alpine Carbine with cadmus stock ILLEGAL ( imagine a M1 carbine with an MP40 grip and under folding stock

Strateline carbine had a solid wooden stock with a pistolgrip similar in shape and ange to that of an M16A1 ( ONE illegal feature, still LEGAL) no bayonet lug

 

Universal Arms

Universal Model 30 had a completely different barrel Band called a "stock lock"

and after 1967 they completely changed the bolt and the recoil slide, amongst other things in fact a vast majority of parts would not be interchangable, and thus for all intents and purposes would prove to be a different weapon. so this one should be absolutely legal if none of the others are not. it's a completely different gun internally.

 

Legacy is also maknig a .22 caliber rifle called the M1-22 that uses a straight blowback operated system, once again proving to be a different weapon

 

anyways its 5:53 AM and i still need to finish studying psychology BS for my exam im wrapping it up here

Sources :http://www.m1carbinesinc.com/index.html

 

thoughts gentlemen?

[ADK1113 1]

Oh i also love how they put "Plainfield Machine Company Carbine" on the list of banned names....but it's a civilian Repro of an M1.

guess that means all the other companies are good to go =]

[GRIZ 3,369]

Plainfield Machine works was in Dunellen not middlesex -- I drive by the building everyday -- When I was a kid it was a Quick check -- Now it's a day care/nursery school

 

 

Thanks for the correction. I forget sometimes that the one corner of Middlesex...is actually Dunellen

 

let's see...what's wrong with this law. EVERYTHING. let's start with the fact that an "M1 carbine type" weapon system is completely NJ legal bare bones without any modification, and lets be honest there aren't too many semi auto rifles that can do that. gun owner knows..........the U.S. military, thus not being the same weapon in both name and practice.

by that logic this would make certain models of "civilian sporting rifles" NJ legal suchanyways its 5:53 AM and i still need to finish studying psychology BS for my exam im wrapping it up here

Sources :http://www.m1carbinesinc.com/index.html

 

thoughts gentlemen?

 

 

Oh i also love how they put "Plainfield Machine Company Carbine" on the list of banned names....but it's a civilian Repro of an M1.

guess that means all the other companies are good to go =]

 

Don't get me wrong. I don't support their idoicy but think I understand what they did (well maybe).

 

"M1 Carbine Type" is banned.

 

Don't mix apples and oranges. Don't take something from the banned by name list (M1 Carbine) and compare it to the "substantially identical" evil features list. In determining if a gun is legal in NJ one has nothing to do with the other.

 

The "M1 Carbine Type", not only covers GI, Plainfield, and Universal carbines (they are mentioned by name) but anything of similar design. For example they banned the AR15 by name. If they banned "AR15 type" there would be no ARs on the market made by anyone. A DPMS A-15 for example is not banned by name and doesn't have more than one evil feature. As I mentioned above, if its not on the list then you compare it to the substantially identical guidelines, never both. Its either on the list OR substantially identical.

[ADK1113 1]

half of the models i put up had a different name than "Carbine, M1 .30 cal" and had one evil feature( bayonet mount) and some didn't even have that!

example: the universal carbines after '67 were mechanically different weapons. they just look similar. God forbid i put a M1 carbine style furniture on a ruger 10/22...

and i don't see Universal on that list of banned names... unless it's changed again -__-

by their logic. most of these weapons are different in NAME and lack enough evil features to make it ban worthy ( not that any fire arms is truly ban worthy)

 

also I'm just super butthurt cus i had an M1 carbine that i had to sell to a friend when i moved back to NJ

[ADK1113 1]

to hell with it... they're both gas operated rotating bolts... im gjust gonna dress up a mini 14 into a carbine =]

[KpdPipes 388]

I believe they were banned after the riots in the 70's in plainfield and the manufactures wharhouses were looted

 

They were perfectly legal until 1991

[ADK1113 1]

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2013/04/25/citadel-m1-carbine-9mm/

[ECShooter 0]

The M1A is legal and has a detachable magazine and is a higher caliber with significantly more stopping power.

 

Some of this shtuff is absolutely senseless.

[ADK1113 1]

ECS

the mini 14 is as well with more stopping and so's the NJ legal AK and AR and a bunch of other semiautomatic sporting rifles. it's ridiculous how this beautiful piece of machinery  and history is deemed illegal specifically, even when in standard format it's completely jersey legal... if anything the M1 carbine is the poster child for a NJ legal gun, it's not some bad ass weapon

[Fred2 367]

ECS

the mini 14 is as well with more stopping and so's the NJ legal AK and AR and a bunch of other semiautomatic sporting rifles. it's ridiculous how this beautiful piece of machinery  and history is deemed illegal specifically, even when in standard format it's completely jersey legal... if anything the M1 carbine is the poster child for a NJ legal gun, it's not some bad ass weapon

That would make a cool LEGAL  NOT LEGAL poster that was going on in another thread

 

M1 Carbine   NOT LEGAL

 

AR Rifle        LEGAL

[djg0770 481]

That would make a cool LEGAL  NOT LEGAL poster that was going on in another thread

 

M1 Carbine   NOT LEGAL

 

AR Rifle        LEGAL

 

Actually a more effective photo would be the following:

 

AR-15 (illegal)                      DPMS XM-15 (legal) (both configured identically)

M-1 Carbine (illegal)            Ruger 10/22 w M-1 carbine like stock (legal)

etc

[Pythagoras 2]

Actually a more effective photo would be the following:

 

AR-15 (illegal)                      DPMS XM-15 (legal) (both configured identically)

M-1 Carbine (illegal)            Ruger 10/22 w M-1 carbine like stock (legal)

etc

Would love to see that

[average joe 5]

My son has one,  but he lives in Florida....a free state.